BRAKIE wrote: TomDiehl wrote: BRAKIE wrote:That is true but,by straighten the frame and weight that saves a lot of work getting the BB cars to the correct height by eliminating the droop and #5s can be used.Savvy? The coupler height gauge still needs to be the final step in determining the correct height. Athearn, as well as any other brand kit or RTR needs to be checked. As I said above, the Walthers RTR Superliner cars I got last year don't have one type of coupler in all of them. Some even have a different number in each end. You're assuming a consistency that just isn't there, kit or RTR. We agree there..All I am saying there are steps that can be taken to correct the BB coupler droops.Now,I can ALMOST eyeball the coupler and know if it will be low or to high..Of course I use the KD coupler gauge to insure the correct coupler height. Tom,I will tell you this..I have use #5s in all of my cars since 1966.Now if that isn't a consistency then what is? Are you implying that the thousands of us that uses the #5 in cars for years are wrong because there is NO consistency??
TomDiehl wrote: BRAKIE wrote:That is true but,by straighten the frame and weight that saves a lot of work getting the BB cars to the correct height by eliminating the droop and #5s can be used.Savvy? The coupler height gauge still needs to be the final step in determining the correct height. Athearn, as well as any other brand kit or RTR needs to be checked. As I said above, the Walthers RTR Superliner cars I got last year don't have one type of coupler in all of them. Some even have a different number in each end. You're assuming a consistency that just isn't there, kit or RTR.
BRAKIE wrote:That is true but,by straighten the frame and weight that saves a lot of work getting the BB cars to the correct height by eliminating the droop and #5s can be used.Savvy?
The coupler height gauge still needs to be the final step in determining the correct height. Athearn, as well as any other brand kit or RTR needs to be checked. As I said above, the Walthers RTR Superliner cars I got last year don't have one type of coupler in all of them. Some even have a different number in each end. You're assuming a consistency that just isn't there, kit or RTR.
We agree there..All I am saying there are steps that can be taken to correct the BB coupler droops.Now,I can ALMOST eyeball the coupler and know if it will be low or to high..Of course I use the KD coupler gauge to insure the correct coupler height.
Tom,I will tell you this..I have use #5s in all of my cars since 1966.Now if that isn't a consistency then what is? Are you implying that the thousands of us that uses the #5 in cars for years are wrong because there is NO consistency??
Why do you think Kadee released those fiber washers that are .010 and .015 inch thick that just happen to fit on the bolster shoulder of an Athearn car? These came out before the offset head couplers, all were designed to adjust for this lack of consistency. Ask how many of those thousands of people never used the washers before the offset heads were available.
Tom,Those washers also fit other brands of cars and I know you should already know that.
The only time I hear of ANYBODY body using the off set couplers is on forums.Why? To many self appointed forum "experts" won't listen and think their way is the only way.I just don't understand that...
Sorry Tom,Those unknown thousands that have been building Athearn cars for years and using #5s can't be wrong.Even KD recommends #5s and the look alike 20 for Athearn cars..Is KD wrong to?
http://www.kadee.com/conv/pdf/ath31.pdf
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE wrote: Tom,Those washers also fit other brands of cars and I know you should already know that. The only time I hear of ANYBODY body using the off set couplers is on forums.Why? To many self appointed forum "experts" won't listen and think their way is the only way.I just don't understand that... Sorry Tom,Those unknown thousands that have been building Athearn cars for years and using #5s can't be wrong.Even KD recommends #5s and the look alike 20 for Athearn cars..Is KD wrong to? http://www.kadee.com/conv/pdf/ath31.pdf
I know they fit other brands, as I said before none of the manufacturer's rolling stock will take the same number coupler every time, on both ends, without some sort of shimming or adjustment on the coupler box or truck mount to match the gauge.
I never said they were wrong. I was one of them. But very few of the #5's went on without some sort of shimming to adjust it. The offset head couplers help get the adjustment right with less shimming. I've seen a LOT of people use the offset head couplers and they match the gauge perfectly.
If you read Kadee's instructions, as the "unknown thousands" have done, you will find that Kadee tells you to check them with the gauge after installation and adjust as necessary, regardless of what car or loco you put them on. Kadee's recommended chart isn't a guarantee that a certain number coupler will fit and be perfectly aligned in all cases without adjustment.
As unmacho as it may sound, I DID read the instructions. That's why I own and use the Kadee gauge. And I'm sure you will have others tell you the same.
Tom,Please reread my relies.I also use the KD coupler height gauge or did you miss that part? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to install KD couplers..After all its common sense installation that the greenest of newbies can do using a KD coupler height gauge and following instructions..
Tom,With the highest respect,I simply fail to see why you are stumbling putting KD #5 couplers on cars and using the toy like off set coupler? I have read many of your replies and know you are a competent modeler.I am just confused why you are having issues.
BRAKIE wrote: Tom,Please reread my relies.I also use the KD coupler height gauge or did you miss that part? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to install KD couplers..After all its common sense installation that the greenest of newbies can do using a KD coupler height gauge and following instructions.. Tom,With the highest respect,I simply fail to see why you are stumbling putting KD #5 couplers on cars and using the toy like off set coupler? I have read many of your replies and know you are a competent modeler.I am just confused why you are having issues.
It's not that Im stumbling on anything. I've worked with a lot of new people in model railroading, as well as other areas. Your replies would seem to lead the newbies to believe that they can just drop in the coupler recommended on the Kadee list, set the car/loco on the rails and run it with no problems.
The point I'm trying to make, especially to the newbies, is that the list is a guideline, not an absolute, plus all couplers MUST be checked with the gauge and adjusted as necessary.
TomDiehl wrote: BRAKIE wrote: Tom,Please reread my relies.I also use the KD coupler height gauge or did you miss that part? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to install KD couplers..After all its common sense installation that the greenest of newbies can do using a KD coupler height gauge and following instructions.. Tom,With the highest respect,I simply fail to see why you are stumbling putting KD #5 couplers on cars and using the toy like off set coupler? I have read many of your replies and know you are a competent modeler.I am just confused why you are having issues. It's not that Im stumbling on anything. I've worked with a lot of new people in model railroading, as well as other areas. Your replies would seem to lead the newbies to believe that they can just drop in the coupler recommended on the Kadee list, set the car/loco on the rails and run it with no problems. The point I'm trying to make, especially to the newbies, is that the list is a guideline, not an absolute, plus all couplers MUST be checked with the gauge and adjusted as necessary.
Tom,I have never suggested to any newbie they can drop and operate..I push 2 things for reliable operation of freight and passenger cars..The NMRA gauge and the KD coupler gauge...Those are are must haves.
Now why complicate the obvious? Again the greenest of newbies car install a KD coupler by following KD's instructions that comes in every pack of couplers which also says to use their coupler height gauge for correct coupler height and the instructions suggest the use of their washers if needed to obtain proper coupler height..How plain and simple can that be? Again,the greenest of newbies can understand that.Heck KD even makes it easy to convert truck mounted coupler to KDs without the need to body mount the couplers IF one wishes to use truck mounter couplers.
Again when its comes to the Athearn car kit care must to taken while assembling the kit and as mention that includes the need to straighten the frame and weight if needed to eliminate the coupler droops..What was so complex about that statement? Does it go against the grain of "expert" advice? I hope not..Its common knowledge and should be a lesson for those that don't know...
The problem I have had most often when adding Kadee couplers to Athearn Blue Box cars (purchased my first one in 1968) has been that one end turns out at correct height while the other end is usually low. The fibre washers have been the quickest fix; and, of course, bending the trip pin so it doesn't snag on frogs. Those Kadee pliars are great for that.
Cheers,
BRAKIE wrote: Don,Look at the pictures I posted..Notice those are #5s and there is NO droop.If you would like better pictures I will post same.
Don,Look at the pictures I posted..Notice those are #5s and there is NO droop.If you would like better pictures I will post same.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD. I have always found Athearn BB cars to be lower than others ... and it looks like one of the cars pictured, its coupler is lower than the other . On Second thought, don't bother. I know how careful you are assembling kits. I don't want to put you to any extra work.
"If you Guys would take your time and build those Athearn cars correctly you would have trouble free cars..Those are simple kits that need to be put together properly and that includes straighten the frame and weight...I am surprise-nay shock - that you guys don't already know that"- BRAKIE
FIRST time I've heard the word "build" in reference to what's been known as 'Shake-the-box' kits. No matter.
I'm glad if your couplers don't droop. You must have figured out how to combine a KD coupler in a non KD box, originally designed for cheap horn-hooks. Unfortunately, 'newbies' don't have your skills.
Q: How exactly do you "straighten" a flimsy molded plastic frame - maybe I should say "what frame? "
Regards.
Hello group, I thought I'd chime in a bit since Kadee has been mentioned numerous times. Thanks to all of you that have commented about using a coupler height gauge as the most important tool to have concerning coupler mounting. The following are a few items I'd like to point out as far as Kadee is concerned.
When we do a coupler conversion and put it on our extensive listing it's based on the particular model we have in our possession and certainly not the entire production run of that model. That's why we always recommend to "check every coupler" against our coupler height gauge. Our coupler recommendations are only a starting point to help you eliminate the process of choosing a coupler. There are many modelers that have little trouble with coupler mounting and have develpoed their skills and experience to the point that they need little if any help. However, there are modelers of all skill levels and some have the darnest times with couplers, mostly with understanding the importance of having "all" their couplers at the "same height" and as "level as possible". So those of you who have the experience and skills I commend you in helping those who ask for help. I rarely have to comment on these forums when modelers ask for help, someone will eventually give them the "correct" help they need.
If the "trip pin" hangs too low, most often, either the coupler is mounted too low or it's drooping (slanted). The trip pins are set at the factory and are very consistent, only rarely do have to adjust the trip pin from the factory. So before you mess with the trip pin always check the coupler mounting. Use the shim washers only up to about .030" after that you should use an offset coupler or find another way to raise the coupler height.
There are manufacturers that do a commendable job of keeping their coupler pockets to certain consistent standards (Kadee thanks you!), however, there are some that simply give little regard (if any) to any standards or modelers desires and needs to use quality dependable couplers on their models. This is why we offer so many products and all of our coupler conversion information.
This is getting far to extensive, I could write a couple of volumes on coupler mounting and fine tuning couplers for top performance but this forum is not the place so those who have comments or questions please feel free to contact me directly at mail@kadee.com.
Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products
Let's see..
No droops..Thats the way all of my cars look..
Anybody care to share their pictures? Anybody?
No droop. Same height. Congratulations.
New cars? New camera? - (New photograph).
Don Gibson wrote: No droop. Same height. Congratulations. New cars? New camera? - (New photograph).
Thanks Don..No,those particular cars dates back to the 90s.The camera is about a year old..Thinking about upgrading to a 6.0 or 7.0 though.
Again nothing special I just straighten the frame and weight to eliminate that droop..