Movie train not right - among other things...

[andrechapelon]

Let's suppose you wanted to remake VRE. Where in the dickens are you going to get the equipment to put together not one, but two complete WWII era Italian trains (not to mention stretches of railroad still using WWII era signal systems) as well as any flyable aircraft that bear the remotest resemblance to an Me-109? Even assuming it's possible, the cost would be prohibitive.

Three letters:  CGI  Computer Generated Images. 

Of course this would require a carefully planed and extremely detailed shot composition in order to integrate the CG effects with reality.  It would be a pain to plan out, but these days it would actually be a lot cheaper than coming up with the props/equipment.  More productions these days are moving in this direction.  The cost CGI has come down dramatically, and there is so much more that can be done with it in a convincing way (in many ways the audience doesn’t even know it’s being used).        

You're right. Given the shortage of operable old machinery, and the falling cost of CGI, you could do that. The question is, is how far do you want to go with it and how much does it add to the story being told?

For instance, in the movie "A League Of Their Own", the train used was from the Illinois Railroad Museum, utilizing a Burlington E-5 and some Budd passenger cars. The train was more or less correct for the period in question, but IIRC, the main character (whose name escapes me) played by Geena Davis, came from Washington state. The train may be correct for the period, but not the location where she boarded the train. Would it really have added anything to the film to use a CGI steam powered Great Northern or Northern Pacific train of the same era and would CGI have cost less than the the rented train? Just how "authentic" do you need to be in a movie given that most people aren't that knowledgeable about aircraft, railroads and ships, not to mention geography (e.g. in the movie 'Truman", ex Frisco 1522 was used for all the train sequences. Truman covered a lot of railroads in his 1948 election campaign, so a Frisco Mountain is inappropriate for all scenes that would not have been in Frisco served territory).

 Andre

[rrebell]

Let's suppose you wanted to remake VRE. Where in the dickens are you going to get the equipment to put together not one, but two complete WWII era Italian trains (not to mention stretches of railroad still using WWII era signal systems) as well as any flyable aircraft that bear the remotest resemblance to an Me-109? Even assuming it's possible, the cost would be prohibitive.

Three letters:  CGI  Computer Generated Images. 

Of course this would require a carefully planed and extremely detailed shot composition in order to integrate the CG effects with reality.  It would be a pain to plan out, but these days it would actually be a lot cheaper than coming up with the props/equipment.  More productions these days are moving in this direction.  The cost CGI has come down dramatically, and there is so much more that can be done with it in a convincing way (in many ways the audience doesn’t even know it’s being used).        

You're right. Given the shortage of operable old machinery, and the falling cost of CGI, you could do that. The question is, is how far do you want to go with it and how much does it add to the story being told?

For instance, in the movie "A League Of Their Own", the train used was from the Illinois Railroad Museum, utilizing a Burlington E-5 and some Budd passenger cars. The train was more or less correct for the period in question, but IIRC, the main character (whose name escapes me) played by Geena Davis, came from Washington state. The train may be correct for the period, but not the location where she boarded the train. Would it really have added anything to the film to use a CGI steam powered Great Northern or Northern Pacific train of the same era and would CGI have cost less than the the rented train? Just how "authentic" do you need to be in a movie given that most people aren't that knowledgeable about aircraft, railroads and ships, not to mention geography (e.g. in the movie 'Truman", ex Frisco 1522 was used for all the train sequences. Truman covered a lot of railroads in his 1948 election campaign, so a Frisco Mountain is inappropriate for all scenes that would not have been in Frisco served territory).

 Andre

There are 10 flyable me-109's in the world out of the original production, that dose not include non-flyable or reproductions.

[Andrew Falconer]

Some Motion Pictures are thrown together so quickly the laws of physics and chemistry are not even consistent from the beginning to the end of the movie.

There are movies where in some scenes the flying bullets are harmless. In other scenes the bullets are as explosive as grenades.

Regarding trains and railroad equipment in Motion Pictures: During pre-production the production crews must always get accurate HO Scale models. It would make planning the equipment rental or Computer Generated Imaging or stock footage much easier. The accurate HO Scale models would allow the production team to get in the mood of the place and time for better continuity.

Andrew

[cspmo]

but the train that one of the guys gets on when he's leaving his small mid western US community is the same train he gets off of in France...

It must been one hell of a tunnel.  All the German  RED  tri-planes  ruin  the movie for me.

A lot of triplanes were red on the german side, it was done to put fear into the allies as the Von Rictovins plane was red and since you could only tell a pilot by their plane color, you get the picture

I don't believe there was an entire squadron of red Folker Triplanes.

[marknewton]

andrechapelon wrote:

<"Item: "The Train". This was a 1965 movie which used an old French 4-6-0 to pull a train filled with art treasures being looted from France by fleeing ***. There are several locomotives in the French National Railway Museum that would be suitable for a remake, but then you need a complete train that is compatible. How much money are you willing to spend to overhaul a static museum locomotive and recondition 15-20 old freight cars to be correct for the era? Then you have to find a suitable non-electrified French mainline. Hard to do in this day and age, not to mention eating up most of your budget.">

Why go to Mulhouse and rebuild a static loco? There are numerous preservation groups/tourist railways in France with trafficable locos suitable for a WW2-era film. Our local foreign-language TV station just finished screening a multi-part docudrama set in France during the German occupation, which featured correct locos, cars and trams!

Cheers,

Mark.

[Angel_of_Mercy]

I got one for you in the movie "Ray" 1930 Autos passing under TTX well cars on a bridge now what do you think of that one.

[rghammill]

The issue rarely has anything to do with whether they know it's accurate or not. And I'm sure they don't decide to do something different just because they like their version better.

In almost all of these cases it's a question of the importance of the train, plane, or other item, location, prop, etc. and the cost and ease of duplicating what's accurate.

For most people, in a given movie all they need to know is that the character travelled by train. They'll use steam or diesel based on the era. The specific type of locomotive is determined largely by what working locomotives are available in the area for the shoot. They're not going to spend an enormous amount of money on a train that may appear for 10 seconds when it's simply helping to set the scene and era.

I would guess that most directors don't even consider that there would be all sorts of different kinds of steam locomotives, and the variations from different roads are endless. Even on long-running period shows (like 'Little House on the Prairie' for example) just use a 'modern' steam locomotive, because that's what was available. They might know enough to make a choice between wood or coal (and probably don't even know there were oil-burning steam locomotives) but that's it.

If the train is pivotal to the story, then they'll spend the time and money to get it right.

Randy