Ye Olde Floquil Paint

[ss122]

It's been 15 years since I've airbrushed anything, and I recently came across a box of old, unused Floquil paint. The pigment and vehicle have separated, but they aren't dried out. Should I keep them,, or just start over with the newer water based products. I have a double action Pasche airbrush. I model the New Haven RR 1950s-60s, so any paint recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks, Ken

[mondotrains]

Hi Ken,

If you're not going to be using a vented spray booth which will keep the vapors out of your lungs and your home, then I'd switch to water-based arylic paint for airbrushing.  I've received a lot of solid information on this forum regarding the dangers of solvent-based paints and I stay away from them because I live in a condo and have no way of venting my spray booth outside.  I've found that I can airbrush with acrylics safely.  My spraybooth removes all the particulates of the water-based acrylics but it wouldn't be able to remove the solvents from the air.

By the way, read the thread on this froum regarding Delta Ceramcoat paints where I've mentioned how I use them for airbrushing successfully.

 

Hope this helps.

Mondo

 

[Cox 47]

I would toss them I have never been able to get them to spray very well after they separate...Might keep to brush paint for weathering....Cox 47

[loathar]

Can't hurt to try. I had some that were about 7 years old that still worked OK. If they don't work with the airbrush, keep them for brush painting. Make sure you use a compatable thinner or that old stuff will clump up.(try and use a strainer on the airbrush too)

[Railphotog]

I still have a lot of Floquil paint, some new, some really old.  It always separates out when sitting around.  I stir it up until there are no more lumps, then shake the closed bottle before using.   If the bottles are half empty or so, then the paint may not be suitable for airbrushing because it would have reacted with the air in the bottle.  Good for brushing, but sometimes difficult to thin and apply properly to get a good coat when airbrushing.

 

 

[ndbprr]

I have no experience but either soaking it hot water or GENTLY microwaving it after removing the cap might help getting things back together.  I stick to Floquil.  Airbrushing the water based stuff is an entirely different animal and for me a learning curve I still haven't mastered.

[dstarr]

It's been 15 years since I've airbrushed anything, and I recently came across a box of old, unused Floquil paint. The pigment and vehicle have separated, but they aren't dried out. Should I keep them,, or just start over with the newer water based products. I have a double action Pasche airbrush. I model the New Haven RR 1950s-60s, so any paint recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks, Ken

  It doesn't take long (months) for the pigment to settle in a Floquil jar of paint.  If you can shake it up and get the binder and pigment to mix properly the paint is probably OK.  When I open a jar of model paint I drop a small bit of metal (a nut, a bolt, whatever) inside the jar like the rattle ball in a spray can.  Makes it easier to mix by shaking the jar.  Floquil is a lacquer that dries by solvent evaporation and so it is good as long as it doesn't get lumpy.  For occasional hobby spraying, I'd be happy with just an open window in the shop, although some famity members may complain about the odor.  

 

[ss122]

Thanks, all, for your answers. I think I'll try some of the old stuff on some trial shells, then maybe some real models if I like the results, but transition to newer, water based paints as the old stuff is used up.   Ken

[Tom Curtin]

Depending on just how old your Floquil paint is, it could have been made with the original "Dio-sol" solvent Floquil used which was XYLENE.  Warning: this stuff is very toxic, more toxic than your average paint solvent --- and very flammable.  It was also the stuff that was infamous for attacking plastic.  In more recent years Floquil changed their solvent based paints to a petroleum distillate base which is safer to work with (somewhat less toxic and less flammable) and does not attack plastic.  I think they still use their proprietary trade name "Dio-sol" for the distillate solvent even though it is not longer xylene.

[bogp40]

As long as the bottle has been properly sealed and at least 3/4 full, I find that the paint is generally still suitable for airbrushing. Once the paint develops any skim layer, don't stir to mix. I have reused skimmed over paints by breaking the hardened layer and pouring the paint into another bottle. Usually this paint is only good for brushing, but in a pinch successful airbrushing has been done once thinned and strained. I found that once opened I can prolong the life of solvent paints by keeping the cap perfectly clean and placing a small piece of plastic over the bottle treads before screwing on the cap. As already mentioned, the air trapped in the bottle will react w/ the paint. Never pour any already thinned paint back into the jar. Even the Dio-Sol would cause gelling and render the paint useless. I will only shake new bottles of paint to mix. Once opened the cap and threads will become hardened with paint if not thoughly cleaned before resealing. (the reason for using the plastic to reaseal) Some of my Floequil and Scalecoat is over 12 years old. Still love the quality of the paint and coverage, I just haven't mastered the use of acrylics and still feel that the paint is too transparent and will hide some detail. The age of solvents is comming to an end and we will have to bite the bullet someday soon.

[steamage]

I really like using Floquil paint but can not find cans of pint or quart thinner anymore. I guess if I want to airbrush a model I have to buy thinner in the standard paint size bottle. Thats just stupid!

[bogp40]

I really like using Floquil paint but can not find cans of pint or quart thinner anymore. I guess if I want to airbrush a model I have to buy thinner in the standard paint size bottle. Thats just stupid!

When Dio-Sol was discontinued many years ago, I managed to stock up on as much as possible. I only use it to thin the paint to the 50/50 or so ratio. I will not waste this precious stuff for any brush/ bottle cleaning. Any general purpose paint thinner will do for this. So if you can still find the Floequil thinner just use it only to thin the paint.

I had an analysis done on the old Dio-Sol when working in a lab. Although it wasn't a conplete breakdown, the initial tests were as most of us know. The origional nasty Dio-Sol was Toululene and Xylene about 60/40. Both real bad stuff. Real good ventilation is a must.

The original old Dio-Sol is #150001, the newer tamer airbrush thinner is #151611. I have found that in some cases a primer or barrier is needed w/ the new thinner. A few times when painting stripped bare plastic some crazing occured. This never ever happened with the old Dio-Sol. Not sure where the reaction was, too wet on the raw plastic or maybe reacting w/ residue from any paint still left on the shell.

[Tom Curtin]

I really like using Floquil paint but can not find cans of pint or quart thinner anymore. I guess if I want to airbrush a model I have to buy thinner in the standard paint size bottle. Thats just stupid!

If your paint has the newer distillate solvent, you will find you can get it, under many different labels. as follows:

1. Any paint and hardware sells, in both quarts and gallons "paint thinner."   Simply that.  Somwhere on the can it should say "petroleum distillate." 

2. Supermarkets sell charcoal lighter fluid which is the very same stuff, believe it or not.

[ss122]

Thanks Tom, you raise a good point. I'm sure my paint is from the xylene era, and I don't really want to expose myself to any of that (too expensive having to get all those liver function tests). Maybe it's time to go the water soluble route. If I can tap into your NH expertise, which currently available water based model based paint is closest to secony red? As far as the various NH greens are concerned, perhaps I should post that question on the NHRHTA forum ;).

Thanks again, Ken

[modelmaker51]

I have always used plain ol' laquer thinner with both Floquil and Scalecoat (original) paints without any adverse results and I've been airbrushing since the mid 70s. I did also always used Floquil's Barrier to prevent crazing on plastics (which was recommended with the old Diosol anyway).

I switched to acrylics as soon as they were introduced, the technique is a little different, but easy enough to pick up with a little practice and cleanup is so much easier and quicker. One of the differences that scares a lot of "old timers" off is that acrylics need to be applied a bit heavier, but they self-level and dry to a very thin finish, repeated coats should not obscure details. Yellows and reds need a grey or white primer, the rest of the colors are opaque with 2 to 3 coats.

If memory serves me, I believe both PolyScale and Modelflex have socony reds, but as you stated, getting in touch with the historical society is probably the best place to get accurate recomendations on color.

[BigRusty]

The instructions for the NHRHTA Clerestory Messenger car for Floquil paints:

NH #13 Pullman green - 3 parts #45 Pullman Green, 1 part #47 Coach Green, 1 part #70 Roof Brown, and 1 part #34 Brunswick Green

NH #401 Green - 3 parts #45 Pullman Green to 1 part #34 Brunswick Green.

NH Red-Orange (Socony Red) - 2 parts #136 SP Scarlet Red to 1 part #143 Amtrak Red.

I bought these colors from Micro Mark on line because the LHS no comprende.

[Tom Curtin]

Thanks Tom, you raise a good point. I'm sure my paint is from the xylene era, and I don't really want to expose myself to any of that (too expensive having to get all those liver function tests). Maybe it's time to go the water soluble route. If I can tap into your NH expertise, which currently available water based model based paint is closest to secony red? As far as the various NH greens are concerned, perhaps I should post that question on the NHRHTA forum ;).

Thanks again, Ken

I'm going to take the safe route and plead ignorance on this matter.  By all means post your question on the NHRHTA forum.  No doubt in my mind you will get a swift response (probably a number of swift responses)