IMHO, backdrops are the least worried about part of scenery that can actually make the biggest difference in our scenery. I respect all model railroaders but I can't help notice that many completed layouts are sorely lacking in quaility backdrops. I never understood this considering the amount of time and effort and money that we all put into our layouts. Sometimes it's just blue sky, or some clouds, and the latest fad I've heard about is overcast gray. Then, once in a while I will see a layout with a photo mural type backdrop and it takes my breath away.
When I started building the NY&P a few months ago, I promised myself that I would get the best photorealistic backdrops I could buy. I checked on the internet about a week ago and went to this site: http://allscalebackdrops.com/Start.htm and was absolutely blown away by the great backdrops. I said to myself this is it! Then I noticed that there were no prices. Uh oh, that's never a good sign, right? Sure enough, I did their demo in order to price some backdrops for me and when I was done and saw the price, my heart sank. Hundreds of dollars for an 8'x24" backdrop. And I needed at least three more, whoa boy!
To add insult to injury, one of the backdrops I found is actually the real background that you would see on part of my prototype railroad! I couldn't believe it - a picture of northern Manhattan which is exactly what you would see from the Highbridge Station on the NY&P (the Bronx overlooking Manhattan). Its as if it was custom made for me.
Now I am going to try and be real tactful here. I know that there are backdrops offered by Walthers and other very low priced options which I'm sure do a great job for most model RR's. The problem for the NY&P is that I have spots where the track gets real close to the backdrop and nothing less than photorealistc is going to look good (IMHO).
What I'm trying to get at is a discussion on backdrops. If you were me, would you drop a few hundred dollars on an awesome backdrop that matched your layout? I'm considering it. What do you use for a backdrop and why?
I guess when you consider all the details that some of us worry about like proper brake rigging, prototype wheels, etc. I really feel that overall as modelers we totally drop the ball on backdrops and I'm determined to make my backdrop as detailed as the rest of my layout. Is cost the issue? If so, don't we spend hundreds of dollars on other perhaps less important aspects of the layout?
Let the discussion begin!
All good points...
As for myself; I have always felt that a simple backdrop (blue sky, a few clouds and distant hills) kept the focus on the railroad and not the backdrop. I have seen some VERY nice, realtively detailed, backdrops and in all honesty, they haven't detracted form the "road". On the other hand I've seen some that are just "way too busy" to the point of being the focial point...Are we doing model railroading or mural painting here?
In your case with a very specfic place (and a busy one at that) I'm not sure how to respond. Maybe you really need that busy detail of the backdrop to convey dense population your diorama...If so, spend the money to really get the scene across.
Me...I'm doing mostly rural MN. The blue sky, a few clouds and some hills work just fine.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I guess you have to make this decision based on a healthy balance of emotion, logic ($), and gut feel. You state that the proximation of the track to one place nearest the backdrop will be a problem if the effect is not very good. I would think that accounts for about 3' of top quality backdrop, so the question is, "Do I keep the quality and $ up for the rest?" Then comes the notion that there would be too much contrast in quality between the three separate areas if the best part splits the backdrop. It will look cheezy...or will it?
What does this whole project mean to you? Do you often say, "Good enough," as you finish off a level of detailing? Or do you have a lot of emotion and pride invested in the project? If you have a great deal sunk into it, in terms of dollars, time, and emotion, you might be wiser to spring for the extra bucks and delay an expensive impendindg purchase. The other thing is to ask someone else how they would view an arrangement that was only fairly handpainted, or one in which the backdrop was 100% realistic, a photo, even. Then, ask them if the split arrangement would be okay.
My bet is on the money...you spending it.
JB - I've heard that point before and it is a good one. I once saw a layout that had a HUGE backdrop of the Rockies that went to the ceiling and IMHO it did detract from the layout which seemed dwarfed by the mountains (although I suppose that might have been the modelers point). But I think when photo backdrops are kept reasonable size I have yet to see one that detracted my attention. Even my good 'ole Chessie System 15 years ago had that backdrop by Vollmer or Faller of the Black Forest (I know, not very ptototypical) that we've all seen but it looked great.
Mike, I have thought of taking my own photos and am still looking into it because it's a great idea. It happens that I am also an amateur photographer with a Nikon D50 digital camera and four lenses (none of which are a wide angle lens of course which would be ideal). I even live in the area that I'm modeling so I could go and take actual photos of the hills around here and even that view to NYC from the Bronx (although that'll take a little doing). Does anyone know how much Kinkos would charge to print the equivalent of 8'x24" photo(s). That is the one variable I have not researched because I assumed it was very expensive also.
Of course, like most of you, time is an issue for me. I try to DIY whenever I can and really enjoy it. But from a practical viewpoint, running my own business, raising 3 teens, a dog, a lost cat, a house that always needs fixing, etc., I do try to cut corners on certain things when I can. I have to if I am going to finish this layout in my lifetime.
Does anyone here use photo backdrops?
Hey Stuuuuuuud,
gotta ask yourself this question: are you interested in watching your trains run, or the backdrop they're running past.
I shoot for the general flavor of the area I'm modeling. If someone looks at my backdrop and says,"oh yea, you're modeling Western Pennsylvania, I've succeeded in my efforts. They come down to my basment to see trains.
Check out my efforts on CTT forum The Britains are coming! The Britains are coming! Do you focus on the trains or the scenery? ...or do they compliment each other?
I could also ask the question, "Do I want my backdrop to look real so that my trains look more realistic?" My answer to that question is a resounding yes! I can't help it but I don't see how a quality backdrop would detract from my trains unless I put in a ridiculously big and purposely detracting backdrop. That's like saying really true to life looking trees all over my layout would detract from it. I don't see it. And lots of us do it.
Though the point is well taken, I am still not convinced that a really good looking backdrop is actually going to do anything but make the layout look better. Now I only have to figure out how to accomplish photo backdrops without taking out a second mortgage. LOL! The Kinko's idea is starting to take shape as their is a local Kinko's to me and I am going to price out their poster service to make backdrops. Will report my findings here ASAP.
Stay tuned.....
fifedog wrote: Gotta ask yourself this question: are you interested in watching your trains run, or the backdrop they're running past. I shoot for the general flavor of the area I'm modeling. If someone looks at my backdrop and says,"oh yea, you're modeling Western Pennsylvania, I've succeeded in my efforts. They come down to my basment to see trains.
Gotta ask yourself this question: are you interested in watching your trains run, or the backdrop they're running past.
Does the area you're modeling include drywall-flavoring or a sky?
colvinbackshop wrote: All good points... As for myself; I have always felt that a simple backdrop (blue sky, a few clouds and distant hills) kept the focus on the railroad and not the backdrop. I have seen some VERY nice, realtively detailed, backdrops and in all honesty, they haven't detracted form the "road". On the other hand I've seen some that are just "way too busy" to the point of being the focial point...Are we doing model railroading or mural painting here? In your case with a very specfic place (and a busy one at that) I'm not sure how to respond. Maybe you really need that busy detail of the backdrop to convey dense population your diorama...If so, spend the money to really get the scene across. Me...I'm doing mostly rural MN. The blue sky, a few clouds and some hills work just fine.
I couldn't agree more. The purpose of a backdrop is to focus attention on the foreground. It should do nothing more but to suggest that there is something more beyond the back edge of the benchwork without drawing the eye to it. A backdrop that is too well done will draw they eye as much as if there was no backdrop at all. I have a large layout and I've used all kinds of backdrops from the Instant Horizon brand to photorealistic types. I've even done a few of my own. My only purpose is to fill the big blue void. I've been careful to keep the same types of backdrops grouped together. The Instant Horizon backdrops which are artist renderings wouldn't look right next to a photo backdrop but by themselves they accomplish the purpose.
One thing I have discovered is that where shallow background structures are used against the backdrop, you need to have clusters of backdrop buildings behind them to allow them to blend into the backdrop. Otherwise, it is just too obvious that these structures are only an inch or two deep. By having backdrop buildings extending above the roof line and to the sides of the shallow background structures, it does wonders for creating the illusion of greater depth than is actually there.
Colvin - that's a good point about the shallow background structures. That's exactly how I am going to do my city scene - with backdrop buildings blending into the backdrop.
Where I have issues are the areas of my layout where the background will be hills. I recently watched a train video at this forum and this guy had clumps of lichen climbing up the wall like a three dimensional backdrop depicting hills. I was impressed with the way he did it and with no background except blue wall. I thought it looked darn good.
I must admit that I am surprised that more modelers don't like the photo backdrops. Perhaps I am looking at this the wrong way. Just the fact that there is a similar post at this forum now about just painting clouds and it has 2 pages of replies already is a testament to this. Interesting.
Generally, I prefer a rather simple backdrop. My backdrops are just light blue craft paper:
I also have one area where I'm experimenting with simple hill shapes:
I do like the look of the simple hills, and will probably carry them the rest of the way around the layout.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
Whether you can get away with just a sky for backdrop depends a lot on what area of the country you are modeling. For instance, if you are modeling the Great Plains, there isn't likely to be much if anything rising above your 3-D scenery. Same with the low lying areas of the deep south where the trees would block the view of anything beyond the foreground scenery. On the other hand, if you are modeling hill or mountain terain, something on the back drop is almost a must unless you have a hillside in the back half of your scene that would block the view of anything beyond. I have several long stretches on my layout where I plan to do just that. In between the peaks of those hills I'll have a few commercial backdrops installed to create the illusion of something beyound the layout.
As for clouds, they are nice but not a necessity. There will be days in just about any area where there will be cloudless blue skies but the frequency of such days will vary from one region to another. I use a very simply method to add clouds to my blue sky creates acceptable results. I use a can of flat white spray paint and just make little swirls on the blue sky and also add a little has near the horizon. It doesn't require a lot of time or talent but it gets the job done. If it were really important to me, I'd go to the trouble of shading the bottoms of my clouds but I am not looking to create a highly detailed sky. I don't want the viewers eye to be drawn upward to my sky. Just the suggestion of thin wispy clouds against the blue sky keeps the focus on the 3-D scene.
Surfstud31:
I'm inclined to agree with you. Simple painted backdrops and the Walthers cartoon-like pictures just look fake to me and detract from the quality of the layout. I've been to the backdrop site you have mentioned and seen their samples and prices. It may be worth considering them. However, they are not the only game in town in terms of photo-realistic backdrops. I've used both Scenic Express and Sceniking for my backdrops. In my opinion they look pretty good and are pretty cheap (e.g., Scenic Express runs about $10 for a 3-ft. section). Moreover, many of them are made to connect to each other so you can come up with seamless 10-15ft. stretches. I can't speak for their quality versus the ones you were considering but they are quite good. For example, I have seen them used in layouts that have appeared in the Great Model Railroads annuals. If you look carefully at the most recent MRR that featured George Selios' layout you'll also see that he used some of the Scenic Express city buildings for his backdrop. If they're good enough for someone like him, they're good enough for me.
Anyway if you want to check them out, the sites are:
Sceniking.com
Scenicexpress.com
Just so you know, the Scenic Express backdrops are printed on poster board while the Scenicexpress are printed on paper. On the whole, I like the Scenic Express ones better but the Sceniking has a wider variety of images.
One final point. In comparison to the backdrops offered at the site you were looking at, the Sceniking and Scenic Express ones are shorter and the sky is not necessarily going to match across each panel. You will therefore have to cut the buildings or other features out of the sky and then paste them to a blue-painted backdrop. This is pretty easy to do and comes out well.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296
Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
I find that most photo backdrops tend to be too sharp and can detract from the forground. Even crisp hand painted scenes of distant hills and trees need to be slighty hazed or fogged. Light passes w/ an airbrush or misting from a spray can with whites or light grays work well for this. If the backdrop is an industial area or town a light brown/ grime can be used. After hazing out the backdrop, any forground items can be sharpened up if desired.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org