N-scale Graffiti Rolling Stock at Wal-Mart

[Anonymous]

Well, for those that care for a bit of enlightenment on the subject of trains and the graffiti that covers them, otherwise you can skip past this explanation and dwell within the comforts of your own ignorance and prejudices. But, lets just say i know a guy who knows a guy who is an expert in the subject.

First of all, the graffiti that you are seeing on trains have absolutely nothing to do with gangs. Perhaps 2% of the graffiti you see is from gang members, and THAT gang graffiti is indeed trash. A way you can tell the difference is gang graffiti is usually only one color, is not "filled-in" and usually can be described as "old english stick letters".

The graffiti on the Enamolized models, and most the graffiti you see, is done by "graffiti writers". Fellows that engage in the underground culture of graffiti which started on new york city passenger trains in the late 70's and early 80's.

As silly and blatantly egotistical of a motive it may seem, the goal of graffiti was (and is) to become famous by forcing your alias in front of the face of the public over and over again, until, like paris hilton, rather you like it or not, you know their name. As the streets of NYC became saturated, and well... pissing people off... the general public was repulsed and the only people that seemed to like it where other writers and influential kids "thought it was cool", thus a small group of mostly nerdy guys (much like you rail fans *wink) began to "geek-out" on things like letter structure, color schemes, how well rounded a writer was, how much he was up, etc... and rather you agree with it, accept it, hate it... a culture was started. The nature of the culture is of course illegal... some writers have personal rules about what they will and wont paint, but for the most part, it is indeed anti-social and rebellious by nature. So I understand why "the world" doesn't like it... and if they did... well... it wouldn't be near as cool ;)

Oh yes, back to train graffiti 101

In the 80's, the fascination with subway trains was that your "name" could become mobil and travel from one side of the city to the other, thus reaching a wider audience. The goal was to go "all city", to have your name... well everywhere. Then, Ed Koch basically made the passenger trains in NYC unpaintable, had guard dogs, wouldn't run trains with graffiti on them, etc. To this day, no graff runs on NYC subway trains. The next natural step was to start hitting freights. Around the early nineties, underground cultures of underground hiphop, punk rock, rave (yuck), skateboarding, and all the other sub-cultures that parents love to see their kids involved in, graffiti made a come back and to try to go "all nation" was the next step. And believe me, there are plenty of writers who have done it. Painting thousands of trains and becoming extremely famous... such as the artist "Enamulized" has featured. Jase alone has as many as in the tens if not hundreds of thousands... his graff alone has more than likely passed in front of all of our eyes in person, which to me, is simply an amazing concept. Again, i know most of you could care less... and dont like it... but I just felt obligated to clear up a few of the harsh criticisms I was hearing.

I know personally that serious train writers are more than safe, they have a heightened sense of respect for the train industry, if for no other reason, to keep the heat off themselves. They don't paint over numbers (often masking them out with tape... again for the self serving reason of avoiding "the stamp"), they stay out of active yards (train cops), they dont litter (dont want to give away their spots), they dont paint on walls or anywhere near the yard they paint in, they wear respirators (toxins), they have as much knowledge about trains as most rail fans (you want your art to travel!). They are perfectly safe and for the most part stay out of site and away from moving trains. Most serious train writers are older men with careers, families, and have perfectly decent lives just like any of you. Of course, being on the other side of the coin, I think the little models are neat... I broke my own principal of not shopping at walmart, and bought 3 today, and i intend on collecting them all... I just hope they feature more writers and keep em' coming.

[jamesbaker]

I have to chime in on this one. First off let me say that I am an artist. I do all types of art work, from pencil, charcoal, airbrush, to painting drivable vehicles. Although I have never done any illegal graffiti. I have been hired to do some graffiti work for some people simply because they like that sytle of art work.  I do not tag rail cars or any thing that I do not have permission to do so. Graffiti is just another type of art work to an open minded artist. When they tag a rail car I am sure they think of it as a traveling art mussem. I have seen very few rail cars with graffiti over any names, numbers or warning lables. They have been done on the base color of the car!

On the other hand, I bought 2 last week and I also intend on collecting them all!   I will also be painting (using a detail brush & or my airbrush) and painting some graffiti on a few of my rail cars also.

Thanks for the space to speak
Baker

[Andrew Falconer]

On the Canadian National-GTW Freight Trains that roll through Michigan, much of the Tagging and Graffiti Art is painted on top of the important reporting marks, road numbers, weight ratings, and dimensional data. There is almost no masking or placement consideration.

To remedy this, the paint shops have done patch painting to restore the important data.

Andrew

[jamesbaker]

I seen a rail car today that the artest had painted over the road # and so on. But the cool thing was when they repainted it today they masket off the Graffiti to repaint the important data!

I stoped to ask his opinion on rail Graffiti while he was painting on data. Here is what he said.
" I am XX years old and have worked here for XX years. I enjoy seeing Graffiti on rail cars.  It goes to show you don't have to let your art sit in the bottom of your closet and never be seen. I just wish they did not paint over what we need to do our job. Most of the time the do not though!"

Just thought I would post this real fast.
Baker

[Anonymous]

Not to get a reputation of a bad guy around here, but really, WHERE
do half of you people come up with your facts about graffiti writers?
GANGS? NOT (well, like Phill said, at least 2% of freight graffiti is gang related)
 and whats up with that comment about graffiti not being art?!?!?! ARE YOU
SERIOUS?  Earth to Azure: Graffiti is the application of a medium to a surface,
and what my dear Azure, do graffiti writers USE to create their work on train cars?
PAINT.  not only that, but art is anything that a human can produce using structure and form,
using geometrical shapes, line, color, dimension, composition,on a canvas.

what is SO wrong with painting on trains? Yes, I know that SOMe writers who do not know what
they are doing paint over important info that workers utilize, but I know that the ones that DO know what they are doing are concsious of things like these.  Also, did you ever think that maybe graf writers are doing the railroad a favor by painting train cars, which in a sense help keep the cars free from rust for a few extra years? Phil nailed many points that I wanted to talk about, so I guess all I can say is please try not to be so judgemental of writers. They know what they are doing, (most of them anyways) and take the necessary precations in following safety rules of the railroad.  

someone also mentioned what will graf writers do when they run out of boxcars to paint, they will start painting on tankers.  hmmm... NO. why? they are considered to be in the same catagoory as
coal cars- they get beaten up on pretty bad, but tankers contain hazardous material and just the overall shape of them make them hard to paint, and when someone does paint on a tanker, their piece usually comes out looking retarded.  People have been writing on things since the beginning of time guys and gals, dating back to greek and roman civilizations.  I don't know how true this is, but I even heard that people who were opposed to a certain ruler back then would write things on the walls like, "Caeser sucks!"

Take the time to learn a bit more about graffiti.  It is not going anywhere anytime soon, and it doesn't hurt anyone. if anything, graffiti helps brighten up the road for the workers and engineers, and it also gives the average person something to look at while waiting for a train to go by in their town.

[Metro Red Line]

I grew up in the city and though I'm no kid, I'm a little younger than the average model RR. I know about this stuff.

There's three catagories of "writing or marking on a publicly-visible surface with areosol paint" (for a neutral definition):

Gang Graffiti: This is monochromatic (one color), usually black or in the gang's color. They use it to mark their turf. It includes the name of the gang and the gang names of some of its members. If a particular gang graffiti is X-ed out, it means a rival gang wants to kill or attack them. Another interesting fact (if you live in an area that's prone to gang graffiti): Gangs have a hierarchy. It is almost always sprayed by
the newer or lesser members of a gang and assigned to them by the gang's leader.
The members go out, spray their mark and leave. Later on, the leader comes by to inspect it. If it's not done, or painted out, someone's gonna get in BIG trouble...

Tagging: These are done by either "tagging crews" or individuals whose sole reason for doing it is to get their name out there. A crew would resemble a gang on the surface, but they rarely engange in violent activity. They just want to spray their name(s) all over the place. Individuals do it because they can.

Graffiti Art/Aersosol Art: These are done by artists who use different colors of paint to do what they call a "piece." This is what you usually see on rolling stock, since it's rather impractical for a travelling vehicle to mark gang turf when it travels far away from that turf. Ususally there's a social/political message conveyed in the piece, or it would revolve around oversized letters stating a certain word or phrase. In some cities (Some parts of NYC and LA's Venice Beach), there are designated walls for aerosol artists to do their pieces. They make their piece, take pictures of it, then later it gets painted over by another piece.

I abhor gang graffiti and tagging, but I tolerate aerosol art. Sometimes the more gifted aerosol artists are commissioned by businesses, organizations or municipalities to create legitimate murals, and get paid for it.

[Anonymous]

OH boy.  I won't even retort. Keep beliveing this way. hahaha. Go find some books
on graffiti, you will clear up all your misconceptions a bit more. BUT- you won't learn
everything there is to know about graf. Writers have TONS of secrets and they are bound
to an oath of secrecy when they join a crew.  The crew becomes their family, not in the gang
sense that you see on TV like on COPS, or in the movies, but more like a tight knit group of
friends.  Many writers are starting to form their own religion too, which is based a bit on a
certain type of magic. This magic is more of a guiding force for the writer whenever he or she
(yes, there are females that write too) gos out to paint.  the writers pray to a higher power, that
sometimes thake the form of an animal, kind of like a jackalope (little rabbit with small deer antlers).
This might seem REALLY crazy and way out form left field, but it's true.  Regular crews won't hurt anyone, and they are not violent.  Sometimes there is confrontation- like when another writer goes over another, the two crews call each other up set up a date to try and talk out the situation, and if
ALL ELSE FAILS, then it resorts to a fight.  in the fight, there are many rules and codes that each writer MUST follow.  If not, he/she could face possibly being removed from that crew.  All I really
know about the fighting tradition is that the writers have to square off and do a 2 minute ceramonial dance, then lock right hands and fight until one gives up or until the crew delegates decide the fight is over.  Man, if you think American writers are bad, YOU GOTTA see the European writers. those guys are CRAZY1  but what it all comes down to is that a writer just wants to paint his name on a train car. I saw a comment above early on in the thread where some one was sugesting that graffiti-ers should paint more engines.  Thats just great- actually that is one of the STUPIDEST things a writer can do.  That would be the equivalent of painting on a church, or someones wife, or a police station.  You would get REALLY pissed if someone paint your wife, right? Writers do not want the extra problems. So there. 

[Midnight Railroader]

Re: All the detailed explanations of the how and why of this graffiti...

You forgot to say, "And it is all 100% illegal."

[csmith9474]

Re: All the detailed explanations of the how and why of this graffiti...

You forgot to say, "And it is all 100% illegal."

Good call.

I guess some of these folks wouldn't mind someone coming and trespassing on their property in the middle of the night and painting up thier houses and cars without permission. But it is an "artform", so it is OK, right?

[csmith9474]

It absolutely amazes me that folks would come on here and seemingly endorse trespassing and vandalizing private property. Cut and dry, it is no more than that.

[Anonymous]

No I didn't forget that it was 100% illegal. But in 50 or so years, all of you are gonna wish that you had taken photos of this stuff, because:

1. All the ones who started doing this stuff willl be too old to paint anymore and their trains will be worth $$$.

2. This artwork in the future will be taught in schools (it actually already is being taught in some colleges)

3.  Like the railroad really cares.  I know what you are going to say to this- "But they do care, they
     frown apon it, and anyone caught will go to jail."
    Well If they cared all that much, all the yards and anywhere that train cars are parked would
    be on heavy duty lockdown.

And seriously folks, what is a more hanus crime? graffiti, Drugs? Rape? MURDER?

There has been cases where people have been caught for writing graffiti put in jail
for up to three years. There have been cases where a rapist gets caught, and gets SIX MONTHES
in jail. the same for drug dealers.

You tell me what is the more hanus crime. Graffiti is harmless (even though yes, it is illegal).  If anything, it should open more peoples eyes to a creative side of life than being all stuck up and rebublican...THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN BEING STUCK UP!!!! graffiti doesn't kill anyone, rape anyone, it doesn't steal from anyone, the biggest thing is that is is tresspassing and writing on someone else's (gigantic big business, that doen't even really care) property.  I am always amused at how bent out of shape people get over graffiti. IT DOES NOT HURT YO!

Oh and like I said before- GRAFFITI WRITERS DO NOT PAINT ON PEOPLES HOUSES OR CARS! Anyone who does that is stupid and does not want to be in graffiti for that long because that attracts the wrong kind of attention.  I bet you people think that graffiti writers are mean bad people, that are thieves, killers, swear a lot, smoke cigarettes, and hit women.  WRONG!!!  Some of the ones that I have met in train yards are really nice people, that just want to paint.  Many claim that graffiti has saved their lives.  Some of the ones I have talked to said that they came from broken homes, where the parents were on drigs, and some other ones come from VERY wealthy backgrounds.  Writers are everywhere- they could quite possibly be your next door neighbor.

[csmith9474]

Ah, I see. It is OK to break the law in the name of "art". I need to work on ways to justify breaking laws I suppose. I am not a stuck up Republican, so I guess engaging in illegal activities should be overlooked and encouraged in my mind. And all this time I have done my best to abide by laws set forth by various levels of government. Boy am I a fool.

Edit: The railroads don't have the means or personnell to police every last piece of rolling stock on the railroad. They depend on folks abiding by the law, and having respect for private property to help avoid having their equipment vandalized.

And yes, criminals of all types come from various backgrounds. Some come from wealthy backgrounds, while others come from poverty, and everything in between.

[Midnight Railroader]

graffiti doesn't kill anyone, rape anyone, it doesn't steal from anyone, the biggest thing is that is is tresspassing and writing on someone else's (gigantic big business, that doen't even really care) property.  I am always amused at how bent out of shape people get over graffiti. IT DOES NOT HURT YO!

If the railroads don't care, then why do the people who do this do it at night and when no one is looking? If they don't care, then it would be fine to do it right out in the open, right?

It is a crime. Period.

 

 

[Anonymous]

No no no.  I am not getting my point across the way I wanted it to. YES graffiti is illegal,
I am not condoning that anyone go out and do it and break the law, and I am not saying to throw away all our laws because of this.  I was trying to say that people do it regardless if its legal or illegal, and I was not fingering YOU personnally as a stuck up republican. That makes no sense.  I was trying to say that the way the laws that we have to abide by are screwy in the sense that a rapist can get out of jail earlier tahn someone who has been caught doing graffitis, and people LIKE republicans are to blame for that. 

IN MY OWN OPINION, I like graffiti, I think regardless of the law it should be done, and it also has its place in society. 


you wrote:

Ah, I see. It is OK to break the law in the name of "art". I need to work on ways to justify breaking laws I suppose.

You see someone breaking the law.  I see someone that is passionate in expressing themselves.
Right about now, the question that usually comes up is this:  Well, WHY do they have to break the law to passionatly express themselves?  its still wrong!

Well, In my opinion, graffiti is MEANT to be illegal, that is part of the thrill, the rush I guess.
If it's legal, a writer can go and take all the time he or she wants to paint, and a lot of people do this.  BUT- for the writer that seeks the thrill, the writer who wants to live on the edge, a wall where you can spend a few weeks at is boring.  This writer wants to remain mysterious; he / she wants the noteriety from his / her peers and wants to keep society wondering "who in the world did that?"

Whatever, who cares, let the kids paint!!!!  Your still gonna collect what they paint anyway,
maybe as a "suggestion"  (cause I don't want to tell you what to do) maybe it would be wise to learn more about this part of railroad culture.  Graffiti has been around longer than anyone alive today and it isn't going away anytime soon.


OH YEAH-
What do you guys think of hobo monikers? They have been "vandalizing" RR property since the
Civil war.

[Anonymous]

graffiti doesn't kill anyone, rape anyone, it doesn't steal from anyone, the biggest thing is that is is tresspassing and writing on someone else's (gigantic big business, that doen't even really care) property.  I am always amused at how bent out of shape people get over graffiti. IT DOES NOT HURT YO!

If the railroads don't care, then why do the people who do this do it at night and when no one is looking? If they don't care, then it would be fine to do it right out in the open, right?

It is a crime. Period.

 

 

Again, you just made another assumption.  There are MANY writers that prefer to paint
during the day.  and to tell you the truth, many of the RR workers and brakemen don't
give a **** because they are union.  Some of them really like graf, and some even do it themselves (hobo monikers mostly).  The bulls care though, the are NOT union (or so this is what I was told).  Workers, from what I have gathered, will sometimes SOMETIMES even hang out with some writers.

[csmith9474]

graffiti doesn't kill anyone, rape anyone, it doesn't steal from anyone, the biggest thing is that is is tresspassing and writing on someone else's (gigantic big business, that doen't even really care) property.  I am always amused at how bent out of shape people get over graffiti. IT DOES NOT HURT YO!

If the railroads don't care, then why do the people who do this do it at night and when no one is looking? If they don't care, then it would be fine to do it right out in the open, right?

It is a crime. Period.

 

 

Again, you just made another assumption.  There are MANY writers that prefer to paint
during the day.  and to tell you the truth, many of the RR workers and brakemen don't
give a **** because they are union.  Some of them really like graf, and some even do it themselves (hobo monikers mostly).  The bulls care though, the are NOT union (or so this is what I was told).  Workers, from what I have gathered, will sometimes SOMETIMES even hang out with some writers.

Again, it is illegal. Why is this so difficult to grasp? So you think it is alright, and even a good thing, to break the law. What do your parents think about this?

[Anonymous]

So I get edited, huh? Where is my retort? Just so you all know, I wrote back and now it is not here.
I get it, ok.  I do not associate with people that like to silence my RIGHT to free speech.  I wrote a response to CS Smith9474, and it did not get posted, OR it was posted, and then taken down completely.  That is exactly whats wrong with America- Noone wants to hear anything that is the least bit different than steak and potatoes for dinner.  I can see that I am not welcome here, so I will go away. Have a great life you all.

[csmith9474]

So I get edited, huh? Where is my retort? Just so you all know, I wrote back and now it is not here.
I get it, ok.  I do not associate with people that like to silence my RIGHT to free speech.  I wrote a response to CS Smith9474, and it did not get posted, OR it was posted, and then taken down completely.  That is exactly whats wrong with America- Noone wants to hear anything that is the least bit different than steak and potatoes for dinner.  I can see that I am not welcome here, so I will go away. Have a great life you all.

My point was not to run you off, but I am just seeking a reasonable justification for engaging in illegal activities such as vandalizing private property. I also did not see your response, and had nothing to do with its deletion (reporting). Most folks around here want to talk about model railroading, and not trying to justify breaking the law. As a model railroader to a model railroader (?), welcome to the forums.

[Andrew Falconer]

This is an "art form" meant to irritate in the most part by being visually out of control. The people who paint these freight cars are doing because they think they are fighting back because the big business is taking control of their lives. Very little of the painting is done to create an image of beauty and grace. The grafitti painters seem to have the concept, "It is hard world, so I will be ever harder in return." Please, make the rusty old boxcars look better if you are planning to hang out by the tracks. Bring some cleaner and primer before painting that top coat.

Andrew

[Anonymous]

This is an "art form" meant to irritate in the most part by being visually out of control. The people who paint these freight cars are doing because they think they are fighting back because the big business is taking control of their lives. Very little of the painting is done to create an image of beauty and grace. The grafitti painters seem to have the concept, "It is hard world, so I will be ever harder in return." Please, make the rusty old boxcars look better if you are planning to hang out by the tracks. Bring some cleaner and primer before painting that top coat.

Andrew

Andrew,  a small majority of graf writers feel that way.  I can tell you, from growing up with many
writers, that they are NOT trying to fight the system (even though to the Gen. public, it may seem that way).  The goal of the majority of writers is to get their name out there, as much as possible,
as big or creative as possible for as many people to see. Also, it is a very egotistical lifestyle, many writers are VERY much so into themselves (this does not mean they are bad people).  There are some witers who believe in a lot of conspiracy theories, and the graffiti you see from those types is usually political, or carries a message.  However, a traditional graffiti writer wants nothing more than to put his / her name up while following a certain standard way while painting.  Many writers use certain elements in every piece they put up: bubbly clouds in the background, a forcefield thin line around all the letter (this helps make them "pop" off of the train car, using contrasting colors),
stars, etc.  Also, there is a standard of how your letterforms should look if you want to be considered a "top notch writer".  As a writer who is starting out, you are recommended to do SIMPLE SIMPL SIMPLE letters first, instead of trying to pull off really wild styles.  You must learn letter form first, and learn the laws of typography before you can break those laws and doing really way out stuff.  there is a lot that goes into writing, and a lot of drawing constant drawing, and practicing your tag name over and over again.  did you know that graffiti is on of the only crafts left in art that utilizes apprentiships, where an older writer will take a younger writer under his / her wing, and teach and coach the on their style and letter forms.  Most of the time, the older more experienced writer will give the novice sketches, or outlines to get them started, and show them the "right" way to paint. 

I dod not mean to offend anyone on this board, and I didn't want to turn this into a debate wether graffiti is legal or illegal.  I merely waned to help educate railfans about a side of train culture that
is right there in your face, but is very secret.

[ukguy]

Well I have read and re-read this thread and found it fascinating, more so for the education in 'writers' and their culture. So thank you to BuddyBuddyBoxcar and the other contributers for their insights into this area of railroading.

Personally I enjoy seeing the 'pieces' , and I do admire and acknowledge the skills and talent it would take do do these pieces of art (esp. as they are done in the dark with limited time, mainly).

I would rather see an amazing artwork roll by while I was waiting at a crossing than a plain string of 30 identical drab dirty boxcars, but thats just me, yes I know its illegal, just like copying a friends CD, photocopying a published artical and driving above the speed limit and a host of other things... (and dont forget it has already been posted that there are no degrees of 'illegal' , its still breaking the law)........something about no sin and the first stone springs to mind...

Once again thanks to all for an enlightening, educational and interesting topic.

As for the original post, I saw the boxcars and will probably get some. As for the fact that they are 1980's 'tags' on 1960's cars is irrelevant to me as I am/was ignorant of such knowledge, I can just enjoy the railcars for what they are, sometimes ignorance is bliss

Have fun, be safe, and keep it legal
Karl

[Midnight Railroader]

yes I know its illegal, just like copying a friends CD, photocopying a published artical and driving above the speed limit and a host of other things... (and dont forget it has already been posted that there are no degrees of 'illegal' , its still breaking the law)........something about no sin and the first stone springs to mind...

Okay, we'll all be over to add this sort of "art" to your car and house, then, since you seem to believe it's no big deal.

That'd be okay, right?

[Midnight Railroader]

. YES graffiti is illegal,
I am not condoning that anyone go out and do it and break the law ....

 I like graffiti, I think regardless of the law it should be done.... 

Read what you wrote again.

[Anonymous]

. YES graffiti is illegal,
I am not condoning that anyone go out and do it and break the law ....

 I like graffiti, I think regardless of the law it should be done.... 

Read what you wrote again.

OMG Enough! I just wanted to help educate about graffiti and not get not a debate about the legalities of it! For the 50th time GRAFFITI IS ILLEGAL!!!! I won't go out and tell someone to go do it, but at the same time, I like it, and I hope that it never ends!!!!  Graffiti has pretty colors, is mysterious, and takes a lot of balls to do! So I contradicted myself! Are you happy that YOU got a chance to take a cheeap shot at me too? hope that made your night!!!! petty petty petty. As a matter of fact, I LOVE graffiti!

Graffiti is SUPPOSED to be illegal. Period. It is a rebellious artform. Legal graffiti is ironic. No matter how much I try to explain this, some people just won't get it.  But why am I being singled out and treated like a criminal on here? Like everyone is trying to take a shot at proving me wrong? If I were YOU guys, I would take this opportunity to LEARN from what I have to say.
you guys have all the knowledge of railroading, I have knowledge of another part of RRing that
you guys wouldn't even know WHERE to start looking.  And to those of you guys who do paint graffiti on your sets, you can't just take a photo of someones piece (a piece is what a writer paints on a train, it's short for "masterpiece", derived from old NYC graf from the 70's, 80's), change the colors up, and put it on a tottally different type of car.  The colors in a piece are constructed based on the color of the boxcar.  ALSO, here's a VERY VERY important part of graffiti, and it's something you guys should heed if you are going to paint and show off your models-

Let's say that you want to paint a model boxcar that you have at home for your RR set. First off,
you'd probably want to go do some research, ie. shoot some photos of some graffitti'd up train cars, correct? OK word of advice, some graffiti writers do not get along with others, and I am talking on a NATIONWIDE level.  I have seen some recreations where a railfan modeler will decorate a car with two writers names that absolutely hate each other, OR they will paint a model with peices that actual graffiti writers have painted that don't even KNOW each other.

Word of advice:

To graffiti writers, one side of a boxcar is broken up into roughly three parts: the left panel, the door, and the right panel.  When a writer paints a train car, that is considered HIS car.  Even if he / she only paints one panel, say for examples sake the left panel leaving the door and the right panel untouched, it is STILL his car.  He put in the work to paint that car, so he is entitled to the whole thing, and other writers are expected to find something else to paint, and this is well understood by writers who know what they are doing.  If there is a boxcar with say 2,3,4 or 5 different writers names on it, they know each other, or in most cases are in the same crew (not a gang). So when you paint a model car from looking at two different photos, you just might be putting two writers together that might not even know each other or in some cases don't even like each other. It makes no sense to do this.  So I would only paint exactly what you see that is on a particular boxcar taht you may have photographed.  You want your models to look as real as possible, right?  Well just figured I would help you out with that.  Oh and another thing, the exact colors that a writer paints on a car are pretty important too.  If someone goes out and paints a boxcar with his name in blue, outlined in black, with red and orange accents like bubble clouds, stars etc, those are the colors that he / she felt would work best on that car.  I suggest that if you paint someones artwork, do your best to keep true to the colors that you see. It's not really that big of a deal, but it would just make your model set more true to life.

[ukguy]

yes I know its illegal, just like copying a friends CD, photocopying a published artical and driving above the speed limit and a host of other things... (and dont forget it has already been posted that there are no degrees of 'illegal' , its still breaking the law)........something about no sin and the first stone springs to mind...

Okay, we'll all be over to add this sort of "art" to your car and house, then, since you seem to believe it's no big deal.

That'd be okay, right?

You seem to have missed my point completely ... why am I not surprised..

Nowhere in my thread did I say it was no big deal, or before this expands with another reply, did I say I condoned it or advocate breaking the law.

The part of my post (which, incidently, I thought was a curteous and pleasant one) that you quoted was actually putting the point across that :-

yes its illegal, as the high and mighty, holier than thou and more righteous keep pointing out, but.... so are the other things I listed, so unless you have never broken the law in any way, never driven over the speed limit, never listened to a burned CD or watched a copy of a movie get off the high horse and stop casting stones.

If you dont like the graffiti cars dont buy them, period.

As buddy stated he was simply giving the background and some info on the subject, which some people find interesting, myself included, and the others who model graffiti. If the subject doesnt interest you then dont read it, just like I dont read the DCC ones or the complaining, whining, argumentative ones, which this has turned into.

[Anonymous]

midnight railroader, I apologize, I did misinterpret your post. I see what you were getting across, and I agree with you.  But I guess we have to accept that this IS the internet, a place where
people who can't argue face to face, they do it on here, behind the secrecy of their computer. And it Is unfortunate that alot of people can't find the beauty in graffiti, all that goes into it.

[Anonymous]

Hello all

I’ve read through all 3 pages of this and I would just like to say a couple of things:

 

 1)      I am absolutely amazed at how complex this all is. I had no idea there was that much to graffiti. I always thought it was either just a bunch of misfit kids with no other outlet, or was gang related. Thanks Buddy for quite a bit of history.

2)      What the hell are you all so angry about? Look, I think UKGUY summed it up with: “yes I know its illegal, just like copying a friends CD, photocopying a published artical and driving above the speed limit and a host of other things... (and dont forget it has already been posted that there are no degrees of 'illegal' , its still breaking the law)........something about no sin and the first stone springs to mind...”

3)      I don’t want anyone planting pansies on my front lawn, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like to see them on the side of the road. If the RR’s were really concerned about this kind of “vandalism” they would be doing something about it. You can’t tell me that there aren’t “hot” areas or locations, or certain yards where this happens more often than elsewhere. There could be an elaborate sting operation set up with RR workers armed with spray cans... I'm getting carried away. The bottom line is if the RR’s aren’t up in arms about it why should you guys be?

4)      No, I’m not buying my kids spray paint. (And I live on Long Island, where you can’t buy spray paint if you’re under 18.) But then I’m not buying them guns or knives either. Look, it’s in the upbringing and parental involvement. I doubt that any of us would like to be bailing our kids or friends out of jail for spray painting RR cars, but (in NY at least) I can think of a lot worse mischief for people to be getting into, and much more serious crimes. You guys really need to agree to disagree and let it go.

 

Just my nickels worth, Charlie

[Metro Red Line]

...And if you DO want some graffiti on your cars (and some awesome weathering as well) check out THIS site:

http://www.griffsgrimeshop.com/

[PA&ERR]

I have waded through 3 pages of this garbage about graffiti "artists". I was little surprised that the the moral relativists would crawl out of their pseudo-intellectual enclaves to look down their noses at us poor simpletons who actually understand the concepts of law and private property.

The really odd thing is that I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that the same people who joined this forum just to lecture us dimwitted model railroaders about the glorious alternative culture of the "graffiti writers" are the same people whose undying devotion to Political Correctness has banished the swastika from the box art and promotional art of German World War II aircraft model kits.

(Notice something missing from the tail?)

Graffiti, is a blight upon civilization and its perpetrators are criminals.

-George 

[Bergie]

Three topics ALWAYS lead to argument here, and they are, in no particular order: graffiti, politics, religion.

I'm locking this because it's at the point of no return.

Bergie