In the last few days I have been working on the bench. It has two main lines one DC and Other one DCC. Well it is all DCC now and the 18" turns are gone!
With making both lines DCC I added around 75 feet of track if not more. So as I knew there would be there is a power drop that was a given.
Before you flame me, I like my Bachmann EZ command it is simple and I like that. I can use K-10 Trains layout to set CV's for free. Plus there is no "what button did I push to top making something work"! I will all so point out when I was worried about needing more F fuctions and was a waste of time "did I want to push buttons or run the trains"!
Yes I know there is a Bachmann 5 amp booster and K-10 trains will let me know what my cost is next week if I go that way. On E-bay only seller I have seen wants $180.00 plus shipping, no way at this point am I going to pay that much for now.
While I was looking around on Tonys Train world I came across this.
http://www.tonystrains.com/download/MF615-Install-Poster.pdf
Said it would work with other DCC systems not listed and prices is sure right at $39.95.
I just don't want to fiddle with the contoler to make a engine run.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Ken,
If it were any other DCC system besides the Bachmann, I'd say look into it a bit more and go for it. However, since the E-Z Command is somewhat unique, I'd be VERY careful about hooking up anything other than their own 5-amp booster.
You could also e-mail or call Tony's directly and ask them whether that particular booster would work with the E-Z Command. I would do that before taking a chance and inadvertantly frying it.
For what it's worth...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
CSX Robert wrote:Cuda Ken,Is the voltage drop because of the extra length in the run or because you are running more engines at the same time? If it is just the extra length, then you may not need a booster, but just a heavier gauge bus wire. If you do need a booster, the MF615 is not one, it is only a power supply. Most boosters will work with most DCC systems if you know how to wire them up, but here is a booster that should work with any DCC system because it uses the track outputs from the DCC system to get it's DCC signal:http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=82034
Yes, exactly. If you are not running more trains a booster isn't the answer, rather heavier/more bus and feeders.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
The Magna Force from Tony's is just a power supply for the DCC system it won't increase the current available from the DCC system to the track.
Ken.
The solution may lie with more track feeders, not simply more power. How many do you have and how often?
jktrains
P.S. - it's 'also' not 'all so'
NZRMac wrote: The Magna Force from Tony's is just a power supply for the DCC system it won't increase the current available from the DCC system to the track. Ken.
I thought something didn't look right. I was wondering how they were gettin 6amps of track power out of that little thing.
I have run 8 N scale locomotives with my Bachmann EZ command.
All it lacks is a radio throttle.
As far as the Bus wires (that is from the power back to the feeders right?) it is 14 gauge silver wire low oxgen moster cable Audiophile grade wire at $4.00 a foot. Had some left over from my stero hobby. Feedes are 18 gauge but they have some long runs before I knew to block the feeders which I will do as I go.
On the B line that was DCC only I have ran 4 BLIs with sound with no problem. With both A and B line now being DCC I have only ran 3 BLI's with sound. Reason I think I may need more power?
Engines volume seems lower than before
Sometimes the engines stop and the Bachmann reboots for lack of a way of saying it better.
Other reason I ask there is a new section getting ready to come on line in a few months and it will add around 50 feet of track.
Thanks for the link of the other power supply as well.
If you are running fewer engines, the problem isn't lack of power. It's just voltage drop, and the ability to provide more current won't help. More feeders should, unless there's something else going on. Does the probelm happen everywhere, or just in certain places? I'd give the wiring a good inspection, and make sure nothing has gotten messed up. And think about anything else you might have changed. You can measure the voltage, but you will need to have a load (an engine perhaps), and measure it lots of places.
More track doesn't matter, more trains does.
cudaken wrote: As far as the Bus wires (that is from the power back to the feeders right?) it is 14 gauge silver wire low oxgen moster cable Audiophile grade wire at $4.00 a foot. Had some left over from my stero hobby. Feedes are 18 gauge but they have some long runs before I knew to block the feeders which I will do as I go. On the B line that was DCC only I have ran 4 BLIs with sound with no problem. With both A and B line now being DCC I have only ran 3 BLI's with sound. Reason I think I may need more power? Engines volume seems lower than before Sometimes the engines stop and the Bachmann reboots for lack of a way of saying it better. Other reason I ask there is a new section getting ready to come on line in a few months and it will add around 50 feet of track. Thanks for the link of the other power supply as well. Cuda Ken
I don't know much about the Bachman systems but it sounds like either you have a reverse loop somewhere now with the A line added or you are reaching the limit on power output from the Bachman. It doesn't sound like as voltage drop issue, although you mention the volume being lower. That could also be current related since current is really what does the work, not the voltage. A couple of qustions to help narrow things down:
1. Does everything on the A section work fine including volume and being able to run all 4 BLIs ? And the problem is only with the B section ?
2. Do A and B sections connect together at more than one point ?
3. Does the volume change based upon where the locomotive is on the track or is it generally lower everywhere ?
Answers to these may help narrow down the issue. A track plan would also be helpful.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
5 amp booster for 180 plus shipping? HOW MUCH!? To me that Ebayer is hoping to profit off a dummy.
Im sitting on a Digitrax 2012 power supply that I got out of the hobby shop for 140- and that thing has basically all the power I will ever use in my life time. (Way too much.. but let's not go there now)
I feed my track every 6 feet or so minimum and ideally at every joint.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
On the reverse loop, yes the A and B line connect but all the turn outs use plactic joiners. I have yet cross from one line to another. On the joints, I have solder a few of them but not many. Where I have solder them have been problem spots and it did fix them.
I have around with out counting them 30 feeders between the two main lines. There is apx 150 feet not counting spurs and interchanges between A and the B line.
There is no problem sections, engines sound the same all the way round. In fact excpet the engines sounding a little lower in volume there is no real problem. The rebooting, some times that happen with a single engine. Maybe a rolling stock with metal wheels might hit something just wrong at the right time and cause the reboot.
More than likely the answer is more feeders and then more power.
Right now my Big Boy is making the rounds and is running sweet. I am a happy man right now.
If some answers this question it will take a long answer I am guessing. What is driffrent between wiring a DC bench and a DCC bench? When I started I made sure all the out side rails went to one block and inside rails went to another. I have 4 main blocks 2 for each for main line using what I just listed above.
Is it really this simple?
It comes with it's own power supply? I can use the stock wall wart (power supply) the bachmann EZ command came with for the station?
Naw, I must be wrong nothing for me is that simple.
I must be dreaming again Cuda Ken
Hi
wholesaletrains.com has the Bachmann EZ Command 5 amp booster for $162.48.
They have been good, both shipping wise, and in my case, an hour down the road if I want to drive.
Here is the link to their page for all B EZ stuff:
Your Low Price Hobby Superstore- There's fun for everyone!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
That's where I bought my original E-Z Command from for $53.
Anyone is it that simple to hook up?
Maybe that's a question better asked and answered on the Bachmann forum. Seriously, I would post the question for "The Bach Man" and see what he/others have to say...
cudaken wrote: Anyone is it that simple to hook up? Cuda Ken
Looks like it. All a booster does is take the input signal and 'boost' it, so that is probably right. Some boosters can take a signal at almost any 'reasonable' level and put out the 'right' stuff. Remember, feeders are still important. I'll go back to the original point, if you have not added engines, more power capacity isn't the problem, getting the power to them may be.
Does the EZ Command have a built-in power supply, or do you have to provide a power source for it?
I was running my Lenz system off an old train transformer. It was fine until I got a sound-equipped BLI Hudson, and started using it to pull illuminated passenger cars. Yes, the Lenz is rated at 5 amps, but the old transformer couldn't put that much out. The solution was a 5-amp supply from NCE, which brought things up to where they should be.
The extra resistive losses in the long bus lines might drain away any reserve power you had, and if you're not using a power supply rated up to the capacity of the EZ Command, then that could be part of the problem.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
The Quarter test really demonstrates if the booster or command station sees the short and stops pumping current. That is the core of my quarter test. Otherwise if something isnt working, something will begin to fry and smoke in a few moments.
I too dont know anything about the Bachmann EZ and out of ignorance, fear it's too "Dumb" not to stop creating current when the short is made at the quarter.
Safety Valve wrote: The Quarter test really demonstrates if the booster or command station sees the short and stops pumping current. That is the core of my quarter test. Otherwise if something isnt working, something will begin to fry and smoke in a few moments.I too dont know anything about the Bachmann EZ and out of ignorance, fear it's too "Dumb" not to stop creating current when the short is made at the quarter.
Understood, but I also thought the quarter test was used to see if the power drop was too much because the command station wouldn't be able to sense the short and would not shut down. You just keep moving down the track away from the powerfeed until the unit doesn't shut down. Then install some feeders and see if the unit now senses the short. Maybe the EZ won't work that way.
jktrains wrote: Safety Valve wrote: The Quarter test really demonstrates if the booster or command station sees the short and stops pumping current. That is the core of my quarter test. Otherwise if something isnt working, something will begin to fry and smoke in a few moments.I too dont know anything about the Bachmann EZ and out of ignorance, fear it's too "Dumb" not to stop creating current when the short is made at the quarter.Understood, but I also thought the quarter test was used to see if the power drop was too much because the command station wouldn't be able to sense the short and would not shut down. You just keep moving down the track away from the powerfeed until the unit doesn't shut down. Then install some feeders and see if the unit now senses the short. Maybe the EZ won't work that way.
Hmm. insightful. I didnt think of it that way, that is a even better reason to have it.
I do my feeders at least every 6 feet maybe more often from what I learned with the Kato track's voltage drop.
Im still installing circut breakers anyhow. That way if one trips on the bank, I have a good idea where to start.
Alright, we're throwing around the words power, current, and voltage, and saying some things that don't quite work. Power is the combination of current and voltage. So, here's the thing. If you've got too much voltage drop between the booster and the train adding more current capacity to the booster won't help. The current being drawn at the loco stays the same, the output voltage of the booster stays the same, the drop stays the same. The only exception to this would be if the current capacity of the booster was being exceeded, then one way it could react would be to have its output voltage decrease, which would be a problem. But, assuming I'm understanding correctly, he is running fewer locomotives than he was running successfully before his changes, so there should be enough current available.
I'd like to know how one locomotive works, near and far from the power station. Heck, from Ken's description (and I don't meant this is a critical way), it may be there isn't any problem at all. If a percieved change in volume is the only symptom, maybe everything's good. If we really want to know what's going on, we're going to need to do some measuring. I've got some ideas there, but I've got to go, so it might be a while before I get back to it.....
twomule wrote:I have EZ, when a short occurs, it shuts down (flashes light / sound) . Its self contained, needs no other source for power. (besides a 115v outlet)
Dean is correct. When a short occurs, the E-Z Command "chatters" and blinks rapidly until the source of the short is removed or eliminated. The E-Z Command is a tethered DCC system and is self-contained. It comes with its own wall transformer or wall wart.
Vail "I'd like to know how one locomotive works, near and far from the power station. Heck, from Ken's description (and I don't meant this is a critical way), it may be there isn't any problem at all. If a percieved change in volume is the only symptom, maybe everything's good."
Speed as a whole stays the same all the way around the bench, what speed change that does happen is from the grade's that are in my bench work. I have had one section that has cropped up that needs feeders but that was after I started this post. Where I changed the 18" turns to 22" turns there are no feeders. Reason it was a passing siding and I use Peaco turns outs to kill the power to one siding to the other. It was all so DC only so no sound and did not need much in power. My BLI Class J started to stop in the center between the two turns outs but sound keept going. Tonight I found carbon in between the blades and rails. Cleaned them and no power drop in the center. There will be some feeders added. Now that it is all DCC I do not need to shut down the power to stop a train.
One of the reason I thought about more power is even tho I have ran 4 sound engines off the 1 amp Bachmann is I keep reading that it will only power 2 ?
Vail, thank you for giving me a little wake up call as well. One thing I know in the Car world is power means nothing! If there is no traction there is no action. Guess the electical stuff follows the same rules. If I had 40 amps and cannot get it to the bench all the way around there would still be problems.
Now with that said I will be calling MRC to see if it will work with the E Z Command. Reason is with the new section and loving doubled headed engines I do want to be able to power 10 plus engines. Before I went all DCC my a line ran 4 F3 Monon draging 55 cars.
Tom, as far as the Tim Allen he is my Hero. But I never had to vist a E R because of to much power.
Mopar Ken posting again