Ink washes--what am I doing wrong?

[warhammerdriver]

I mixed up 4 batches of india ink/alcohol washes--1, 2, 3, and 4 drops per 3 oz alcohol.  They all appear to be too light.  Did I use too much alcohol?  Should I mix smaller batches?

[MisterBeasley]

Yeah, that sounds a bit light to me.  But, the idea of washes is that you only get a bit of the effect each time, so you don't overdo it.  Apply a wash, and if it's too light, do it again.

[Casey Feedwater]

The "standard" mixes - used by most "craftsman-level modelers" - are as follows: 1 tsp. ink to 1 pint of alcohol (for a light stain) 1-1/2 tsp. ink to 1 pint of alcohol (for a moderately dark stain). [This is the one I personally use most often for staining stripwood.] 2 tsp. ink to 1 pint of alcohol (for a dark stain) Most inexpensive drawing inks are dye-based and will readily mix. Some, such as Dr. Ph. Martins, are pigmented. They mix well but settle out of solution over time and will require the old "shake well" treatment before using. I mix mine right in the pint bottles and store it that way. For working amounts, I just fill a 3/4oz. airbrush jar (because the lid seals and prevents the alcohol from evaporating over time) and afix a small maksing tape label to the lid. There are also variations on these, such as mixing brown ink with black ink in varying ratios to make "warmer" grey tones when the stripwood is stained and then dried. Also, a lot of craftsman modelers use 90% alcohol instead of the more common 70% because of the lower water content in the 90% variety. Some swear by 99% but I have never been able to find it locally in any of our pharmacies.

[colvinbackshop]

Casey is right on the mark with ratios (very much the same as I use), but I want to add one additional comment.

Because of the reaction alcohol has on "some" finishes, I also have mixes of Ink and water. They work a bit differently and are not right for every application (lots of water and stripwood don't get along well, for example), but when washing a lacquer finish or where the use of a solvent may attack paint, glue...what ever, the water mix works well.

[gear-jammer]

Because of the reaction alcohol has on "some" finishes, I also have mixes of Ink and water. They work a bit differently and are not right for every application (lots of water and stripwood don't get along well, for example), but when washing a lacquer finish or where the use of a solvent may attack paint, glue...what ever, the water mix works well.

This note on alcohol on lacquer finish may explain some of the color leaching that occurred on some of my rocks.  I will try water instead of alcohol not my next rock surface.

Sue

[colvinbackshop]

Sue, when you mention "color leaching"; is that a white-ish fogging, hazing type of thing that's going on? If, yes, that is a reaction of the lacquer caused by the alcohol.

It's not a bad way to add some extra weather (a VERY faded boxcar or streaking on a car, for example) after a coat of Dulcoat (lacquer), but can be very disturbing when you get a "look" that you weren't trying for.

BTW, what is the status of the Shay's? I don't want to jump that onto this thread...But I'm wondering. Catch me at the Barn, I'll be there later.

[gear-jammer]

Sue, when you mention "color leaching"; is that a white-ish fogging, hazing type of thing that's going on? If, yes, that is a reaction of the lacquer caused by the alcohol.

When you do the bargdon geodesic foam rocks, you spray white lacques paint on the vaseline as a mold release.  After 3-4 coats the paint layer seemed to come off in places.  Joel did mention diluting with water, but I have done so much with alcohol that it was hard to use water.  By the time the vegetation is on the rocks, you really do not notice it, but I know it is there.

Thanks.  Sue

[AggroJones]

 

Add a few drops of max strenght hairspray into the mix and see what happens...

[rs2mike]

this is a good thead.  I am at the point of weathering and needed info on ink washes.  Thanks everyone

 

[ukguy]

Sue, if you give the area/s where the unwanted white has appeared a shot of dullcoat the dullcoat will disolve the white residue caused by the original reaction of the alcohol and all will be back to how it was, except of course you will still have the darkening caused by the actual ink.

 (as always try it first in an inconspicuous place)

Regards,
Karl.A 

[sfcouple]

Sue,

I've found that when alcohol is applied, after Dullcote has been used, then one will see a whitish residue. There is a chemical reaction between Isopropyl Alcohol and dullcote. 

Regarding Ink Washes:  If I only need a small batch of a light colored wash 8 drops of ink to 1/2 oz of alcohol works for me.  If it is too dark, just add some more alcohol.

Wayne  

 

 

 

[rs2mike]

Which is better?  Ink washes or paint washes?

[ukguy]

Sue,

I've found that when alcohol is applied, after Dullcote has been used, then one will see a whitish residue. There is a chemical reaction between Isopropyl Alcohol and dullcote. 

Wayne  

 

This is true IF you put the alcohol on after the dullcoat, the alcohol will react with the dullcoat. However, if you have applied alcohol/ink first, when this is dry the alcohol has evaporated, thus if you then apply the dullcoat there is nothing to react with. Hence my suggestion to Sue.

If you have experienced the white residue due to A&I over dullcoat (and you dont want it), a final spay of dullcoat at the end will remove it.

Karl.A

 

 

 

[sfcouple]

Sue,

I've found that when alcohol is applied, after Dullcote has been used, then one will see a whitish residue. There is a chemical reaction between Isopropyl Alcohol and dullcote. 

Wayne  

 

This is true IF you put the alcohol on after the dullcoat, the alcohol will react with the dullcoat. However, if you have applied alcohol/ink first, when this is dry the alcohol has evaporated, thus if you then apply the dullcoat there is nothing to react with. Hence my suggestion to Sue.

If you have experienced the white residue due to A&I over dullcoat (and you dont want it), a final spay of dullcoat at the end will remove it.

Karl.A

 

Karl,

You are absolutely correct and I thank you for explaining this phenomena better than I did.  

Wayne   

[gandydancer19]

Which is better?  Ink washes or paint washes?

It really depends on what you are doing.  Raw plaster and raw wood work well with ink washes.  Standard weathering of painted surfaces work well with paint washes.  Of course there are always exceptions so it is best to experiment some.  Every case comes out different.  My washes are 10 parts thinning material to 1 part ink or paint.  When just getting started with either, test - test - test, before actually using them on something you treasure. 

[tatans]

Watch what you buy when buying "INDIA INK" the original is simply a type of soot or lampblack mixed with water, newer inks have shellac mixed in, As an antique draftsman we used large volumes of india ink and they were diluted with water when needed, never heard of diluting a water based product with alcohol, Some inks actually have acidic liquids added to etch mylar drawings, this could be a problem. Try an art store and talk to someone about paints and inks and their compositions, you may be in for a surprise.

[canazar]

Add a few drops of max strenght hairspray into the mix and see what happens...

 

Ah come on man, dont be a tease...  what happens?  I am always up for  a new trick, jut like to have an idea what to expect.

 

 

I would be afraid 91%-90 percent alcohol.  I have had some bad reactions to certain paints, most notably on older kits such as Rounhouse, MDC, and some old Athearn.   70% works well.

[wjstix]

You could always try a "dry" method, brushing on powdered charcoal and then using a paper towel with downstrokes to wipe off some of it. That leaves the 'dirt' in areas like between wood planks, louvers, etc. kinda like adding shadows and toning things down a bit. Nice thing too is that it's reversible...until you seal it in with a spray of flat finish, you can wash it off with soap and water and start over until you get it 'just right'.

[loathar]

Add a few drops of max strenght hairspray into the mix and see what happens...

 

Ah come on man, dont be a tease...  what happens?  I am always up for  a new trick, jut like to have an idea what to expect.

Dito^

[R. T. POTEET]

MisterBeasley, your response hit me right in the bread basket!

I tried an India ink-alcohol wash one time in a weathering attempt; I was so dissatisfied with the result that I gave up and never tried it again. My problem may very well have been that I gave up too soon!

[AggroJones]

Add a few drops of max strenght hairspray into the mix and see what happens...

 

Ah come on man, dont be a tease...  what happens?  I am always up for  a new trick, jut like to have an idea what to expect.

Dito^

 

Oh, the wash just smooths out more. Thats all.

[WP 3020]

I would be afraid 91%-90 percent alcohol.  I have had some bad reactions to certain paints, most notably on older kits such as Rounhouse, MDC, and some old Athearn.   70% works well.

I find it best to stick with the 70% stuff for washes and 90% for removing paint. I tried 90% once because I was out of 70% and the ink didn't mix well with it and it made a mess of a Red Caboose boxcar paint job. Could have been the brand of ink but it was and is fine with the 70%.