Weathering a 2-6-2???

[mikesmowers]

   I am wanting to weather a Prarie 2-6-2, and was wondering what you folks use for colors?  If I use black will it show up on a black engine? What about a light wash of gray or brown.  I am trying to get my weathering down but it seems I always get it to dark.  Any suggestions?   Thanks,    Mike

[doctorwayne]

The best place to start when weathering a steam loco is in the initial paint job.  Using an airbrush for all steps, I like to start with Floquil Engine Black.  For the cab and tender body, I add a little white to make the black less stark.  For the boiler, cylinders, smokebox front and tender frame and deck, I also add some grey primer to the first mix:  just enough so that it appears even "less black" than the first colour.  For the running gear, both loco and tender, I add a little more grey, and also some brown:  I'm looking for a dirtier-looking black here.  Finally, for the firebox and smokebox, I add even more brown, and sometimes even a little red or orange:  these areas got pretty hot and the slightly rusty colour simulates this well.  After the loco is painted and lettered, the next step in weathering is the finish:  The smokebox and firebox get a dead flat finish; for the running gear and tender deck, add a small amount of gloss to the mixture, and moreso for the boiler, cylinders, and smokebox front.  My locos are meant to depict ones which are well-maintained, so this is a semi-gloss tending more towards semi- than gloss.   Finally, the cab and tender body get a coat of glossier semi-gloss.   Of course, the angle of the picture can enhance or decrease the effect of the finish, as will further weathering.

 

You could probably do a pre-painted loco by mixing up similar colours, then thinning the paints severely (90% thinner) and applying a very light overspray of each to the appropriate areas.  Follow up with a clear coat as outlined above, then move on to any additional weathering that you might wish to include.  Weathering colours, in my opinion, should almost always be thinned to a much greater degree than paint used for basic painting.  I prefer 70% to 90% thinner, as it's much easier to add successive coats for heavier coverage than it is to remove weathering that's been applied too heavily.  I usually apply a spray of grime on the lower extremities of the loco and tender, and sometimes follow that up with some road dust, in a slightly lighter colour.  The loco and tender should be coupled together for this (to ensure that the weathering is consistent between the two), the drivers turning (apply power jumpers or disconnect the drive train) and all other wheels on the engine and tender turning.  This ensures that all moving parts, including the rods and valve gear, get weathered equally.  I use a section of powered track in the spray both for this, both restraining and moving the loco with my free hand while spraying.  I also like to spray a very dark black trail of soot from the stack along the top of the boiler and cab:  a very light touch works best here, at least until you get the feel for it.  This is a good one to practise on an empty toiletpaper roll.  You can also add some weathering with a fine brush:  lime deposits around washout plugs and steam and water hose connections, and oil or grease where applicable.  Clear flat spray, applied as if it were a weathering colour (like the grime or dust noted above) can also provide a very subtle weathering effect on those gloss and semi-gloss surfaces.  When you've finished weathering, you may have to clean wheel treads for proper current pick-up:  a small brush dipped in lacquer thinner works well - touch it to the tread of the turning wheel, then wipe with a clean rag.

Wayne

[UP2CSX]

I addition to the Doctor's excellent advice, where is the geographical region your engine will run in? This will have a big efffect on how you weather. If it's the desert, the weathering will look a lot different than if it's the midwest or the east coast. One of the best things you can do is have as many pictures aspossible of engines that ran in your part of the country and use them as weathering guides.

[doctorwayne]

Jim has a good point, and one that I neglected to mention.  Prototype photos are a must, even if you're free-lancing.  Be careful, though, with older coloured photos, as the colours, like me, didn't always age well.   And the point about geographic region is also correct, tempered, of course, by the practices of specific railroads within the region.  Some kept their locos in top mechanical condition but neglected the niceties, while others also exhibited a lot of pride in the appearance of their equipment.  Then, there were also some that didn't waste too much effort on either.

Wayne

[tomikawaTT]

doctorwayne,

Love the subtle differences in different places - and your explanation of how you achieved it.

One effect I'd like to model is one I saw on several color photos of N&W Y class 2-8-8-2 pushers.  After several well-sanded trips upgrade, the running gear was coated with silica sand ground to the consistency of talcum powder.  That would be one way to visually differentiate my 'designated pusher' from the road power on the ready tracks.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[doctorwayne]

Thanks for the kind words, Chuck.  That "sandblasted effect" (or "blasted sand" effect) should be easy enough to duplicate if you can mix up a similar colour of paint, and the photos would be invaluable in getting that effect exactly where it belongs.  I've got a friend's brass CNR U-2-a Northern here for repainting.  The actual paint job looks pretty good, but whoever did the weathering wasn't working from a photo:  the "weathering" is a series of airbrushed greyish streaks, encircling the boiler like so many excess boiler bands.  Granted, they're quite subtle, but there's absolutely no appliance or fitting in their vicinity that would leak grey paint.   It's usually adviseable to keep the weathering more or less to a similar degree that's typical for the road and area that you're modelling, even if you've got photos of a prototype that really stands out due to excess weathering.  I seem to recall a photo in a long ago issue of Trains that showed a loco (a Burlington 4-8-4 perhaps) that ran into a truck or boxcar loaded with flour.  Your friends might believe your weathering job once you showed them the photo of the prototype, but I'll bet that you'd get tired of seeing it on your layout pretty quickly.  One of the reasons that I don't model the transition era - the '50s here in Canada, at least, is that a lot of steam locos didn't get the same care and attention to appearance as they ran out their final miles.  Here's a shot of the 3529 as it was originally painted.  It's owned by the same friend who owns the Northern.  He supplied some b&w photos for this paint job, mostly taken in the '50s, and the heavy weathering is a reasonable representation of the photos.  However, after seeing the lighter weathering on some of my locos, he asked for something similar on a couple of his latest acquisitions.  He liked them so much that I've been working through some of his older locos, bringing them up to the same standard.

Wayne    

[marknewton]

Mike, Wayne's advice is very sound, follow it and you're unlikely to go wrong.

The only additional comments I'd make are these...

Learn a bit about how steam engines work, and what parts do what and how. That way you'll understand why they weather in the manner that they do.

As an example, some older locos have rods lubricated by oil via pin-feeds, rather than grease lubrication. Pin-feeds throw oil all over the rods, wheels and adjacent parts of the loco, making them look dark and a bit glossy.

Grease lubrication is the opposite, and is often characterised by the light, dusty look of finely ground sand, as mentioned by Chuck.

Another common weathering pattern is the road dirt and grime thrown up onto the lower rear of the loco and the tender sides and running gear by the injector overflow. When you start an injector, water pours out of the overflow. When you open the steam range, there is a quick burst of steam and water from the overflow, which will splash mud and dirt up over the parts of the loco nearest the overflow.

With reference to Wayne's advice, on some locos the smokebox and firebox are lagged and jacketed, so these won't show the same rusty appearance as bare metal - research is the answer here.

Also, I would not have much, if any, streaking from washout plugs. In my experience, streaking is only evident immediately after a washout, and then only from the plugs at the very bottom of the firebox nearest the mud ring/foundation bar. If they are leaking so badly in steam that there are visible streaks, the engine would be failed before entering traffic.

One pet hate of mine is models with heavy streaking and rust stains around the rear of the tender, supposedly caused by water overflowing the tender filler hatch. But virtually all North American engines had drains on the tender deck so that water wouldn't overflow like that. That's one of those instances where people simply copy another modeller's work, rather than copying reality.

Anyway, refer to photos as Wayne suggested, do a bit of reading and research, and go from there.

All the best,

Mark.

(PS: Wayne, I love the long, lean, NYC-inspired 4-8-2 under the coal plant -very drooly!!! )

[doctorwayne]

Thanks for the info on the prototype, Mark.  I work mostly from photos, but knowledge of how the prototype worked will definitely aid in making the weathering believable.  Many modellers today have never seen a working steamer, and even then, most of those still operating get a lot of attention to their appearance, and so may not be indicative of what a hard-working loco might have looked like when there wasn't always time for the niceties.  And you're right too about some folks copying another modeller's (inappropriate) weathering:  the prototype is always your best reference.

(PS: Wayne, I love the long, lean, NYC-inspired 4-8-2 under the coal plant -very drooly!!! )

Thanks so much, Mark.  It's very gratifying to have the inspiration for that loco noticed without having to point it out.  The Central used to run some steam, mostly Pacifics and Hudsons, into my hometown of Hamilton, Ontario, so I have a bit of a soft spot for them.  I used a couple of pictures out of Morgan's " The Mohawk That Refused to Abdicate..." book to figure out some of the piping for the Worthington fwh: one was a Mopac loco and the other a NYC Hudson.  I then compared the details of the Hudson to my Bachmann Light USRA Mountain to determine what needed changing.  I ended up lengthening the front frame to accomodate the air pumps and radiator, and added the cast steel pilot.  I also change the layout of the air tanks and piping, and raised the running boards to match the appearance of those on the Hudson.  The shrouding over the piping in front of the cab and the enlarged deflector on the cab roof completed the transformation to a Mohawk (of sorts), and I finished it off with a headlight and numberboards following my freelanced road's usual practice.  The shorter tender reflects the line's shorter runs, and also ensures that it fits on the existing turntables.   Here's another photo:

Wayne

[ProtoWeathering]

doctorwayne, and everyone else who has commented, excellent advise on painting and weathering steam. I have a Brass Santa Fe mike awaiting my first attempt at painting.

One thing mentioned that goes without saying, (but I'll say it any way) is try to use as many prototype reference photos as you can. I found this great resource years ago and copies of the book can be found rather inexpensively on eBay. 281 full color photos. I just paid $10 including shipping for a gift to a modeling friend.

It's "Americas Colorful Railroads" by Don Ball Jr. Published by Reed Books ISBN 0-89169-517-6

The photos are primarily from the transition era and include all sections of North America. Every picture is in color and it's wonderful to have even if you're just an armchair modeler.

This is a low res scan from the book. As you can see, there's lots to see, Si?

[mikesmowers]

  Thanks to all who replied, there is a lot of goo info here and I thought that since you all were kind enough to help me, I would show you what I ended up with.

  Here is a black & whith pic, I thought since it is an old time steamer I should include a B&W pic.

 Here it is in color. The color shows the weathering much better. Thanks for the help.  Any comments?     Mike 

[marknewton]

Many modellers today have never seen a working steamer, and even then, most of those still operating get a lot of attention to their appearance...

Good point Wayne, and one that I think is often overlooked. When I was running steam locos on heritage/tourist trains they were always very clean. We'd take all day raising steam, so that allowed plenty of time for our volunteer helpers to thoroughly "tub & scrub" them before the run.

But during 2000, we ran a fortnight-long trip throughout the southern part of Australia, under the name "Millenium Aurora". Because we were away fom our normal support facilities - and we also had a few 'dramas' along the way - neither steam engine got cleaned for the duration of the trip.

I'll always remember looking over the locos when we arrived back in Sydney, and marvelling at how dirty they'd become*. I also noticed that the distinct weathering patterns I'd noticed on them in their regular service days were once again quite apparent.

(* I also remember just how dirty and tired-looking my crews were - spending two weeks on the road with a pair of big 4-6-2s and a 4-6-4, living out of a small, cramped crew van, eating takeaway, Pizza Hut and KFC does nothing for your complexion!!! )

Thanks so much, Mark.  It's very gratifying to have the inspiration for that loco noticed without having to point it out. (snipped for brevity)

Mate, it's just as gratifying for me to see such a nicely-done and believable freelance loco. You've put a lot of work into it, and gotten a bloody good result.

Although I've never modelled either,and probably never will, both the MP and NYC rank very highly with me for their very handsome steam power. Thanks for sharing your work with us.

Cheers,

Mark.

[doctorwayne]

Mike, you've made a big improvement over the factory-fresh appearance that we usually see on that loco. Nice work!   If I could make one suggestion, though, it would be to paint the siderods and valve gear.  While some roads did run polished rods, usually the loco itself was kept pretty spiffy too.  For your hard-working steamer, I'd use Floquil or PollyScale, applied with a brush.  I usually apply a very tiny drop of LaBelle oil to all of the moving joints before painting: that way any paint that gets into the wrong areas won't harden and gum-up the works.  Any oily/greasy colour should work well.

Mark, any chance of some pictures of that trip?  Sounds like it must've been quite an experience and quite something to see, too.

Wayne

[marknewton]

Wayne, I do have some photos, although they're mainly of the train crew, rather than the engines and train. I'll have a look around and see what I can find. All I can offer in the meantime are the few photos on my Fotopic pages linked in my posts.

http://marknewton01.fotopic.net/c139785.html
http://marknewton01.fotopic.net/c232641.html

Your request raises an interesting point, one I've discussed with other people I know who work with heritage/tourist trains. I rarely took photos of the equipment, as I was often too busy to stop and do so. Also, it was inconvenient to carry a decent camera in my overalls pocket when I was on the footplate. That's one instance where I wish small digital cameras had been available - at a reasonable price - much sooner than they were. I didn't find one that was suitable until after I left Eveleigh and went to CityRail. The photos of Eveleigh at night were taken with this. I have a lot more of these, which I will upload when I get a chance.
I think, too, that I developed the attitude that " I work with these things every day, there's no need to take photos". I've found that to be a commonly held idea with people in the industry.


When I did take photos, it was mostly photos of my workmates, the various people who contributed to keeping the engines and train running. As much fun as running steam engines was, it was the people I worked with, and with whom I developed lasting friendships, that made my time at Eveleigh such an enjoyable part of my career.

As for the 2000 trip, it certainly was an experience, but I don't know if I'd back up for another one nowadays. I rather like the comfort and predictability of working suburban EMUs, and I come home clean!

All the best,

Mark.

[doctorwayne]

I think, too, that I developed the attitude that " I work with these things every day, there's no need to take photos". I've found that to be a commonly held idea with people in the industry.

You're probably right about that, Mark.  It's like the neat stuff we see on the way to work every day that we always mean to get a picture of, then suddenly, one day, it's gone.

Those are some really nice pictures, Mark.  I believe that Trains did a feature on that class of locos, sometime back.  I also like the picture of 7344: it looks a bit like a vest-pocket Century.  My favourite of the bunch, though, is the b&w pan shot of the 3801 - it just looks very business-like.  Thanks for sharing.

Wayne