I just sat up a branch line off the B line. First the good news, my track laying skills are much better and no derails. But now the problem and it is two fold. Running a doubled headed Athearn BB train. They have the old steel wheels. Also the 2 turn outs have been on the bench for sometime but just used as track, not a working turn out.
Problem's
1 Peaco turn out, now with the turn out going off the B-line there are sparks flying off the rail on the out side. If the turn out is not thrown there is no sparks.
2 Atlas #8 turn out. Turn out section is where the train comes back on the B-Line Think it is called the toe. When my engines pass over the turn out they loss power for a slit second. Sometimes the second engine shuts down and stops the trains. As with the Peaco, it has been in placed for some time, when used as straight there is no problem.
I will try cleaning the wheels, but I dont think that is the problem.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
First Pondini, thanks for the answer. Seems you where the only one that had sort of a clue. I think I understand what you told me. But I have a good idea now what to look for. I all so found that the Proto 2000 wheel freight will do the same thing on the turn out. Ran the B line with the lights off after I posted this and they all sparked.
I am DC and thottle is a MRC 9500, meters don't real react to the sparks but they happen fast. I will roll a Proto wheel freight car though the Peaco and see what happens.
If you have a PIC you could post that would be great as well. I hope I can save the Peaco Turn out, sort of a odd ball being a Y. LHS has # 8 but that is it.
Thanks again Cuda Ken
I'm casting my vote for the thin insulated gap at the frog. I've got some Pecos, and some of them show the same problem. The spot where the two rails come together at the frog is very tight, and with wide metal wheels sometimes the gap is bridged and there's a short. (Old Athearn BB's make this more likely - I think those wheels were wider than today's models.)
One solution is a bit of clear fingernail polish right at the gap. This will coat a very small part of the rail and make the insulated gap a bit larger. Only do this for a very small part of the rail, like maybe a 16th of an inch, just enoug to keep one wheel from bridging the gap. Also, make sure it's completely dry before you run a train over it.
Maybe I'll vote for the frog on Election Day, too. Better than any of the candidates I've seen.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
frog for president! thats rich!
David Parks I am the terror that flaps in the night!
Ken,While all of the above is excellent advice there is one overlooked problem..
The old Athearn cast iron wheels is well known to spark..This *could* be the problem and the best fix to end the case of the "sparkies" is to change out the wheels to NWSL.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Ken,
Yes, the older Blue Box Athearns with the Jet (black) motors have wheels with a wider flange, so substituting newer BB wheels, NWSL, or simply insulating the frogs as detailed above could solve the problem. Check that they're in gauge first, though.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
cudaken wrote: First Pondini, thanks for the answer. Seems you where the only one that had sort of a clue. I think I understand what you told me. But I have a good idea now what to look for. I all so found that the Proto 2000 wheel freight will do the same thing on the turn out. Ran the B line with the lights off after I posted this and they all sparked. I am DC and thottle is a MRC 9500, meters don't real react to the sparks but they happen fast. I will roll a Proto wheel freight car though the Peaco and see what happens. If you have a PIC you could post that would be great as well. I hope I can save the Peaco Turn out, sort of a odd ball being a Y. LHS has # 8 but that is it. Thanks again Cuda Ken
Ken-
Have a look at this thread. There are some pics of where the wheel can bridge the gap in the frog, and suggestions on remedies.
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/938758/ShowPost.aspx
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Andy Sperandeo MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
Sperandeo wrote:Nelson mentioned the first thing I'd check – are the shorting/sparking wheelsets in gauge? Athearn locomotives have wheels mounted on stub axles pushed into a plastic sleeve that carries the axle gear. It's not unusual for a few of these to be delivered out of gauge, or for those that started in gauge to work themselves in operation to be too narrow or too wide. Check them with an NMRA gauge, then remove any that aren't correct and push or pull the wheels while twisting them in the plastic sleeve until the gauge is correct. Then put a TINY drop of super glue where the metal axles meet the plastic sleeve, being careful to keep the glue away from the bronze axle bearings. So long, Andy
Another problem encountered w/ Athearn BB is when Kadee #5 are mounted you now have created an elecrical path from the frame(lower motor brush) out to the coupler. If the engines are run elephant style there's no problem, but have the direction reversed on one unit and you can experience some intermitant shorting as the frame polarity of the rear backwards facing unit will pick up from the opposite rail. I used to body mount a #5 in it's box and cut the lug off, but a simpler solution is to use a delrin shank #30 series coupler.
Many times if the frog rails aren't the culprit, voltage changes across the turnout can cause a slight jerk or momentary pause that can accent the coupler movement.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Problem with using muliple kinds: Peco vs. Atlas. Designs are different. and problem solutions are different.
Peco and older Atlas turnouts have Plastic frogs with imbedded metal point rails. When metal wheels touch both rails they short and spark.
PROBLEM: Turnout was designed before metal wheels became popular
SOLUTIONS: Plastic wheelsi (poor); insulatig frog frog with nail polish (temporary); shim-ing the guard rail to re-align (better); replacing turnout with a better one (best). This assumes wheel gage meets NMRA.
"Atlas #8" are a newly designed code 83 with an insulated (dead) frog. They don't have the afomentioned problem. (Dead frogs have no electricity to short). Are you sure this is the turnout you have?
I suspect what you have is not an Atlas #8, however 'stalling' can be cured by powering any frog with switch machine contacts, or using all-wheels-powered engines (Athearn's are), or replacing with Micro-Engineering or Shinohara made turnouts. I found not all #6 OR#4 prefab turnouts are created equal.
cudaken wrote: Enines that want to stall are Athearn 12 wheel drives. My Proto 2000 E-6's have no problems
Enines that want to stall are Athearn 12 wheel drives. My Proto 2000 E-6's have no problems
Are all of your 12 wheel Athearns the older black motored versions with the wider flanges? As said before, it would be a lot simpler to try new wheelsets in them -- either NWSL or the later BB wheels that have a much narrower flange. If you have any of those in spare parts it would be an easy test.