work starts sunday!

[johnnyx]

OK OK... so this is the weekend I begin building the benchwork for my basement layout.  Only problem is "IM SCARED TO DEATH"  this is my first ever layout and i have a whole basement to work with.  Im wondering if 1. Am I rushing it ( i hear about ppl taking years to come up with a good concept and executing it).  2. do I have a good design... looks good on paper, but will it tranfer to the real thing ok.  UGH... I feel lost when i think about all the questions I have.    Thanks for listening...

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Keep calm. There are only three things to remember. When starting out, keep it simple, take your time and have fun.

Start out with a simple plan for your benchwork. It doesn't have to be complex and able to pass muster with NASA. It only has to be strong enough to support your layout and possibly you. Take your time at it and make sure everything is done correctly. That way you won't have to go back and redo something. Have fun. Don't work on it for so long that it begins to become dull.

My father helped me build my first layout in 1966. Since then, I've built all my layouts myself. The first one I did solo had me scared. What if I made a mistake? My grandfather gave me the three essential rules I outlined above and made sure I followed them. After the first two days, the layout building went along without a hitch.

[johnnyx]

yeah my father is also coming down to help on this layout.. he is a big train nut himself, so it should be fun.  thanks for the kind words! 

[reklein]

Be Careful, don't mess it up!!! NO! relax and have fun with it. Any mistakes you make will make you smarter and you'll gain experience. Even John Allen tore out a couple layouts before he satisfied himself.

[GraniteRailroader]

You can always post your layout up here for feedback overnight...

Nothing says you can't always modify your bench work a bit either.  

[johnnyx]

You can always post your layout up here for feedback overnight...

Nothing says you can't always modify your bench work a bit either.  

 

 

very good point, ill see what i can do as far as getting a pic up tonight. 

[ARTHILL]

Have fun. No matter how many you have done or how long you plan, you always change some things, so start, have fun and adjust as you go.  Build with screws, not glue or nails and changing is easy and fun.

Post some pics and we can all celebrate with you.

[HHPATH56]

You should not even start to build the layout before you decide whether it is to be "point-to-point-prototype", "an island,with penninsulas", or an "around the room layout with penninsulas". I had a 24'x24' unobstructed loft space, with inside stairway, (which really simpified visual and movement logistics).  But don't be afraid to consider a liftout access, if necessary.  I had a preplanned drawing of what my final "around the room" DCC layout would look like, but started with a simple dog-bone, with (double reverse) loops, at each end.  I inserted insulated switch spurs, in anticipation of future expansion. The dogbone, then became a large G , and then I finally added a reverse inverted mirror G, to complete the "around the room layout".  Before you begin to construct the framework, I suggest that you complete any acoustic ceiling tiling ,lighting. Prior to installing ceiling tiles or wall background, be sure to install wiring and outlets. I happened to have some old dressers, that (with legs sawed off, were of the proper height, for strong support and storage space. Be sure to plan for "above and below" layout top reachable access", to all your planned tracks and scenery. I have four holes with lift-outs, in the center of large peninsulas.  If you are considering DCC, be sure that all reverse loops and wyes, are properly isolated and wired. If I could have afforded it, I would have gone for radio-controlled DCC. It is the "way" of future model railroading. But, start out with dividing your layout into blocks,(power districts). Be sure that every section of track is wired, by feeders, to the "main bus wires".  Hopefully, these few ideas will give you confidence, and help to prevent costly and time consuming mistakes.

[johnnyx]

Well i know its a around the room type layout, with DCC.  I have the digitrax empire builder setup.  The basement is finished so all my lighting is done.  Unfortunatly there are closets I need to get to so it wont be "true" around the room , but it will be about 24x13.  all in all it will have 37 turnouts, a engine yard(with deadlines) A RIP track, turntable, ect.... 2 mainlines and a few shortlines mixed in.  There will be a lower level for storage and fast clock situations.  Things that scare me.....  wiring, "what the heck is bus wires" , power districts, switch boards.... UGH!!!  But im not gonna get into that just yet!!!  lemme get the benchwork done..

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Pretty ambitious for a first layout. I hope all goes well.

[ARTHILL]

One step at a time. You can learn each step as you go. Nothing is easier than wiring DCC. Get the table up, and lay some track. Read the directions with the EB and run some trains back and forth. Do a little, play a little. See what turns you on, and do that the most. All will fall into place if you like the hobby at all.

[twcenterprises]

....with DCC.  I have the Digitrax Empire Builder setup.....  Things that scare me.....  wiring, "what the heck is bus wires" , power districts, switch boards....

With DCC, you don't really need power districts, switch boards, and, well I guess you *DO* need the bus wires.  With DCC, it's pretty straightforward, 2 wires from the DCC module to the rails.

OK, maybe with a larger layout you *might* need power districts, but those things come with time.  For now, just concentrate on getting the benchwork built, and the track laid, by then you should have enough confidence to do the wiring no problem.  Besides, the forum members are here to help if you need us.  What's the worst you can do, create a short circuit?

Brad 

[da_kraut]

Hi Johnnyx,

I can understand your fear of this project.  At work my job is electrical foreman in construction where the company gives me the drawings and then says to go and wire the place up.  When looking at the overal project it looks quite overwhelming but when broken down into individual parts it is manageable. 

So now you are starting on the benchwork.  Think it through carefully as to how you are going to construct it, start in one area and slowly work yourself along.  It is amazing how much easier it is taking the project one step at a time and worrying about anything will not change the situation.

Have fun and go for it.

Frank 

[SpaceMouse]

Johnny,

I'm starting a basement layout as well. But I decided not to build everything at once. I took one corner and am building a smaller complete layout with expansion in mind. This is for a lot of reasons. I know that to operate a big layout I will need lots of engines and rolling stock. The corner layout I am building will take about 15-20 engines and a couple hundred pieces of rolling stock and 40 turnouts, so I am starting smaller, just to get things running and having fun with it. Once I have that working, I am going to expand. It will also give me practice to see how to do some of the more difficult things I want to accomplish--to take it near completion. I can then add extensions as I need/want them.

Here's the corner plan.

 

This in itself will take 2-3 years to build because know that buildings take me 2-6 weeks depending on how I want them to look. I know that each figure takes me 30-minutes to 4 hours to make. I know that building a wagon will take me 3 days.

Once I get the first area to something I want to be proud of, I will make another section to be proud of. In 10-15 years it will be complete, but I will be running pretty sophisticated ops in one year. I don't want to take 5 years to get started running because my kids will be gone by then.  

A good book to look at is Mid-sized and Manageable Track Plans by Iain Rice. In the first several chapters he talks about balancing time/space/money to something that you can work with and get maximum enjoyment. I took that to heart.

 

[Dave Vollmer]

Johnny,

Before you jump into wiring, I suggest you get a beginner DCC book at your LHS.  I did before I started with DCC and it was a great help.  Kalmbach has one that's decent.  Digitrax also has one.  There should be some wiring info with your DCC set also.

Many folks would advise that your first layout should be a small one to ensure you have the chance to finish it before you become overwhelmed and/or bored with construction.  But, I'm not going to suggest you stop what you're doing and build a 4x8...  Instead, I'll second Chip's advice, and recommend you build it in sections. 

You'll probably need to get the benchwork and at least the mainline done up front so that you can start running trains.  But once your main and benchwork, along with the basic wiring is done, you may want to take your time and complete one area at a time.  Add the sidings, scenery, structures, etc. for one town, and then move on to the next.  Just a thought.  That way you'd always have at least one finished area to enjoy and to sare with visitors.  That's how I plan to build the "big one" someday, but for now I have to be content with a 36"x80" hollow-core door layout.

Best of luck, and remember...  It's a hobby!

[HHPATH56]

[HHPATH56]

This is the latest version of my 24'x24' Garage Loft Railroad. The point that all of us want to stress, is that you don't start with even benchwork for your: Dream-Plan-Build layourt. As stated before, this layout started out as a DC block railroad, that was merely a long dog-bone, which eventually became the DCC layout in the diagram.  I knew exactly what I wanted my final verson would include. It would include two towns, two rail yards, two harbors, and about 96 electrically controlled turnouts, and at least 6 reverse loops and wyes,(divided between 4 tethered DCC power districts)   The idea of this layout was to provide as many different routes of travel as possible to accomodate drop-offs and pick-ups at the many local industries on the layout, and industries beyond the boundries of the layout.  Prototypically, the convolutions of the 240 yards of trackage would be impractical. But, for a model railroad, it is operationally a challenge,and a lot of fun! 

[MisterBeasley]

Great!  You have overcome "analysis paralysis," that affliction where you spend all your time reading and planning, but can't seem to get started.  You'll find that once you start cutting wood, things will just kind of take on a life of their own.  Yes, there will be changes, and yes, you'll make mistakes, or at least discover ways you could have done something better.  (Uh huh.  You'll be planning your next layout even before you've started laying track on this one.  Get used to it.)

It's not a race, by the way.  It will take longer than you expect to do almost everything.  Like travelling by rail, it's more about the journey than about the destination.

[cwclark]

Before you begin, get a few "HOW TO" books from kalmbach and study, study, study. 1 for benchwork, 1 for wiring, 1 for trackwork and layout design, and 1 for scenery. Be sure you are happy with your trackplan, don't build anything so large that you can reach across and / or  access everything on your layout, and finally, if you are going to run more than 1 train, go with a good DCC system. You'll enjoy your layout a whole lot more using DCC instead of DC not to mention it's a lot easier to wire....chuck

[johnnyx]

Just a quik update, we started the benchwork late sunday, and now we have about 5 modules framed out.  I will post some pics later on tonight.  Thanks again to everyone who gave there advise.

[johnnyx]

well here are the pics that I promised....  like I said work started late sunday(well in our heads we started on sunday  ) we actually started on tuesday with the building, and this is the progress we have made so far.  Also I thru in a treat for you all......

 

 

theres still alot to be done, but its a start!!!

Thanks.

here;s the treat An A-A lash up of the restored readings F7's.  They were out for a special excursion in East Greenvile PA. 

[HHPATH56]

Hi Johnnyx,

We are still waiting for you to post a diagram of your proposed layout, so that we can make comments.  I assume that you are aware of the need to Host your pictures on "Photobucket", or some other Host, and use the [IMG] option, to be able to POST a picture.   

[HHPATH56]

  I didn't look far enough to see that you have already Posted some terrific pics.  Looks good!    My only concern is if you have screwed the bottoms of the legs to the floor, for rigidity. The legs appear too feeble, and to be too widely spaced. You should use 2"x4", for more ridgid, and safe support of the layout. Another possible way to strengthen the legs, is to screw  two   1"x4" in the form of a T. I assume that the left L is to be a stub ended staging yard. It is not wide enough for a "minimum 24" radius loop. Will the shelf along the left wall continue, beyond the L staging yard space? How will the trains "turn around", to go in the opposite direction? POST a diagram of the proposed layout, so that we can better understand your track plan. It appears that you have lost access to the closet.  Have you considered, having the track pass through the wall of the closet,(and with proper protection), curving around the rear of the closet and reemerging, at the other side of the closet front wall.) This would give the illusion of trains going to locations beyond the layout, and stopping within the hidden space. You could then covert the closet doors with background , and use the doors as a continuous background. I have a double track behind a curved backdrop, which allows one to have a different train emerge from the hidden space. What do you plan to use for your background? Before you attach the top to your layout, it is a good idea to drill holes in the side supports, for passing wires through. If possible, install the main bus wires and associated shut off toggles to each of the "power districts".   If possible, install the sub-bus wires, (from which feeder wires to the track will be attached later.)  You have the advantage of starting from scratch, with your track wiring.  Most of us had to convert from DC to DCC setups. Much of the wiring remains the same, but DC was more tolerant to momentary short circuits, than DCC is. Pre-plan where your required DCC Controls and Boosters, will be located, and make sure that reverse loops and wyes are isolated properly, and and the reverse modules are installed properly. With the size of your DCC layout (when completed), be sure to start with components which can handle the 8-12 Amp current, that you will require. Are you planning to go with "Radio Control)?  It saves a lot on wiring time and expense, even though the initial cost is higher.   Keep us "Up Dated", on the progress of your layout.   Bob

[johnnyx]

HHPATH56 thanks for the advise.  The layout has been lagged to the wall studs for most of the layout, so we didnt screw the legs to the ground.  We do plan on putting more legs around for rigidity but as for now we just have the bones up to support it.  The "L" is only for support due to the fact that it was late and we were tired, so we just placed a bored there....lol. It will connect all the way around.  Also as far as the closet access, both sets of closet doors go into one long closet so even though i lost those doors, I still have 2 more on the other end.  The train into the wall idea has already been thought of, were running the track into the wall then having a switch to go up a helix(eventually) or make a slow curve down around to pop below the layout on the other end of the closet.  This will in turn make the train go away for a bit, with it coming back up on the wall side of the layout.  We are also installing  holes for wiring. 

[johnnyx]

Here is a sketch of what im going for.  Its based loosely off the cumberland amalgamated southern RY that was in the MR track plan database. Just added more track and reworked some lines  

[loathar]

Is that a lift out in front of the double doors? Are you still going to be able to access that closet?

[Anonymous]

What is your bench height? That is one thing that is almost impossible to change once you start.

I have a 13 x 21 room. I put a 24"-36" shelf type layout around three sides for a U shaped N scale layout. I used 1 x2 pine for my benchwork and put 2" blue foam down. I used Peco Insulfrog turnouts, Atlas fixed radius track and Peco flex track. It all works, but I did make some mistakes. I have about 200' of track and 25 turnouts. I never had laid any track before. I worked on it hard, full time for about a month to get it working. It works but is unfinished. Sure I'd do some things differently next time.

The quality of your work will depend on your willingness to do things over when you make a mistake.

[reklein]

Looking good there Johnnyx. Once that first board is cut the anticipaton factor is cut greatly. Good idea about lagging your benchwork to the wall.Can't get much more rigid than that. If you carry your structure across you'll maintain that rigidity. Before you cover that benchwork up it might be nice to cut holes in the joists to run your wiring through. It'l bundle up the wires neatly without using a lot of tie wraps.

[johnnyx]

Is that a lift out in front of the double doors? Are you still going to be able to access that closet?

 

No that door is closed for good but i can access it still.  there is a pull outdrawer in the corner next to the door so I can work with out reaching far. 

[HHPATH56]

  Great diagram of your layout.  Is the diagram done with some software, or is this your own graphics? The background is a little too dark, but is GREAT!   I believe that Loathar is at the wrong end of the room.  The "lift out " will be where you left off at the end of the L, on the left end of the room, Right?, or where do you enter the room?  Will the section with the turntable be lagged to the wall, also?  Will you cover the double doorways with backdrop scenery?    Just a thought concerning the shut off double doors. Have you ever considered substituting folding doors for the double doors. With lift out scenery, you would still have (crawl under) access to the closet. I assumed that the 1"x4" legs, that are shown were, merely, (temporary!) But even though the layout is "lagged to the wall, the front legs will have to have angle braces, or be attached to the floor. It appears that the floor has carpeting over concrete, so perhaps you do not wish to drill holes in the carpet. For your "crossovers, have you ever considered "double-slip switches"? These allow crossovers in either direction, and operate with a single switch motor. Have you considered any reverse loops, or wyes, which allow one to reverse the direction of the train? Somehow, I have taken your layout to heart, since it will an "around the room layout", nearly comparable to my own. Strangely, I have never completed the wiring of my own layout, and have never actually run the train around all of the convolutions of the track.  My special interest is "scenery and modeling structures", which is nearly complete. Technically, there are something like 18 different routes that one can take around my layout.  Mine is freelance of a fictitious mountainous coastal reagion, with about 20 industries to service, besides off the layout traffic, on the mainline.   In some ways, I envy you, in that you can "start from scratch", and (with a little help), can "Dream-Plan-Build" your layout without all the "redoing" that requires a lot of "crawl under antics". At the age of 81, I am not as limber as I once was.  Keep us "updated" on your progress.    Bob Hahn