Hey all,
I was just looking at the BLI SD7 and wondering...any of you have these engines in DCC? Do you like? Does the sound work well with DCC? Just wondering... well, I look foward to your responses!
Brian
Wellllll...
Onboard sound moves with the train...and it comes on automatically as soon as the engine powers up, but...
...when I want good sound, I take the extra time to fire up the PC and run 44k, 16 bit digital sound through a THX system, and at that point, it sounds so sad I just turn it off.
Until the manufacturers catch up to 21st century technology, the temporary fix is...well...just a temporary fix.
ShadowNix wrote: Hey all,I was just looking at the BLI SD7 and wondering...any of you have these engines in DCC? Do you like? Does the sound work well with DCC? Just wondering... well, I look foward to your responses!Brian
Brian,
Are you refering to BLI's new proprietary sound or their classic QSI sound? This is important to know.
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
jeffers_mz wrote: Wellllll... Onboard sound moves with the train...and it comes on automatically as soon as the engine powers up, but......when I want good sound, I take the extra time to fire up the PC and run 44k, 16 bit digital sound through a THX system, and at that point, it sounds so sad I just turn it off.Until the manufacturers catch up to 21st century technology, the temporary fix is...well...just a temporary fix.
Wellllll... Onboard sound moves with the train...and it comes on automatically as soon as the engine powers up, but...
It's the Speakers man, the speakers. The newest thing in loudspeakers since 1915 is a BOSE 's angled speaker bouncing off the corner, Sad.
Even SOTA Electrostats ($$$) were invented by Bell Labs, back then. Electronics alone cannot move air.
The lowest frquency an HO car can put out is about 500 Hz, Lower freq. information just adds distortion and robs the amplifier of power.
WHY would any software provider offer any?
For that matter, Studio Condensor Mic's don't record well out of doors - wind socks and all. Cardiodes have an inherent problem that Omni's do not..
Your Monoblocks and Holman THX cant produce any information it isn't fed.
I am referring to the installed sound that comes with a new BLI SD-7.... I hope this helps.
Don Gibson wrote: jeffers_mz wrote: Wellllll... Onboard sound moves with the train...and it comes on automatically as soon as the engine powers up, but......when I want good sound, I take the extra time to fire up the PC and run 44k, 16 bit digital sound through a THX system, and at that point, it sounds so sad I just turn it off.Until the manufacturers catch up to 21st century technology, the temporary fix is...well...just a temporary fix.It's the Speakers man, the speakers. The newest thing in loudspeakers since 1915 is a BOSE 's angled speaker bouncing off the corner, Sad.Even SOTA Electrostats ($$$) were invented by Bell Labs, back then. Electronics alone cannot move air.The lowest frquency an HO car can put out is about 500 Hz, Lower freq. information just adds distortion and robs the amplifier of power. WHY would any software provider offer any? For that matter, Studio Condensor Mic's don't record well out of doors - wind socks and all. Cardiodes have an inherent problem that Omni's do not..Your Monoblocks and Holman THX cant produce any information it isn't fed.
Point taken, but not set in stone.
First off, mikes, like any other equipment in the audio chain, do not shelve at their minimum frequencies, they roll off gradually, some steeper, some shallower. Two stages of EQ are more than adequate in replacing most of the original spectra.
I have yet to begin capturing my own samples in the wild, but the largest problem I have with begged, borrowed or otherwise available samples isn't mike rolloff, it's the muffling systems in place on modern equipment.
Older diesels seem to make it to recording media very well, in the empirical world anyway, regardless of any theoretical constraint. Many samples are ruined at CPA, by clipping, or by noticable compression, limiting, or even manual attenuation, but some do manage to capture decent recordings, and these flat sparkle.
I will apologize if my earlier comments tend to dismiss onboard sound, but the technology for much better is available, has been for a long time, the market is clearly established, and for reasons unknown, the manufacturers seem complacent in offering us audio garbage, with no apparant sign of intent to join the 21st century in the forseeable future. It is frustrating to have to cobble together decent sound from components designed with other applications in mind, but until the industry gets...motivated...that is our only choice if we want even mediocre audio.
I am rapidly approaching, or have passed a brick wall when it comes to price to value ratios inherent in today's MR offerings. Junk couplers, obviously out of gauge track and axles, negligible or non-existent quality control, have all convinced me to stick with the acquired base already in my possession, and cut to zero additional expenditures in this hobby until and unless these matters are addressed.
I think the main reason we're paying high dollars for junk is because we make it clear to the purveyors of same that we are willing to be fleeced. What others do is up to them, but my course of action is established.
I pay extra for quality, but I pay nothing for lower standards. There are plenty of hobbies where my money comes back to me in enjoyment, no shortage at all. I think MR is headed rapidly off a cliff, and the freefall has already begun.
There is opportunity here. This industry clearly understands the massive market for MR supplies. Any manufacturer, or even distributor, willing to take the simple common sense action of installing Kadee couplers and bumping MSRP less then 1% can capture huge segments of the market, and force the others to step up to the plate as well.
When and if that process begins, my money comes back on the table.
Jeff,
I'm fascinated by sound but am neither an audio or electronics expert. But please, explain what you mean specifically by your comment:................
..............but the technology for much better is available, has been for a long time, the market is clearly established, and for reasons unknown, the manufacturers seem complacent in offering us audio garbage.....................
Except for MRC ( ) I honestly thought that the current DCC/Sound manufacturers were doing the very best that they could, and were using the most currently available technology.
If better materials are available then I wonder why they are not taking full advantage of it. Is it high costs? What is available and how can sound be greatly improved with the available technology?
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
I have tried to be as quiet as possible with this question.
Back in the days of long ago, BLI had QSI sound. It was the greatest thing. Now they have this... **waves dismissively.. this thing called blueline. I never did like it. Take it or leave it at that.
Now, when you get to talking about a new engine like the SD7... do I want to get the Proto engine which I KNOW is QSI and something I understand and learning more of every week?
Or do I risk the same money for something that might either be QSI? Blueline? Or Loksound?
If I dont know for certain exactly what I will be getting with the SD7, most certainly I will not address that issue and stick with what is fact and availible with QSI and that is Proto for the moment.
There are times I refrain from considering a product because of confusion and uncertainty about items. Life and money is too short to be wasted on something that may or may not work. It is one thing to send a engine back to the factory and the BLI folks are absolutely wonderful with customer service. But, when one considers a new engine like the SD7 that is now availible from several manufactors, the choices are there to choose the one that I understand best.
Ive said enough.
Well, I'll try and keep my response as simple as the question.
I have 5 sound equipped engines, 4 of the them are Broadway's and 1 Atlas. 2 Hudsons, 1 Cab Forward, 1 SW7 and 1 Atlas U-23. All of them though run the QSI sound system. I love them. I run the NCE PowerCab DCC system which allows me use all the sound functions. They have been easy to program and very durable. Compared to some of the other systems I have heard, the QSI's are usually pretty darn good.
The horn, bell, engine noises, brake squeal, are all great. Of all the engines I have heard from BLI, and I have heard just about all of them, I have been impressed. My units range from 1-3 years old.
For what's its worth, I have been so happy with the overall performance of the QSI system's, (what Broadway Limited runs) with the balance of sound/price/user freindly/durbality it has become the sound system I prefer and will purchase with all my other models.
Best Regards, Big John
Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway
SOUND facts - to be taken lightly or dismissed.
Sound (for models) is mostly syntheised.
Early diesels existed before tape recorders.
Steeam disappeared around 1955
1" speakers do not move air much below 500 cycles.
Concert A (440) is in the middle of the piano, not at the bass end.
RR locos don't fit into Recording studios.
canazar wrote: For what's its worth, I have been so happy with the overall performance of the QSI system's, (what Broadway Limited runs) with the balance of sound/price/user freindly/durbality it has become the sound system I prefer and will purchase with all my other models.
Amen, I share the same feeling.
I love my QSI-equipped BLI SD40-2s and can't wait to upgrade the chips in them. I recently learned since posting my thread that the upgrade chip has a more prototypical sounding 645E prime mover and turbo sound as well as two horn types to choose from. Also improved are the slow speed operational characteristics. But the thing I like best about QSI decoders is (R)egulated (T)hrottle (C)ontrol which until the upgrade chip only worked on DC. QSI is the only one with RTC. I have DC at home and I use a Quantum Engineer controller, my locos are always in RTC when I'm at home. This is the coolest feature that a sound equipped loco can have, in my opinion and if you don't know what it is then you don't know what you're missing.
Any new loco I buy will be QSI equipped because otherwise if I want to run consists, I'd have to run my BLI's in (S)tandard (T)hrottle (C)ontrol in order to speed match them with locos equipped with a different decoder type.
I'm not too crazy about BLI's new Blueline SD40-2, the horn sounds pretty weak and it doesn't seem to compound sounds that well either especially the horn and motor. I can't speak for any other Blueline models because I haven't heard them. I have heard the AC6000 and it sounds just lke a GE and the horn is pretty good too. But, since they don't have RTC I wont buy them.
I'm still a little miffed that BLI dropped QSI in favor for their own system, but I understand that it was a business decision they felt they had to make and I'm sure that it will serve them well. I'm just glad that QSI is still equipped in Atlas and Life-Like locos and doubt that either of the two companies will break away from QSI any time soon. Any new diesel locos that I buy in the future will be one of these.
I've quite a few sound engines, mostly ESU but I've a few LifeLike engines.
My latest:
at the Jct. F 7
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
Hmmm so it seems most people have opinions that the QSI version rocks, but the Blueline version is an unknown? Anyone have the new NON-QSI ones that can give us a good comparison??? Just wondering...
I have two of the Blueline SD7- They are great runner, no problems there and the sound are as good pr as bad as on any other small diesel. The only thing I do not like about them is the problems with having two decoders in the same engine. But for the price it is absolutely cheap in my mind. Get one, I think you won't be dissapointed.
I'm going to get two of the PCM numbers and one Proto2000 so that I can compare.
Magnus
My BLI B&O NW Switchers *There are two.. 9550 and 9512 are QSI version 7 running under manual 4.1 These chips are the best QSI can put in. RTC is how these two runs together all the time and they speed match each other perfectly after a few moments.
Ive had to place my E7 Passenger units under the older QSI Version 6 chips with 3.1 manual into Standard throttle control so that each engine's identical machanisms work together to maintain the same work effort minus the occasional track dirt or gap. I could upgrade these E7's AGAIN to version 7 chips and use the RTC and am thinking on it.
Keep in mind BLI dropped the QSI in favor of thier new Blueline. You probably can get earlier BLI engines with QSI from previous runs.
I must reinforce that PCM is usually LOKsound. The main difference to me was that loksound had a tape of a sort and played it's own length. You could not "Play" the horn and get a true "Short toot" as you could with the QSI.
There are other non QSI sound units out there, like MRC of Athearn/Roundhouse fame. It is my firm opinion that MRC should stay away from making decoders. No matter what you do with CV's to one extreme or the other the unit would stop like a brick wall or start like a horse slapped with a hot brand iron.
I still retain my video of the Roundhouse MRC for your viewing pleasure if you would like I can upload it again along with the BLI NW's.
Sound is wonderful but keep in mind that sometimes having three sets of desiels idling (With what? 9-12 seperate individual engines?) away in the new yard is very much the nap-inducing lullaby to a old driver like me. So the sound is off once in a while =)
Lillen wrote: I have two of the Blueline SD7- They are great runner, no problems there and the sound are as good pr as bad as on any other small diesel. The only thing I do not like about them is the problems with having two decoders in the same engine. But for the price it is absolutely cheap in my mind. Get one, I think you won't be dissapointed. I'm going to get two of the PCM numbers and one Proto2000 so that I can compare. Magnus
Magnus,
By 2 decoders one engine...how does this work with sound? Do you have to switch from the DCC engine decoder to the sound decoder to run the sound effects? Or do they link so you can just hit whistle or bell (or other sound) while running the Train as per usual....
ShadowNix wrote: Lillen wrote: I have two of the Blueline SD7- They are great runner, no problems there and the sound are as good pr as bad as on any other small diesel. The only thing I do not like about them is the problems with having two decoders in the same engine. But for the price it is absolutely cheap in my mind. Get one, I think you won't be dissapointed. I'm going to get two of the PCM numbers and one Proto2000 so that I can compare. MagnusMagnus,By 2 decoders one engine...how does this work with sound? Do you have to switch from the DCC engine decoder to the sound decoder to run the sound effects? Or do they link so you can just hit whistle or bell (or other sound) while running the Train as per usual....Brian
I believe you program them to the same adress and presto... It works.
Hoople wrote: I believe you program them to the same adress and presto... It works.
Correctamundo. I believe the issue here is getting both decoders to fit under the hood.
Blueline (non-QSI) locos comes equipped with a sound only decoder and requires a function decoder added in order to run on DCC. What you end up with is a loco with two decoders, one for sound and another for function. QSI equipped locos don't require the need for second decoder unless you wish to add additional functions like ditch lights, mars light or a beacon which the QSI decoder may not support.
Hoople wrote: ShadowNix wrote: Lillen wrote: I have two of the Blueline SD7- They are great runner, no problems there and the sound are as good pr as bad as on any other small diesel. The only thing I do not like about them is the problems with having two decoders in the same engine. But for the price it is absolutely cheap in my mind. Get one, I think you won't be dissapointed. I'm going to get two of the PCM numbers and one Proto2000 so that I can compare. MagnusMagnus,By 2 decoders one engine...how does this work with sound? Do you have to switch from the DCC engine decoder to the sound decoder to run the sound effects? Or do they link so you can just hit whistle or bell (or other sound) while running the Train as per usual....BrianI believe you program them to the same adress and presto... It works.
In theory this is it how it's suppose to be. But it is not quite so easy. There isn't a problem fitting the decoder. There is plenty of space.
Look here how to program the double decoders. It should be no problem:
http://precisioncraftmodels.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1