Looking at a Y-3 (I think I got that right) by Proto. Whay do you folks think of the PK2 steam engines? LHS thinks they are over priced for what they are. He prefers BLI's. How would you rate PK's steam vers BLI's?
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
I've got a P2K 0-6-0. It's a great little engine. It was my first sound engine, too. It doesn't have a lot of pulling power, but it's not a heavy engine and the problem is wheel slippage. It came with traction tires, but I haven't installed them.
I've also got a BLI Hudson 4-6-4. That's also a really nice engine. The sound in the Hudson is a bit muddier, particularly on the whistle. Actually, it sounds like a torn speaker cone, but nobody else has noticed it and I can live with it, if in fact that's what the problem is.
The 0-6-0 cost about $250, discounted at my LHS, and the Hudson only about $130 from Trainworld.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
In my not so humble opinion, the P2K Heritage steam engines are as good as it gets looks, detail, and mechanism wise. They lack a little weight to be the best pullers, but the latest versions also come with a set of traction tired drivers, so that should solve that issue henceforth.
I think I have 5 or 6 of the 2-8-8-2s, and love them. I did take them all apart to get the engines approximately 180 degrees out of synch the way I like, install LED lighting, and I changed the front cylinders on some (N&W retrofitted Y-5 front engines on some), and I almost needed more hands than I possess to get them back together. The parts all fit wonderfully for a plastic model, but man is that a trick lining up all those parts at once. I have weighted and repainted two, and they pull okay now. I prefer the articulation on plastic steam engines (both pivoted at the center of each engine) to the more realistic articulation (rear engine rigid, front engine pivoted from the rear) you find on brass models. It runs a lot smoother on a lot smaller curves, and is more forgiving of less than perfecto trackwork as well. Someday I will get around to adding sound, at least in a couple of the VGN ones. I also have the 0-8-0 and the 2-8-4 (in VGN of course - my 30 year holdout for something other than brass PAID OFF !!) and they both also run like Swiss watches.
I got a lot of great deals on eBay back when LifeLike was making these, and because of their fantastic, now long gone, forever to be loudly lamented, fabulous parts availability, I didn't worry about anything. I guess I paid about $135 average (?). I got the 2-8-4 from my late lamented LHS.
I could not give anything a higher recommendation than these.
_________________________________________________________________
Reinhard
I like them.
I was very disppointed in the Y3's lack of pull but... frankly it is very advanced with QSI and is smooth forward and backwards. Beats my BLI stuff and all hands down.
I have a Heavy 2-10-2 also from Proto and it is the best running engine in the entire roundhouse. I dont care for the floppy and loose drive side to side play but run large radius so it's not a problem.
I will buy more of them in the future. I can always use a helper with these engines.
Thanks for the answers guys.
I all so have a Hudson by BLI, at first it was a big pain in the butt and sat a lot. 2 Problems,
1 With a heavy load say 20 cars rear drive wheel would come off in a turn up a grade. Threw in half Oz of lead in the cab (will open engine later and do it right) and seems OK now.
2 Cooper spring would not keep the front trucks planted to the rails, it finaly broke off. Best thing to happen to the engine I will add! I added just a little over a 1/4 Oz of lead to the front truck and tracks very well now. (watch it derail the next time around)
I like the sound of it better than all the other sound engines I have at this point.
There are 2 driffrent PK Y-3's I am looking at both the same prices. Never have sound, 1 is at my LHS and at a internet store. One on line is DCC ready and LHS is DC only. If LHS will in stall a decoder I will go with it.
Can you install a 8 pin plug with out a decoder in a DC only engine? Reason I asked I was thinking about using the same decoder in two driffrent engines to save a little cash.
Darth let us know what you think of the 2-6-6-2 Rivarossi. It is all so a maker that my HLS says to stay away from. He has 3 big boys by Rivarossi with DCC for $228.00 but he says they run poorly. I will add Ken at K-10 Trains is not a big fan of steam engines.
Ken, all the P2K locos are DCC ready (not equipped) with a socket in the tender.
I didn't know Riv made a 2-6-6-2. Bachmann Spectrum does, and it is a rather small locomotive. Riv does make a 2-6-6-6, not small at all, and it is the latest technology, a far cry above the older Riv stuff. I don't know for sure, but I think there are both old and new Riv 4-8-8-4s, and 4-8-4s out there, so watch what you get.
Ken--
I've heard very good reports about the latest runs of the Proto 2000 steamers. I've got two of the earlier runs, their USRA 0-8-0 and their 2-8-8-2, which I find are beautifully detailed but very lacking in the pulling department. It's kind of put me off of investing in any more Proto steamers. However, as I said, I understand that their later runs (with traction tires) are very good pullers. However, I'd look for discounts, as I think their retail prices are pretty high.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
cudaken wrote: Thanks for the answers guys. I all so have a Hudson by BLI, at first it was a big pain in the butt and sat a lot. 2 Problems,1 With a heavy load say 20 cars rear drive wheel would come off in a turn up a grade. Threw in half Oz of lead in the cab (will open engine later and do it right) and seems OK now....
...
Twenty cars on an HO scale Hudson?!! Going uphill and around a curve, no less?!! Good God, Magnum!
Remember from your earlier thread(s), just because the real thing can do it doesn't mean the HO scale model can and/or should.
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
My minimum is 15 cars on a 3% with a little slip. Being able to stop/hold and restart this train is a very big plus in my home. My BLI Heavy Mike did 16 on a 3% under these conditions a few times. I can run 24-26 uphill with the M1a also from BLI. But I like to hold the M1 down to about 16 cars so it can restart this train on the grade should it be stopped.
The reason for the 15 car standard on 3% is I dont have room to run longer trains. I do have a ABBA Set capable of putting down one pound or so of TE and at that point I can run any train I want to up any grade out there.
Most of the locos -- steam and diesel on my layout -- are Proto 2000 (or 1000 in one case). Most were bought as DCC and some I installed DCC into.
I have mostly DCC simply because my experience has been good with them and I wanted some sort of standardization.
I also have BLI, Atlas and Athearn Genesis locos as well as a TrueLine C-Liner. All DCC and my experience with all of them has been satisfactory.
c
Craig
DMW
Magnum, is that a Mopar thing? If so I like it being Cuda Ken and all. So you think 20 cars are to many for a Hudson? My Heavy Mike BLI after cleaning the wheels with 600 grit sand paper has pulled 30 cars. My M1a has pulled 35 cars (will add I am on the second set of center gears) and Class class J has pulled 40 cars.
Will up date later about the PK2 steamer.
Cuda Ken Draging way to much again.
I agree with Virginian 100%. My 0-8-0 and Berkshire 2-8-4 are the best HO scale steam locomotives I have ever had the pleasure to operate.
Ken,
My favorite is a Mallet. I will try to post the video.
youtube.com/watch?v=pO1fjQDLFLc The title is Proto 2000 Mallet
Sue
Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.
Darth Santa Fe wrote:I haven't seen them run, but my LHS has a few 0-6-0s (which have gathered quite a lot of dust) on display, and they are the best detailed steam engines I've ever seen, plastic or brass!
Then you did not see nice brass models!
I saw the Proto 0-8-0 and 0-6-0, and they are very nice I have to agree. But I cannot live with the double articulation of the 2-8-8-2 (or any other plastic articulated), so I would stay away from these because the serious modeller could use them only on straight track...
The Proto 2-8-4 is well detailed, too - but has the ugliest driving wheels I have ever seen on recent models. I am astounished that this is AT ALL possible on today's models. These wheels destroy any illusion, as does double articulation, so I don't see any sense of high levels of detail otherwise.
VAPEURCHAPELON wrote: Darth Santa Fe wrote:I haven't seen them run, but my LHS has a few 0-6-0s (which have gathered quite a lot of dust) on display, and they are the best detailed steam engines I've ever seen, plastic or brass!Then you did not see nice brass models!I saw the Proto 0-8-0 and 0-6-0, and they are very nice I have to agree. But I cannot live with the double articulation of the 2-8-8-2 (or any other plastic articulated), so I would stay away from these because the serious modeller could use them only on straight track...The Proto 2-8-4 is well detailed, too - but has the ugliest driving wheels I have ever seen on recent models. I am astounished that this is AT ALL possible on today's models. These wheels destroy any illusion, as does double articulation, so I don't see any sense of high levels of detail otherwise.
Sounds like a little elitist rivet counting to me, some folks just don't have the room for the curves required for for models like these to run without double articulation. I guess that means they just should not have any available to them. Fortunately Supply/Demand economics say otherwise, and there is a HUGE demand, as well as supply. Evidently VERY many people disagree with you, because locomotives like these have been, and continue to be excellent sellers/profit makers.
I personally have a VERY large collection of Lionel HO challengers ( I suspect one of the largest private collections in the country) as well as two Trix Bigboys and two Proto 2000 2-8-8-2s all of which are Great Looking and Great running locomotives. During our club's (Columbia Gorge Model Railroad Club) open houses the Lionel Challengers not only get a lot of track time, they also get a LOT of compliments, never anyone even looking like they think that the double articulation has DESTROYED any illusion of detail or appearance. The prototype Bigboy would require a minimum 40 inch radius curve in HO, that just is not practical on very many layouts other than clubs. And our layout room is 4200 square feet and we still have a minimum 36" radius on the main lines.
I am sure that I don't need to ask your opinion of my Lionel LionMaster series O-Gauge articulateds, 2 Challengers, 1 Cab-Forward and 1 Bigboys that will run 0-31 curves (15 1/2" radius) all day long without blinking.
Bottom line, the trains are meant to be FUN, and a stress reliever. So if someone else enjoys something, that doesn't mean that You have to buy it, but there is no need to Belittle, or say derogatory things about something that makes someone else HAPPY( I personally just LOVE those O-Gauge articulateds, but they would likely make You cringe) Get off your High Horse and Live and let Live. Enjoy what You like without being a Snob to someone who enjoys something different than You.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
The first run of the Proto 2-8-4 had drivers without tires and they were so lame, I did not buy any of them. However, the latest run and some of the other runs are right on and I did purchase two of the latest NKP S3's with sound. They are as nice as any of my brass except the Division Point model.
Cheers
I have two Proto 2000 0-8-0 switchers and they are real gems. Beautifully detailed and run like a swiss watch. Yea, if you buy them full MSRP, they're expensive: $250 w/o sound, $350 w/sound. However, I was able to pick up a non-sound DC version on eBay for only $80 & $90. I can always add sound if I want.
Ken, if you do get the 0-8-0, make sure that you buy the 2nd run. The 2nd runs have the traction tire and the full pick-ups in the tender so that you don't stall over turnouts. I've heard some very nice things about the new 2-10-2s.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
challenger3980 wrote:Sounds like a little elitist rivet counting to me,
Because I am a steam locomotive mechanic, fireman and engineer myself. But I am not sitting on that high horse you are thinking of. I just want to have the BASIC dimensions right. I could live without working tender hatches, or cab windows, or extremely detailed cab interior, maybe even without brake rods, etc. In your eyes did I offend somebody? Ken asked for opinions concerning Proto steamers, I posted mine - and that's it. I even agreed that the switchers are great.
By the way: -prototypically articulated engines EASILY take 36" curves and #5 turnouts...
CAZEPHYR wrote:The first run of the Proto 2-8-4 had drivers without tires and they were so lame, I did not buy any of them. However, the latest run and some of the other runs are right on and I did purchase two of the latest NKP S3's with sound. They are as nice as any of my brass except the Division Point model. Cheers
Do you could post a close up photo of the drivers of your model? The only photos I did find on the net are of the ugly wheels. I have read that Proto after the critiques produced a run with "improved driver appearence" - as they called it, and yes, they looked a bit better but the counterweights still were too large and reached far too much over the tires. One must turn them down to get it right. Did Proto improve that AGAIN? Then I would have real interest in such a model.
VAPEURCHAPELON wrote: CAZEPHYR wrote:The first run of the Proto 2-8-4 had drivers without tires and they were so lame, I did not buy any of them. However, the latest run and some of the other runs are right on and I did purchase two of the latest NKP S3's with sound. They are as nice as any of my brass except the Division Point model. CheersDo you could post a close up photo of the drivers of your model? The only photos I did find on the net are of the ugly wheels. I have read that Proto after the critiques produced a run with "improved driver appearence" - as they called it, and yes, they looked a bit better but the counterweights still were too large and reached far too much over the tires. One must turn them down to get it right. Did Proto improve that AGAIN? Then I would have real interest in such a model.
Vapeurchapelon
The picture below was taken when the Berkshire was on a roller set breaking in, but you can see the tires fairly well in the shot. I downloaded two other pictures for comparisons to other models of the NKP S and S3.
CAZEPHYR
http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=HOScale;action=display;num=1185107667
CAZEPHYR wrote:VapeurchapelonThe picture below was taken when the Berkshire was on a roller set breaking in, but you can see the tires fairly well in the shot. I downloaded two other pictures for comparisons to other models of the NKP S and S3. CAZEPHYRhttp://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=HOScale;action=display;num=1185107667
Have many Thanks! These drivers look great! Now this is a Berkshire I would buy! Seemingly Proto did upgrade them a second time. Last thing I would add is white paint to the tires - but that is no critique. Thanks again!
Ahhh!! I watched the photos but read the titles later: I confused the Proto with the Division Point model!
Though the tires of the Proto could be seen very good at your photo I cannot see the counter weights. So the question if it looks credible remains.
Nevertheless thank you for these great photos.
VAPEURCHAPELON wrote: Ahhh!! I watched the photos but read the titles later: I confused the Proto with the Division Point model!Though the tires of the Proto could be seen very good at your photo I cannot see the counter weights. So the question if it looks credible remains.Nevertheless thank you for these great photos.
The PSC side view is better and the last picture is of the P2K. They are great looking and run very well, but are not perfect like most any other model. The driver weights are acceptable now and the sound is very good. I did purchase the upgrade chips to deepen the chuff and add a better lower speed range. The problem with all of the HO model of the Berkshires is the thickness should be much more and the rods should be extended outward from the driver. That was the feature I always noticed on the prototype that only the S scale NKP Berkshire ever duplicated correctly to my satisfaction. The old PFM are OK, but are way less detailed than anything on the market today.
I posted a better picture of the P2K drivers and weights.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
challenger3980 wrote: VAPEURCHAPELON wrote: Darth Santa Fe wrote:I haven't seen them run, but my LHS has a few 0-6-0s (which have gathered quite a lot of dust) on display, and they are the best detailed steam engines I've ever seen, plastic or brass!Then you did not see nice brass models!I saw the Proto 0-8-0 and 0-6-0, and they are very nice I have to agree. But I cannot live with the double articulation of the 2-8-8-2 (or any other plastic articulated), so I would stay away from these because the serious modeller could use them only on straight track...The Proto 2-8-4 is well detailed, too - but has the ugliest driving wheels I have ever seen on recent models. I am astounished that this is AT ALL possible on today's models. These wheels destroy any illusion, as does double articulation, so I don't see any sense of high levels of detail otherwise. Sounds like a little elitist rivet counting to me, some folks just don't have the room for the curves required for for models like these to run without double articulation. I guess that means they just should not have any available to them. Fortunately Supply/Demand economics say otherwise, and there is a HUGE demand, as well as supply. Evidently VERY many people disagree with you, because locomotives like these have been, and continue to be excellent sellers/profit makers. I personally have a VERY large collection of Lionel HO challengers ( I suspect one of the largest private collections in the country) as well as two Trix Bigboys and two Proto 2000 2-8-8-2s all of which are Great Looking and Great running locomotives. During our club's (Columbia Gorge Model Railroad Club) open houses the Lionel Challengers not only get a lot of track time, they also get a LOT of compliments, never anyone even looking like they think that the double articulation has DESTROYED any illusion of detail or appearance. The prototype Bigboy would require a minimum 40 inch radius curve in HO, that just is not practical on very many layouts other than clubs. And our layout room is 4200 square feet and we still have a minimum 36" radius on the main lines. I am sure that I don't need to ask your opinion of my Lionel LionMaster series O-Gauge articulateds, 2 Challengers, 1 Cab-Forward and 1 Bigboys that will run 0-31 curves (15 1/2" radius) all day long without blinking. Bottom line, the trains are meant to be FUN, and a stress reliever. So if someone else enjoys something, that doesn't mean that You have to buy it, but there is no need to Belittle, or say derogatory things about something that makes someone else HAPPY( I personally just LOVE those O-Gauge articulateds, but they would likely make You cringe) Get off your High Horse and Live and let Live. Enjoy what You like without being a Snob to someone who enjoys something different than You. Doug
Doug.
Ease up, my friend, he was just stating a personal opinion. Which, if I understand correctly, is still allowed in this day and age.