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MDC two-truck Shay

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MDC two-truck Shay
Posted by philo426 on Monday, September 10, 2007 12:20 PM
 
 
Here is a pic of my MDC 2-truck Shay.As I recall this kit was a bear and I had to de-assemble and re-assemble it until I got it to run right.Now she runs great!
 
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Posted by philo426 on Monday, September 10, 2007 12:21 PM
 
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Posted by jeffers_mz on Monday, September 10, 2007 4:15 PM

I believe Frank Wright explained the running problem to me. The mechanism has a "gear loop" in it.

Gears inside the loco turn the wheels, which turn the exterior gears which run the valve gear.

He recommended removing all but one of the 4 exterior gears, or filing the teeth down on three of them, to remove the loop.

Unfortunately, the axle gears are split on mine, so I haven't been able to test the solution yet.

If you'rs runs ok now, then even better.

 

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Posted by gear-jammer on Monday, September 10, 2007 5:07 PM

Our MDC 2-truck Shay was RTR for DC.  When we went to install decoder for DCC,  we found other problems.  We installed a NWSL regearing kit.  Now it is a tough runner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU6rK8Hy17M

Thought that you might enjoy this.

Sue

Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.

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Posted by philo426 on Monday, September 10, 2007 6:15 PM
As i recall(I made the kit in'84) I had to shorten some of the squared brass tubing that connected to the Shay engine.(note:This conclusion was arrived at over many frustrating assembly sessions).Now she runs just great i did not find it necessary to alter the main gears in the main differential.
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Posted by cacole on Monday, September 10, 2007 6:25 PM

An entire book was written on how to get one of these Shay kits to run properly by using parts from North West Short Line and other manufacturers.  When I calculated the cost of the parts, they were going to be more than the original kit.

Then MDC came out with the RTR version, so I bought it.  I still have an unassembled kit that I will probably never attempt to use.

Even so, the Bachmann Spectrum 3-truck Shay is a much better engine.

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Posted by gear-jammer on Monday, September 10, 2007 7:24 PM

Our Bachmann 3-Truck Shay has never run as well as the regeared MDC 2-Truck Shay. The Bachmann is quieter, but the MDC will pull more. 

 I know that is contrary to other responses, but we found the NWSL kit worth the investment.

Sue

Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.

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Posted by dinwitty on Monday, September 10, 2007 10:52 PM

I had a 3 truck, it was missing parts, or I couldnt get the 3 truck to run right, so I 2 truckered it.

Just careful construction, tweaking there, here, it ran like a dream, no extra parts whatever.

It ran near continuous on the HOn3 club loop during open houses. Only prob I had was the rotating shaft on the rear was a tad short, so on some ubquitious moment it would slip out.

 I sold it but bought another to build -right-

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Posted by gear-jammer on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 9:07 AM
 dinwitty wrote:

I had a 3 truck, it was missing parts, or I couldnt get the 3 truck to run right, so I 2 truckered it.

Just careful construction, tweaking there, here, it ran like a dream, no extra parts whatever.

It ran near continuous on the HOn3 club loop during open houses. Only prob I had was the rotating shaft on the rear was a tad short, so on some ubquitious moment it would slip out.

 I sold it but bought another to build -right-

Ours has a surging type of lurching on the down hill as slow speeds.  It is very annoying.  Bachmann sent us new parts, but the thing still does it.

Sue

Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:49 AM

Ours has a surging type of lurching on the down hill as slow speeds.

But so did the prototype Big Smile [:D]

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Posted by philo426 on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 5:14 PM
But that is a Bachmann and mine is MDC different animals!
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Posted by gear-jammer on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 9:11 PM
 philo426 wrote:

But that is a Bachmann and mine is MDC different animals!

That was my point.  The MDC is smooth at super slow speeds.

Sue

 

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Posted by jeffers_mz on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:13 PM

The Bachman 3 truck is a pretty locomotive, and I'd buy one again in a heartbeat.

But it does surge on downhills.

It is a bit noisy.

Most of all, the railroad we model only had one Shay and it was a two truck.

Even though I love it, the Bachman is an anomaly on our layout, some sort of an unexplained visitor from another railroad. 

My problem is the layout of the NWSL website.

I go there and wander around, not really knowing where I am,what I'm looking at, or whether the parts I'm looking at are the right ones or the wrong ones needed to regear the MDC two truck Shay.

I'm pretty sure it takes two sets of gears, the axle gears, and the bullnose gear housing.

Sometimes I even think I know the right model numbers to order.

But so far, the idea of transferring the money to my internet checking account, ordering the parts, anticipating their arrival for howrever many weeks or days it takes them to arrive, and then finding out they are thee wrong ones, or worse, not finding out they are wrong and screwing up the only limited availability two truck Shay we have has stopped me from actually placing the order.

It wuld be very helpful for me if someone who had actually done the repairs and was sure of the part catalog numbers could confirm what I only guess so far.

 

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Posted by eeyore9900 on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:58 PM
Sue, loved your vid of your shay-looks great running at a correct low speed. But I have to admit, what blew me away was your background music choice-The Osborne Bros. with Red Allen from 1957! (I had to make sure my computer "jukebox" hadn't suddenly taken on a life of it's own since I have that album loaded in.) Once again, great vid!
Mitch (AKA) The Donkey Donkey's Dirty Details
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Posted by twhite on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:59 PM

Built an MDC the first year they came out--can't remember how long ago. Little devil took me almost two weeks, and it 'ground' like all Heck when I started breaking it in, but the noise went away--or at least became bearable.  Still have it.  Still grinds like crazy, but that little devil will pull like crazy at 5smph.  I've got a Bachmann Spectrum, and I like it and it's smooth and quiet, but the little, noisy MDC still outpulls it. 

Neat loco, that little MDC.  I like it.  It was a BEAR to build, though, LOL!

Tom 

 

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Posted by gear-jammer on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 11:21 PM
 jeffers_mz wrote:

 

My problem is the layout of the NWSL website.

I go there and wander around, not really knowing where I am,what I'm looking at, or whether the parts I'm looking at are the right ones or the wrong ones needed to regear the MDC two truck Shay.

I'm pretty sure it takes two sets of gears, the axle gears, and the bullnose gear housing.

Sometimes I even think I know the right model numbers to order.

But so far, the idea of transferring the money to my internet checking account, ordering the parts, anticipating their arrival for howrever many weeks or days it takes them to arrive, and then finding out they are thee wrong ones, or worse, not finding out they are wrong and screwing up the only limited availability two truck Shay we have has stopped me from actually placing the order.

It wuld be very helpful for me if someone who had actually done the repairs and was sure of the part catalog numbers could confirm what I only guess so far.

 

Jeffers,

I spoke with my husband.  He agreed with you that the website was not easy to navigate.  There is an article on the MDC on their website that you should read.  He replaced the brass bullgear, and believes the other item was the partial regear kit.  They also sent a hard copy of the article with the kits.

It will take me a few days to look up the invoice if you are interested.  my husband gave me the part numbers and I called NWSL in Seattle.  The parts arrived in a couple days.

Sue

Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.

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Posted by twcenterprises on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 3:21 AM
 gear-jammer wrote:
 jeffers_mz wrote:

My problem is the layout of the NWSL website.

I go there and wander around, not really knowing where I am,what I'm looking at, or whether the parts I'm looking at are the right ones or the wrong ones needed to regear the MDC two truck Shay.

I'm pretty sure it takes two sets of gears, the axle gears, and the bullnose gear housing.

Sometimes I even think I know the right model numbers to order.

But so far, the idea of transferring the money to my internet checking account, ordering the parts, anticipating their arrival for howrever many weeks or days it takes them to arrive, and then finding out they are thee wrong ones, or worse, not finding out they are wrong and screwing up the only limited availability two truck Shay we have has stopped me from actually placing the order.

It wuld be very helpful for me if someone who had actually done the repairs and was sure of the part catalog numbers could confirm what I only guess so far.

 

Jeffers,

I spoke with my husband.  He agreed with you that the website was not easy to navigate.  There is an article on the MDC on their website that you should read.  He replaced the brass bullgear, and believes the other item was the partial regear kit.  They also sent a hard copy of the article with the kits.

It will take me a few days to look up the invoice if you are interested.  my husband gave me the part numbers and I called NWSL in Seattle.  The parts arrived in a couple days.

Sue

Jeffers, I think the best idea is to simply call NWSL and get one of their gurus on the line, explain what you want to do, and he/she will make sure the correct parts come your way.  They may even be able to explain (or better, have instructions) if you need them.

Last time I had a friend who needed to repower a loco who did this, NWSL was most helpful, courteous, and the order was correct, and arrived on a timely basis.

Brad 

EMD - Every Model Different

ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil

CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts

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Posted by philo426 on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 8:17 AM
Why was it necessary to buy a re-gearing kit?I admit that this kit was a bear but after I got her running she pulls and runs well.As for the noise.I kinda like it,and the sight of the crankshaft and running gear spinning like mad is cool.Visitors reallly like it and have many questions about it.All in all one of my fave locos!
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Posted by jeffers_mz on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 12:04 PM

Philo, my axle gears are split, either one out of two trucks, or else three out of foru axles, can't remember which. They just spin on the axle. One axle turning isn't enough to move the loco with the others dragging, so new gears are a must.

People who know the engine pretty well, who described the gear loop to me suggested I replace the bullgear too. Quality and longevity issue IIRC, and possible side benefit of quieter operation.

Gear Jammer, I'll just call NWSL, no need for you to go digging. I'd thought of that before and if memory serves, they were shut down over the holidays, and I never picked up the thread again after normal business hours resumed. 

Thanks for the offer though.

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Posted by philo426 on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 4:02 PM
Which gear has split?
 
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Posted by philo426 on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 4:05 PM
 
Are you saying that the plastic gears(if they should go bad)should be replaced with NWSL metal gears?I do run the Shay occasionally but never with a heavy load (3-5 small ore cars.)Do you think the others who had this Shay may have run it with heavier loads and/or ran it for extended periods of time?
 
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Posted by jeffers_mz on Thursday, September 13, 2007 12:11 AM

The worm gears, mounted not quite center of each axle, 3 out of 4 of them were split when I got it, NIB, RTR.

I packed it up, sent it back, and they sent me a different one, same problem.

At the time I had a thread going here, and was told it's a common occurrance, and I wanted the locomotive, so I decided to quit hassleing with the dealer and just get NWSL gears to replace the split ones. 

When I went to call NWSL though, they had closed for their Christmas/New Year's break so i put the project on hold, and I never got back around to getting it fixed.

I will, winter is coming up, and a lot more of that kind of work gets done. In the summer, I spend a lot of time cutting grass, raising and canning tomatoes, and shooting competitively, so what little layout time is left usually goes to larger projects that go easier outdoors, like benchwork and carving foam. Then in winter, the detail work and individual locomotive or rolling stock or building work gets done.

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Posted by philo426 on Thursday, September 13, 2007 12:28 AM
NIB=New in Box RTR=Ready to Run.Well maybe the kit was different from the RTR version.Despite over 20 yeards of occasional running she still purs right along.I guess I got lucky with the worm gears!
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Posted by wetidlerjr on Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:24 PM
I bought two RTR and neither ran out of the box so I ordered some of the NWSL bull gears. I replaced the gear on one engine and it now runs fine. I'll get to the other one later. Big Smile [:D]

Bill Tidler Jr.

Near a cornfield in Indiana...

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Posted by gear-jammer on Friday, September 14, 2007 12:13 AM

The nice thing about the partial regear kit is that you get new driveline and u-joints, along with axle gears.  Larry didn't replace the axle gears because they were in good shape.

Hint: Bourbon makes small parts smaller.Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D]

Sue 

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:05 PM

Hi, Sorry to sort of barge in here, but my MDC rtr HOn3 loco just wnet bad a few days ago. I've been searching for solutions, and found myself here.  The little 12 tooth pastic gear at the top of the tall vertical gear box in the center of the engine cracked.  I tried glueing it, but that doesn't seem to work.  I saw some replacement items at NWSL web site, but I'm not sure what to get.

 

They had a 1094-6,  0.3 x 12t spurgear in an old writeup, also some gearing packages:

189-6, 190-6, or 188-6.

 

Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

Thanks in advance,

Bill 

 

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Posted by philo426 on Sunday, September 16, 2007 7:04 PM
I have extra gears but they are plastic.Did you mean the top gear that connnects the gearbox to the motor?
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 17, 2007 9:53 PM
Yes, it's on a shaft that mates to the shaft on the motor itself.  Very tiny gear.
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Posted by philo426 on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:43 PM
 
IF you would like it,let me know I have 2 extra ones.When I ordered spare parts in the '80s they sent you the whole sprue that the requested part was molded on!Good deal and nice to have extra incase something goes wrong!
 
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:28 PM
Well, thats mighty nice of you. If you're sure you won't need one, I'ld certainly be happy to have it. But I wouldn't want to leave you without a spare, just in case the same thing happened to you. I'll email you my address.

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