tstage wrote: joe-daddy wrote:Proto 2000Pro QSI's Standby and Shutdown are MUST haves for me!Detail is adequate for my eyes and tasteJoe,Is there a "Pro" point 1 that you forgot to include, or did you add one line too many to your list?Tom
joe-daddy wrote:Proto 2000Pro QSI's Standby and Shutdown are MUST haves for me!Detail is adequate for my eyes and taste
Proto 2000
Pro
Joe,
Is there a "Pro" point 1 that you forgot to include, or did you add one line too many to your list?
Tom
It was a typo, though I thought I had fixed it before I posted it. Should be gone now.
And thanks for pointing it out!
Joe
selector wrote:P.S. - Tom, did you see the pm I sent a couple of days back?-Crandell
P.S. - Tom, did you see the pm I sent a couple of days back?
-Crandell
Crandell,
No. I just double-checked via the forum and don't see anything sent from you directly. When did you send it, Saturday?
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
selector wrote:Funny that Joe Daddy should mention one thing that has bugged me about my otherwise lovely 0-6-0, and that is the weakest link between the decoder and the motor afforded by that bizarre electrical coupling...that also acts like the drawbar! I have to give credit, it has worked 99% so far...I think I can attribute one electrical problem to the coupling actually splitting somewhat, but I was able to tighten it all and get the little, teensy-weensy plastic tabs to get ahold of their retainers again.A really gutsy design move if you ask me. P.S. - Tom, did you see the pm I sent a couple of days back?-Crandell
Funny that Joe Daddy should mention one thing that has bugged me about my otherwise lovely 0-6-0, and that is the weakest link between the decoder and the motor afforded by that bizarre electrical coupling...that also acts like the drawbar! I have to give credit, it has worked 99% so far...I think I can attribute one electrical problem to the coupling actually splitting somewhat, but I was able to tighten it all and get the little, teensy-weensy plastic tabs to get ahold of their retainers again.
A really gutsy design move if you ask me.
Crandall,
My 0-6-0 'electrical drawbar' separated and the locking tab on the lower side will not lock. Put more than one or two cars and it splits about every 15 minutes or so. Right now the engine is in its box while I am expanding my layout, it will get some work before it goes back into service.
Best regards,
Con
Having said all this, they are my favorite Steam and Diesel locomotives, although the Spectrum 2-8-0 has turned my head. I am waiting on my second one to be delivered.
My 2 cents
Regards,
Joe Daddy
CAZEPHYR wrote: Safety Valve wrote: Bottom Line, those Protos dont pull very good, Ive found it hard to pay 300-400 dollars retail plus tax for those things.Having said that, I feel that the prices are coming down to better levels and the engines seem to be improving a little bit. I choose them carefully. Ive focused on steam and am getting ready to order the two QSI Proto GP7's I think in the Chessie which I HOPE... have gotten past the gear problem with this new run. The early P2K without traction tires were useless for my money and I skipped all of them. However, the latest P2K Berkshires do have traction tires and pull well. I am not a fan of traction tires, but they do allow the P2K models to pull decent trains now. Cheers
Safety Valve wrote: Bottom Line, those Protos dont pull very good, Ive found it hard to pay 300-400 dollars retail plus tax for those things.Having said that, I feel that the prices are coming down to better levels and the engines seem to be improving a little bit. I choose them carefully. Ive focused on steam and am getting ready to order the two QSI Proto GP7's I think in the Chessie which I HOPE... have gotten past the gear problem with this new run.
Bottom Line, those Protos dont pull very good, Ive found it hard to pay 300-400 dollars retail plus tax for those things.
Having said that, I feel that the prices are coming down to better levels and the engines seem to be improving a little bit. I choose them carefully. Ive focused on steam and am getting ready to order the two QSI Proto GP7's I think in the Chessie which I HOPE... have gotten past the gear problem with this new run.
The early P2K without traction tires were useless for my money and I skipped all of them. However, the latest P2K Berkshires do have traction tires and pull well.
I am not a fan of traction tires, but they do allow the P2K models to pull decent trains now.
Cheers
I'd druther pull more than 8 or 9 cars on the 1% grade and traction tires is a small price to pay IMHO. Pretty hard to tell they are there unless you specifically look for them.
My
tstage, you are correct,
I did mean the 0-8-0 switcher and not the 2-8-0.
You are correct about rhe Spectrum 2-8-0's as well as most of the other Spectrum models that they too are good runners. I am especially fond of the 2-6-6-2's I have they are excellent low speed runners. I recently obtained a Mantua 2-6-6-2 in the GN colours but have yet to even break it in properly.
don7 wrote:I have a couple of Proto 2000 engines, the 2-8-4 and the 2-8-0, both are great running engines and I have no problems with them re: turnouts, etc.
Don,
Did you mean 0-8-0 instead of 2-8-0? The only 2-8-0 that I know of is the Bachmann Spectrum, which is a very nice locomotive.
I have the 2-8-8-2 and the 0-8-0. Both were early runs. Cosmetically they are VERY nice. The Mallet is cosmetically nicer than my diecast/brass composite Powerhouse from Oriental (and manufactured by Samhongsa as a "poor man's brass substitute"), is beaten in looks only by the finest all-brass models. Running qualities also very good in terms of electrical pick-up and smoothness, but pulling power is only so-so - OK on the level but somewhat lacking on my 2% grades. Disassembling in order to add weight looks like a rather daunting task, I am looking for a deal on a second mallet and double-head.
Having said all that, these locomotives are not worth the full MSRP.
I have a couple of Proto 2000 engines, a 2-8-4 and a 0-8-0 both are great running engines and I have no problems with them re: turnouts, etc. They are both without sound. I bought them both off e-bay for around $150 and $100 each. Otherwise just too expensive
The LHS has the same two engines in his display case market at around the $350 mark, he indicates that is because of the expense of bringing in these into Canada.
I would not have purchased th Proto's for more than what I paid, if forced to pay full price they are just too expensive. I noticed that most of those reporting back as to having the Protos have also mentioned by in large they purchased the units in most cases well below retail.
I also have a number of BLI which I have purchased from various Discount hobby shops such as Trainworld and have only ended up paying around $150 each and they are with sound.
No comparison, the BLI are just as good as the Proto and I also have a couple of Spectrum which I think are excellent buys, they are the 2-6-6-2's which in my opinion run just as good as the Proto or BLI units.
challenger3980 wrote: VAPEURCHAPELON wrote: Darth Santa Fe wrote:I haven't seen them run, but my LHS has a few 0-6-0s (which have gathered quite a lot of dust) on display, and they are the best detailed steam engines I've ever seen, plastic or brass!Then you did not see nice brass models!I saw the Proto 0-8-0 and 0-6-0, and they are very nice I have to agree. But I cannot live with the double articulation of the 2-8-8-2 (or any other plastic articulated), so I would stay away from these because the serious modeller could use them only on straight track...The Proto 2-8-4 is well detailed, too - but has the ugliest driving wheels I have ever seen on recent models. I am astounished that this is AT ALL possible on today's models. These wheels destroy any illusion, as does double articulation, so I don't see any sense of high levels of detail otherwise. Sounds like a little elitist rivet counting to me, some folks just don't have the room for the curves required for for models like these to run without double articulation. I guess that means they just should not have any available to them. Fortunately Supply/Demand economics say otherwise, and there is a HUGE demand, as well as supply. Evidently VERY many people disagree with you, because locomotives like these have been, and continue to be excellent sellers/profit makers. I personally have a VERY large collection of Lionel HO challengers ( I suspect one of the largest private collections in the country) as well as two Trix Bigboys and two Proto 2000 2-8-8-2s all of which are Great Looking and Great running locomotives. During our club's (Columbia Gorge Model Railroad Club) open houses the Lionel Challengers not only get a lot of track time, they also get a LOT of compliments, never anyone even looking like they think that the double articulation has DESTROYED any illusion of detail or appearance. The prototype Bigboy would require a minimum 40 inch radius curve in HO, that just is not practical on very many layouts other than clubs. And our layout room is 4200 square feet and we still have a minimum 36" radius on the main lines. I am sure that I don't need to ask your opinion of my Lionel LionMaster series O-Gauge articulateds, 2 Challengers, 1 Cab-Forward and 1 Bigboys that will run 0-31 curves (15 1/2" radius) all day long without blinking. Bottom line, the trains are meant to be FUN, and a stress reliever. So if someone else enjoys something, that doesn't mean that You have to buy it, but there is no need to Belittle, or say derogatory things about something that makes someone else HAPPY( I personally just LOVE those O-Gauge articulateds, but they would likely make You cringe) Get off your High Horse and Live and let Live. Enjoy what You like without being a Snob to someone who enjoys something different than You. Doug
VAPEURCHAPELON wrote: Darth Santa Fe wrote:I haven't seen them run, but my LHS has a few 0-6-0s (which have gathered quite a lot of dust) on display, and they are the best detailed steam engines I've ever seen, plastic or brass!Then you did not see nice brass models!I saw the Proto 0-8-0 and 0-6-0, and they are very nice I have to agree. But I cannot live with the double articulation of the 2-8-8-2 (or any other plastic articulated), so I would stay away from these because the serious modeller could use them only on straight track...The Proto 2-8-4 is well detailed, too - but has the ugliest driving wheels I have ever seen on recent models. I am astounished that this is AT ALL possible on today's models. These wheels destroy any illusion, as does double articulation, so I don't see any sense of high levels of detail otherwise.
Darth Santa Fe wrote:I haven't seen them run, but my LHS has a few 0-6-0s (which have gathered quite a lot of dust) on display, and they are the best detailed steam engines I've ever seen, plastic or brass!
Then you did not see nice brass models!
I saw the Proto 0-8-0 and 0-6-0, and they are very nice I have to agree. But I cannot live with the double articulation of the 2-8-8-2 (or any other plastic articulated), so I would stay away from these because the serious modeller could use them only on straight track...
The Proto 2-8-4 is well detailed, too - but has the ugliest driving wheels I have ever seen on recent models. I am astounished that this is AT ALL possible on today's models. These wheels destroy any illusion, as does double articulation, so I don't see any sense of high levels of detail otherwise.
Sounds like a little elitist rivet counting to me, some folks just don't have the room for the curves required for for models like these to run without double articulation. I guess that means they just should not have any available to them. Fortunately Supply/Demand economics say otherwise, and there is a HUGE demand, as well as supply. Evidently VERY many people disagree with you, because locomotives like these have been, and continue to be excellent sellers/profit makers.
I personally have a VERY large collection of Lionel HO challengers ( I suspect one of the largest private collections in the country) as well as two Trix Bigboys and two Proto 2000 2-8-8-2s all of which are Great Looking and Great running locomotives. During our club's (Columbia Gorge Model Railroad Club) open houses the Lionel Challengers not only get a lot of track time, they also get a LOT of compliments, never anyone even looking like they think that the double articulation has DESTROYED any illusion of detail or appearance. The prototype Bigboy would require a minimum 40 inch radius curve in HO, that just is not practical on very many layouts other than clubs. And our layout room is 4200 square feet and we still have a minimum 36" radius on the main lines.
I am sure that I don't need to ask your opinion of my Lionel LionMaster series O-Gauge articulateds, 2 Challengers, 1 Cab-Forward and 1 Bigboys that will run 0-31 curves (15 1/2" radius) all day long without blinking.
Bottom line, the trains are meant to be FUN, and a stress reliever. So if someone else enjoys something, that doesn't mean that You have to buy it, but there is no need to Belittle, or say derogatory things about something that makes someone else HAPPY( I personally just LOVE those O-Gauge articulateds, but they would likely make You cringe) Get off your High Horse and Live and let Live. Enjoy what You like without being a Snob to someone who enjoys something different than You.
Doug
Doug.
Ease up, my friend, he was just stating a personal opinion. Which, if I understand correctly, is still allowed in this day and age.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
VAPEURCHAPELON wrote: Ahhh!! I watched the photos but read the titles later: I confused the Proto with the Division Point model!Though the tires of the Proto could be seen very good at your photo I cannot see the counter weights. So the question if it looks credible remains.Nevertheless thank you for these great photos.
Ahhh!! I watched the photos but read the titles later: I confused the Proto with the Division Point model!
Though the tires of the Proto could be seen very good at your photo I cannot see the counter weights. So the question if it looks credible remains.
Nevertheless thank you for these great photos.
The PSC side view is better and the last picture is of the P2K. They are great looking and run very well, but are not perfect like most any other model. The driver weights are acceptable now and the sound is very good. I did purchase the upgrade chips to deepen the chuff and add a better lower speed range. The problem with all of the HO model of the Berkshires is the thickness should be much more and the rods should be extended outward from the driver. That was the feature I always noticed on the prototype that only the S scale NKP Berkshire ever duplicated correctly to my satisfaction. The old PFM are OK, but are way less detailed than anything on the market today.
I posted a better picture of the P2K drivers and weights.
CAZEPHYR wrote:VapeurchapelonThe picture below was taken when the Berkshire was on a roller set breaking in, but you can see the tires fairly well in the shot. I downloaded two other pictures for comparisons to other models of the NKP S and S3. CAZEPHYRhttp://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=HOScale;action=display;num=1185107667
Vapeurchapelon
The picture below was taken when the Berkshire was on a roller set breaking in, but you can see the tires fairly well in the shot. I downloaded two other pictures for comparisons to other models of the NKP S and S3.
CAZEPHYR
http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=HOScale;action=display;num=1185107667
Have many Thanks! These drivers look great! Now this is a Berkshire I would buy! Seemingly Proto did upgrade them a second time. Last thing I would add is white paint to the tires - but that is no critique. Thanks again!
VAPEURCHAPELON wrote: CAZEPHYR wrote:The first run of the Proto 2-8-4 had drivers without tires and they were so lame, I did not buy any of them. However, the latest run and some of the other runs are right on and I did purchase two of the latest NKP S3's with sound. They are as nice as any of my brass except the Division Point model. CheersDo you could post a close up photo of the drivers of your model? The only photos I did find on the net are of the ugly wheels. I have read that Proto after the critiques produced a run with "improved driver appearence" - as they called it, and yes, they looked a bit better but the counterweights still were too large and reached far too much over the tires. One must turn them down to get it right. Did Proto improve that AGAIN? Then I would have real interest in such a model.
CAZEPHYR wrote:The first run of the Proto 2-8-4 had drivers without tires and they were so lame, I did not buy any of them. However, the latest run and some of the other runs are right on and I did purchase two of the latest NKP S3's with sound. They are as nice as any of my brass except the Division Point model. Cheers
Do you could post a close up photo of the drivers of your model? The only photos I did find on the net are of the ugly wheels. I have read that Proto after the critiques produced a run with "improved driver appearence" - as they called it, and yes, they looked a bit better but the counterweights still were too large and reached far too much over the tires. One must turn them down to get it right. Did Proto improve that AGAIN? Then I would have real interest in such a model.
challenger3980 wrote:Sounds like a little elitist rivet counting to me,
Because I am a steam locomotive mechanic, fireman and engineer myself. But I am not sitting on that high horse you are thinking of. I just want to have the BASIC dimensions right. I could live without working tender hatches, or cab windows, or extremely detailed cab interior, maybe even without brake rods, etc. In your eyes did I offend somebody? Ken asked for opinions concerning Proto steamers, I posted mine - and that's it. I even agreed that the switchers are great.
By the way: -prototypically articulated engines EASILY take 36" curves and #5 turnouts...
Ken,
I have two Proto 2000 0-8-0 switchers and they are real gems. Beautifully detailed and run like a swiss watch. Yea, if you buy them full MSRP, they're expensive: $250 w/o sound, $350 w/sound. However, I was able to pick up a non-sound DC version on eBay for only $80 & $90. I can always add sound if I want.
Ken, if you do get the 0-8-0, make sure that you buy the 2nd run. The 2nd runs have the traction tire and the full pick-ups in the tender so that you don't stall over turnouts. I've heard some very nice things about the new 2-10-2s.
The first run of the Proto 2-8-4 had drivers without tires and they were so lame, I did not buy any of them. However, the latest run and some of the other runs are right on and I did purchase two of the latest NKP S3's with sound. They are as nice as any of my brass except the Division Point model.
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
My favorite is a Mallet. I will try to post the video.
youtube.com/watch?v=pO1fjQDLFLc The title is Proto 2000 Mallet
Sue
Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.
I agree with Virginian 100%. My 0-8-0 and Berkshire 2-8-4 are the best HO scale steam locomotives I have ever had the pleasure to operate.