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DC loco idle on DCC, how long until the motor burns out?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Colorful Colorado
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Posted by Gandy Dancer on Sunday, September 23, 2007 1:38 AM
I would be more interested in knowing what happened to the strength of the magents in the motor.  I've always contended that subjecting them to the reversing current would eventurally weaken them.  So even if the loco wasn't just sitting burning up its brushes (someone was actually running it on channel zero), the magnets would get weaker and weaker making the motor less and less efficient.   Unlike you I am not willing to sacrifice equipment to find out.  I guess maybe I would except I have no effective way to measure the strength of the magnets.
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Posted by Magnum019 on Sunday, September 23, 2007 12:07 AM
OK, Thanks Jeff for running this thread and for testing your motor to Burnout from the previous thread I had a Question for; that answers part of my Question on Burning them out...........The DC Athearn ones I did run and only for a few minutes were not even lukewarm..........Just stopped after 2-3 mins, could take them off the track and run them again for another 2-3 minutes.............Does anyone have an answer for why they shut down.......They are Athearns running on a DCC Digitrax system.......
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Posted by samgolden on Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:27 PM

Hi  In my experience, I think a lot of the factors is the SIZE of the motor.  I have run DC locos on DCC with no problems, EXCEPT, I tried one of those Spectrum 44 tonners with the two motors, and it didn't even get around the loop of track before one of the motors was toast, and the other one, the insulation was discolored.  If you haven't seen one of those motors, it is really really small.  About 1/3rd the size of an Athern BB motor.

Sam 

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:30 PM
 cacole wrote:

Every motor is going to have different characteristics, so your experiment is proving nothing.  Some motors may last weeks or months while others go up in smoke in hours or minutes.

 

I know this. The one I did in June lasted only 2 1/2 hours, this one lasted 8 hours and 15 minutes, so now we know for sure that it's a really bad idea to leave an analog loco sitting idle on live DCC track. The only thing I was trying to prove is that the motor WILL burn up and put a stop to the no it won't talk. We now know for sure that it will. If it'll burn up on a Bachmann DCC system, imagine what it'll do on a Digitrax or NCE system.

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Posted by cacole on Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:20 PM

Every motor is going to have different characteristics, so your experiment is proving nothing.  Some motors may last weeks or months while others go up in smoke in hours or minutes.

 

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:11 PM
 dinwitty wrote:
has it gotten out of its chair and start terrorizing the countryside, Dr. Frankenstein?
Nope. And it won't either. The motor will pull the loco by itself but not with a string of eight cars. It's toast.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by dinwitty on Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:07 PM
has it gotten out of its chair and start terrorizing the countryside, Dr. Frankenstein?
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:00 PM

Get this. I took the brushes out of the motor, or should I say brush, one of them was completely gone, I replaced the brushes and put the motor back in the loco and tried it on the layout. It still runs! Don't get me wrong though, the motor is damaged. The armature windings that were a bright deep green are now a dull, blackish green and the commutator is burned, but it still runs, albeit a bit slower than it did before. I'll put a new motor in it tomorrow and put it back in the display rack.

Before:

After:

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, September 22, 2007 7:43 PM

 jeffrey-wimberly wrote:
Eight hours, fifteen minutes. Catastrophic failure! With a very visible arc, the motor finally died. I think one of the brushes is welded to the commutator. I won't know for sure until I take it apart. Now we know for sure, Athearn motors are TOUGH!

Now we know for sure, idling DC motors on DCC isn't a good thing to do.  The first motor you did was a weak one, but the second one proved that even a solid motor shouldn't get this kind of treatment.

Y'know, you should write up this scientific experiment and send it to MR.  The idea that idling DC motors on DCC would eventually fry them has been kicking around for years.  It's been campfire lore for a long time, but you've finally proven it conclusively.  While they might not publish it as an article, certainly a Letter to the Editor is justified.

You're right up there with Albert Einstein.  And with Heisenberg, I think.

 

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 22, 2007 7:42 PM

Jeff, don't you know that running a DC locomotive under DCC is WRONG! Stop before you are hit with a bolt of lightning. Besides, once you "go DCC" you aren't even supposed to HAVE any DC locomotives. ALL your fleet must be DCC now. And so it was written. And, to top it off, you don't REALLY have DCC, you have a Bachmann!! So it DOESN'T COUNT!!

Just a side note, I once let one of my Bachmann engines idle all night (forgot to turn the power off). Didn't seem to hurt it. The only one I ever hurt was that little (N scale) Galloping Goose by Con Cor. First symptom, it STANK (melting rubber/plastic smell). A few engines won't run at all under DC over DCC. Most run fine. Some will burn up. All depends. Not sure why all the differences, must be different engine designs.

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 7:40 PM
 steemtrayn wrote:
What's you're next experiment gonna be? Worms in the microwave?
Nah, done did that one. It was inconclusive.Clown [:o)]

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by steemtrayn on Saturday, September 22, 2007 7:39 PM
What's you're next experiment gonna be? Worms in the microwave?
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 7:38 PM
Eight hours, fifteen minutes. Catastrophic failure! With a very visible arc, the motor finally died. I think one of the brushes is welded to the commutator. I won't know for sure until I take it apart. Now we know for sure, Athearn motors are TOUGH!

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
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Posted by loathar on Saturday, September 22, 2007 7:34 PM
I don't think anyone here is in a position to send you a spare mobile if you burn yours down.Big Smile [:D]
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 7:29 PM
 UP2CSX wrote:
Keep a fire extinguisher handy. It'll probably burst into flames when she finally blows. Smile [:)]
Got one right here. The loco is starting to make some really wierd noises now. It'll probably go any time now.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by UP2CSX on Saturday, September 22, 2007 7:25 PM
Keep a fire extinguisher handy. It'll probably burst into flames when she finally blows. Smile [:)]
Regards, Jim
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 7:22 PM
Eight hours after the test started and it's still plugging away. The shell is heating up though.

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 5:40 PM
That's alright, let it hit. It'll be $54 instead of $53.Laugh [(-D]

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by Flashwave on Saturday, September 22, 2007 5:36 PM

 jeffrey-wimberly wrote:
Six hours and some change and it's starting to make some wierd noises.

 

YTou realize ypur power bill is about to hit the floor

-Morgan

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 5:29 PM
Six hours and some change and it's starting to make some wierd noises.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 3:58 PM
 Hoople wrote:

Are you killing your SP RS-3?


BAD JEFF! BAD!

No, the Santa Fe. I can always put another motor in it. I've got quite a few of them.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 3:57 PM
It's an old MDC (Roundhouse) RS3 with a standard size Athearn motor with green armature windings. I.ve put a little bit of a load on it and it's starting to heat up a little.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by Hoople on Saturday, September 22, 2007 3:55 PM

Are you killing your SP RS-3?


BAD JEFF! BAD!

Mark.
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Posted by Flashwave on Saturday, September 22, 2007 3:51 PM
How bigs the engine? Theoretically, if you have a larger loco, there's more space for the current to occupy than a smaller motor. Also, and lights will draw more power, as I;ve found with a few of my old locoos, and if you have a remoted Sound system, that'll drink like a son of a gun

-Morgan

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 3:26 PM
Yeah. I'm thinking about turning the power up a little bit and see what happens. It's been four hours and it's not even warm.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Saturday, September 22, 2007 3:00 PM

I think that for many motors this will be the case.  They draw very little current, hence they don't get hot.  If the motor drew a bit more current, it would get hotter, and it would need to turn to cool it down.  I think the lesson here is that SOME motors will burn out, SOME motors won't and it might be difficult to predict which is which.  All of which makes the recommendation to remove power from a DC loco that is stationary on the DCC layout a good one.  The noise makes it unlikely one would want to operate that way in the long term anyway, I think!

 

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 2:38 PM
So far, it's looking that way.Laugh [(-D]

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Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
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Posted by Ibeamlicker on Saturday, September 22, 2007 2:34 PM
Only the loco's you care about usually melt instantly,that one will buzz forever!
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, September 22, 2007 2:31 PM
Oh yeah! It sounds like an angry hornet.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
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Running Bear Enterprises
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beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Saturday, September 22, 2007 2:27 PM

Is it making the Buzzzzzzzzzzzz?

 

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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