The find of a lifetime.

[marknewton]

In my book PB&J took advantage of her

So you keep saying, but you've not stated anything that supports that contention. When you buy models, do you pay more than the price being asked?

[jasperofzeal]

Do you remember what happened to me. Below is the link to something like this. The old lady still waves to me and we have since become friends. He will also cherish that moment forever as I surely will.

 

RIPPING OFF AN OLD LADY

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1/493716/ShowPost.aspx#493716

 

 

I must have missed this thread when you first posted it, but I'm glad you brought it up. I hope that others follow the same example you set forth.

[Anonymous]

TA462, you've got a real "bee in your bonnet" about this, and I'm buggered if I can see why. If the OP had deliberately lied to the woman, telling her the collection was worth little when he knew otherwise, then yes, that would be ripping her off.

But that's not what happened, is it? The woman set the price she wanted, without reference to the OP. He paid the price she was asking. Where's the rip-off?

And as for what happens once he's bought the models - they're his to do with whatever he chooses. He owns them now, not the woman. When you sell models to another person, you surrender control over them. If he chooses to sell them on eBore and make a motza on them, then he's legally and ethically free to do so.

(If this is really the way you think, I'd love to see how you behave at a auction or at a clearance sale...)

Mark.

[Anonymous]

C'mon, pretty soon this thread's gonna get locked, let's just quit arguing, OK? PB&J may or may not have cheated someone, depending on your point of view, but he posted and instantly people started insulting him, and over who was right and who was wrong, give him a break, OK?

I personally think the lady just wanted the stuff off her hands, if nobody would buy it it would just go in the dump. For all we know she was histerical and just wanted them gone, or something. 

[vsmith]

Sounds to me that you knowingly ripped off the old lady.  To be honest I really don't think thats right.  You buy the stuff and now you have plans to sell it and make a ton of money from it?  Did you think that maybe she sold it to you cheap because she wanted it to go to a good home?  Do you really think that she would have sold it to you cheap knowing that you were going to sell it on Ebay or wherever?  What comes around goes around, remember that!!!

I've seen a few model railroaders pass away over the last few years and the poor wives don't have a clue on what to do with their husbands trains.  I bet they turn over in their graves knowing that people rip off their wives just to make a quick buck.

Wow thats a little harse, he DID suggest they talk to a LHS or auctioneer to get a rough value, and he waited a WEEK for THEM to take action, they didnt, they insteads AGAIN offered it to him, sounds to me like they didnt want to be bothered to do that extra work. Maybe they just wanted the stuff out of there regardless and were just happy to have someone clear out what they considered worthless junk that was the source of marital strife, or maybe, just maybe they wanted it to go to a good home. Not an uncommon sentiment, value is relative, not everyone thinks with their pocketbook, have you ever donate anything to Goodwill or Salvation Army or do you only sell it to the highest bidder? It might have been better to them knowing someone who really appreciate their loved ones stuff was going to have it and take good care of it instead of trying to squeeze as much blood out of the turnip as they could.

If you have a puppy that needs a home who would you sell it to, the poor family who can only give you $50 but will love it and make a member of their family, or sell it to the junk yard owner for $500 who will likely abuse it and treat it more like a peice of property than a companion?

[Phoebe Vet]

I have to admit that I was disappointed to find that PB&J didn't stand for peanut butter and jelly............

[inch53]

I'm on PB&J side on this in doing nothing wrong. He advised them to get guess-staments, and then they bartered a deal. Both got what they believe a good deal.

Even if he sales part of it. It will still go to some one who's into trains.

I've bought trains at estate auctions for 5 cent or less, on the dollar of swap meet value and I'm sure the sellers got a better deal than that. I see very little, if any difference here.

[Anonymous]

Well...Hopefully SOMEBODY will put them to good use instead ending up in a landfill.

I shudder to think sometimes at all the amazing stuff that's sitting in the bottom of our landfills.

 

Regarding PB&J, he did mention that he advised the seller to consult local hobby shops and auction houses for advice on pricing.

As well, speaking from experience, when having to get rid of the posessions of a loved one that has passed, sometimes it is worth letting things go for a deep discount, just to get rid of some their stuff. 

[dinwitty]

Carey, nope you did not rip anybody off, PB&J on the other hand did.  The lady's daughter approached PB&J knowing he was a model railroader.  She figured he could help out her mother.  Lets be honest here, if anybody here, god forbid passed away today and your wife somehow got suckered into selling your 20000 dollar train collection for 1000 bucks how would you feel?  PB&J took advantage of a old lady and her daughter who she trusted to do the right thing.  Then for PB&J to come on here and boast about selling all the stuff she basically gave him because she knew he was a model railroader and who she thought would put the stuff to good use.  That turns my stomach knowing there is people out there that would take advantage of someone because she thought she was doing something nice.  This happens more and more everyday and just goes to show what type of world we all live in.  Buying something cheap off Ebay or at an auction somewhere, even a yard sale is ok but to take advantage of someone that trusted you is wrong.  What goes around comes around and PB&J will have nobody to blame but himself.  If he was any type of decent person he would sell the stuff, like he said he was going to and give the lady the money she deserves. 

 

You've said your peace, agree to disagree and move on.

I recently bought an Akane DM&IR 2-8-8-4 off ebay, the model when new may have sold for maybe 80 bucks, thats 1960's prices. A brand new model recently released goes over $1000.

On ebay the buyers drive the price up and the seller may have started the price at 99 cents. I bought it at almost 500 bucks. The seller should be a happy camper, and I am, as it was a buy of the lifetime for me.

Are the parties happy or satisfied now, prolly yes. But we do have one unhappy camper here not involves with the sale. Thats the way it ends.

Cheers

 

(or uncheer...8-P  ) 

 

[Anonymous]

We are probably going to run into more and more of these problems as train owners pass on in the years to come. What happens when I pass on leaving behind all the wonderful DCC and sound stuff along with lots of other items? My spouse or estate executor already has a envelope at the funeral home containing my instructions. Certain family members will recieve these items without consideration to thier value.

That way I know that if I drop dead right now, the awful train stuff that my spouse sees as taking up space will be taken care of directly without issue.

That Friends, is the best you can do for your family, especially those who dont care about your train stuff.

By the way I know that the future owners of this stuff will use them the way they are intended to for a few years at least or make transfer to someone else who will. Trains are to be played with and enjoyed. Not shipped to the dump or stacked in sad boxes up the in the damp attic or stacked behind glass to be enjoyed by only one or two people over a decade.

[loathar]

Well...Hopefully SOMEBODY will put them to good use instead ending up in a landfill.

[marknewton]

TA462, you've got a real "bee in your bonnet" about this, and I'm buggered if I can see why. If the OP had deliberately lied to the woman, telling her the collection was worth little when he knew otherwise, then yes, that would be ripping her off.

But that's not what happened, is it? The woman set the price she wanted, without reference to the OP. He paid the price she was asking. Where's the rip-off?

And as for what happens once he's bought the models - they're his to do with whatever he chooses. He owns them now, not the woman. When you sell models to another person, you surrender control over them. If he chooses to sell them on eBore and make a motza on them, then he's legally and ethically free to do so.

(If this is really the way you think, I'd love to see how you behave at a auction or at a clearance sale...)

Mark.

[Anonymous]

I have ran into this same situation.I am an HVAC contractor and a woman asked me to look at her husbands collection.It was old Tyco and Bachmann junk,N scale and HO scale.There was one Atlas N scale engine and a few Minitrix items.Basically old 1970s stuff with no value.There was some old Lionel template that I told her to keep and sell.I would not take the valuable items at the price she wanted for the stuff.It basically took me more time to haul the junk out of there than any money I made on any of it.I kept some of the buildings and a few odds and ends.The rest was junk track.Did I cheat her?No.I told her to keep anything that would be any value,I was totally honest with her.Would I have done what PBJ did?,NO.Brass locos are valuable.I will no longer take any old Tyco/Bachmann 1970s stuff home because it is more BS to deal with than it is worth.Dan

[SteamFreak]

Ever watch Antiques Roadshow?  How many people have found that their $10 or $15 yard sale/thrift shop/church sale item is worth $thousands!!  Whoever priced it charged whatever he or she thought it was worth - and I don't recall anyone saying they were going to return the item to the seller!

Ya know...The more I watch that show, the more I think it's fake or rigged. They'll appraise some diamond encrusted, hand made solid gold trinket for $500 and then turn around call some old corn whiskey jug "folk art" and say it's worth $50,000!! I bet the appraisers get together after the show and have a good laugh.

Has the $5,100 Lionel box taught you nothing about the collectibles market? They don't have to rig ARS, because the truth is often stranger than any fiction. (I still have visions of the winning bidders' spouse cutting up that carton and putting it at the curb with the recycling. )

The super at my apartment complex recently told me that he had trunks of HO equipment that belonged to his late father, so I asked if I could have a look. It was all Tyco, AHM, and Bachmann locos, cars, and kits, Life Like trees, BRASS track (), most new in their boxes. Not even any Rivarossi. I gave him $10 for a pair of mint old-time coaches, and an old Varney all-metal piggyback. I told him he could probably make a decent amount eBaying it, but he doesn't want to bother. I recommended he take it to the LHS, because the owner sells collections on consignment. Apparently his dad bought all of that stuff and never ran it. Anybody looking for some mint AHM C-Liners, just PM me.

 

[cjcrescent]

TA462

I saw this sign in a newspaper ad when I lived in Mobile, Al. 20 years ago.

For Sale

Various Model Railroad Equipment and Tools

ContactXXXXXXXX

I contacted the person who placed the ad and it was an older gentleman (65), who said he had bought this equipment several years before but never did anything with it. All of the kits were unbuilt. There were 8 Campbell structure kits, 10 Ambroid 1 of 5000 kits, 3 MDC engine kits, (0-6-0, 2-6-2, 4-4-2) plus 20 MDC cars, 30 Athearn BB kits, 200 pieces of Atlas flex, (Code 100), 20 Atlas #6 turnouts, 4 MRC power packs, and a ALCO Models brass RS-11, and several other kits, and several boxes of pieces/parts and odds & ends,(screws, detail parts, jewlers files, screwdrivers, pliers, pin vises, drills, etc).

Each box still had the original prices on them and he had an itemized list with what he paid for them. Their total value was well over $1500.00! And they were all new in the boxes and other than to look at them, stayed that way.

I asked what did he want for them. He asked me if I was a model railroader and could I prove it. I showed him my NMRA card. Now here's the shocker. For you, because you are a model railroader, $200.00! I had him come with me to the bank, where I withdrew $400 from my savings account and put the money in his hands. He gave me back the extra $200! He said no, $200 was what I asked for not more.

Now, he knew fully what he had paid for the items, he also knew he would never do anything with them for whatever reason. He said he was more concerned that they go to someone who could really use the items and they would not wind up damaged, forgotten, or worse, thrown into the local landfill. He said that with me being a model railroader, that I would use his trains as they were meant to be used, and not go to waste. That he said was going to be the greatest satisfaction he would get from the sale.

I tried hard to get him to keep the extra $200 that I took out of the bank. He refused it and said no that was his asking price and not a penny more. 

So, now the question is, did I "knowingly" rip him off or, like PB&J, stumble onto basically "a find of a lifetime"???

[dinwitty]

Ever watch Antiques Roadshow?  How many people have found that their $10 or $15 yard sale/thrift shop/church sale item is worth $thousands!!  Whoever priced it charged whatever he or she thought it was worth - and I don't recall anyone saying they were going to return the item to the seller!

Ya know...The more I watch that show, the more I think it's fake or rigged. They'll appraise some diamond encrusted, hand made solid gold trinket for $500 and then turn around call some old corn whiskey jug "folk art" and say it's worth $50,000!! I bet the appraisers get together after the show and have a good laugh.

I'd rather see the OP sell the stuff to someone that's going to use it then have it end up in a dumpster. I try and tell my family what my train stuffs worth in case anything happens to me, but I know they don't care and it would all end up in the dump.(my family sucks!)

I've seen that show and they basically they refer to auction block prices that someone paid for a similar item.  Rather relative but a lot of the items are rare and do bring in a certain money amount upon sale. If the owner and appraiser are familiar with the item, they then know the rarity of the item and find an apparent value.

 I know first hand what it means to tear up a huge club layout that you diligently worked hard on. Maybe you could put a money value on the layout, but thats for naught, the hobby enjoyment is the thing. The club now has a new place and a new layout, some old stuff used, but a lot not.

A couple of years ago a lady was at a train show and selling off her husbands stuff, a 4-12-2 for sale at 50 bucks. I almost bought it but it needed some side rod linkage work, hard to find parts for. I passed it up. I looked for it again and someone bought it.  heh.

The seller ladyhere should feel content that her husband's stuff was going the right direction, I would have done the same thing.

 

 

[tatans]

This is a continuing story: Time after time we hear of the massive layout that ends up in the dump(more than you can imagine) This lot would be in the dump now, your smartest  move was to have an outside appraisal, would like to see it on a layout, but selling it is O.K.

[loathar]

Ever watch Antiques Roadshow?  How many people have found that their $10 or $15 yard sale/thrift shop/church sale item is worth $thousands!!  Whoever priced it charged whatever he or she thought it was worth - and I don't recall anyone saying they were going to return the item to the seller!

Ya know...The more I watch that show, the more I think it's fake or rigged. They'll appraise some diamond encrusted, hand made solid gold trinket for $500 and then turn around call some old corn whiskey jug "folk art" and say it's worth $50,000!! I bet the appraisers get together after the show and have a good laugh.

I'd rather see the OP sell the stuff to someone that's going to use it then have it end up in a dumpster. I try and tell my family what my train stuffs worth in case anything happens to me, but I know they don't care and it would all end up in the dump.(my family sucks!)

[lvanhen]

Ever watch Antiques Roadshow?  How many people have found that their $10 or $15 yard sale/thrift shop/church sale item is worth $thousands!!  Whoever priced it charged whatever he or she thought it was worth - and I don't recall anyone saying they were going to return the item to the seller!

[Anonymous]

No it isnt. If I stumbled across a ramshackle yard sale filled with toys and baby clothes for .25 cents each and discovered a mint Brass engine with a MSRP of 1300 dollars with a 10 dollar price sticker on it...

Im going to keep my big mouth shut, buy the engine and go home with it. As long as the price is on that item .01 or 1000 dollars.... and it's paid to the satisfaction of the seller the deed is done and I am the new owner.

That is how it is. It isnt about the value, pricing or any of that. Im totally focused on the completion of the transaction itself and if necessary transferring ownership, liens and taxes etc.

One of the saddest things I can tell you in the hobby is to see a dumpster truck haul away someone's life and 50+ years worth of modeling straight to the dump because it is of no use to the surviving family.

If this is enough to open a Store with sufficient inventory? Why! This is the American way. Commerce and oppertunity! Online or Brick and mortor.

[PA&ERR]

It is not the job of the buyer to make sure the seller knows the real value of what they are selling. 

George

[dinwitty]

He was approached by someone who knew he was a model railroader of a widow wanting to sell the trains. He has not revealed any price or value of the collection. Whats valued is the collection is preserved than finding its way to a dump. He could ask to bonus any more money but the widow could refuse and say the deal is good. He went out of his way to reccomend the widow to appraise the value and she did and came down with a price. I think he was shocked with the price and maybe expected to pay more. He didnt have to, the deal is done.

 

The widow could have just donated the stuff to charity, but she wanted them to go the right way. She couldn't care or deal with the hobby apparently so it may have been better for her to give up the collection in the best way possible.

 

[dinwitty]

welcome to my world, i scrap trucks and other items under contract for the US Navy, i have our 5 acre dream property turned into a bone yard!! she just doesnt understand!!!  hey steels paying eight cents a pound here!! i just cant seem to get rid of alota stuff as i find it all intersting  Ryan

outdoor live steam

[PB&J RR]

I believe this has nothing to do with anything posted here and that you are trying to bait me... I don't participate in that nonsense, there is more to my life than these forums. You have stated your opintion and you are entitled to it. I will make no further posts on this thread and will encourage other's not to do so. We have enough trouble with angry opinion her without baiting. Good day. 

[PB&J RR]

I don't believe I ripped anyone off. I paid what was asked and didn't have anything to do with setting the price.

[PB&J RR]

Thanks Guys. My wife and I have been discussing this, and she is a lot more supportive than I originally thought. We are going to do a complete, competent inventory and put it all in a spreadsheet with book and comp. retail values. this way I will not only know what's their, but its approximated value.

I have always wanted to open a hobby shop, and this could be the golden incentive- I could easily net the capital for initial orders from a couple of the big distributors...

Now is not the time, but a kiosk in the mall at Christmas could be- though I would rather die than spend a moment of my time in the mall. I know where there is a decent retail spot recently emptied... I fill notebooks with these gold nuggets and never act on them. But now, I have the opportunity and I need structure it right.

[wrconstruction]

welcome to my world, i scrap trucks and other items under contract for the US Navy, i have our 5 acre dream property turned into a bone yard!! she just doesnt understand!!!  hey steels paying eight cents a pound here!! i just cant seem to get rid of alota stuff as i find it all intersting  Ryan

[loathar]

Great deal!!! I never luck into stuff like that.
You mentioned paper work...If you have any diagrams of rare  or odd equipment, you may want to scan them and E-mail them to HO Seeker for their online library so all can benefit from your good fortune.

[Heartland Division CB&Q]

I love stories like that.  Tell us: was the end of a rainbow nearby?