Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIENot likely..There are those modelers that welcome advance layout design discussions.Then there are those with closed minds that believe advanced layout designers are "wrong"because the advanced designers believe in taking the next step in layout design based on prototype railroads..Savvy? And no its not lonely I am in great company since this is the current trend of layout designing...[:D]
QUOTE: Layout Designs..Food for Thought. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I thought it would be nice if we looked at advanced layout designing..This is meant to be food for thought and something that might help on the next layout.. First what is advanced layout designing? That is designing a layout above the basic loop that comes with a train set or a loop of track with 2 or 3 industries. See how truly simple advanced layout planning can be even for the beginner? Ok, now we have the space for a nice layout..Now before we hop into designing a layout there are some questions we must ask ourselves. 1. What do we want in a layout? How many operators? Or solo operation? 2. Do we want a railfan type of layout where we can kick back and watch trains run? 3. Do we want prototypical operations? 4. Do we want to model a given area that we fondly recall? 5. Do we want single track with passing sidings? Double track main line? Branch Line? 6. Why was the railroad built to begin with? It has to have a reason for being. 7. Do we want staging? A working yard with engine terminal? A working passenger terminal? 8. And last but not least is what era do we wi***o model? ------------------------------------------------------------------- A well design layout should or perhaps must be a pleasure to operate for years to come. This will only come by a well thought out track design..When we design a layout we must take the time to study the above questions and answer them to our taste..Anybody can throw down a loop of track with 2 or 3 industries without much thought in planning. Now the bad part..They can and will soon become bored with that type of layout. Now had they taken the time to think out a well designed track plan they would enjoy the layout much better. See what I am saying? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now lets look at the types of designs.. 1. A railfan type of layout. This is a layout design for train watching..This could be designed after your favorite railfan spot now or from years gone by and long gone...Here is where staging yards will really shine. You recall the trains you saw like say a passenger train that rip through the general freights and of course the lowly local as it rolled by or perhaps stopped and switched a industry or 2. 2. Prototypical operations. This is a layout set up to be operated like the prototype. The best part is it does not have to be basement size. This layout will have staging, a working yard, engine terminal and many industries to switch. Tony Koester and the other great thinkers of prototypical operation has suggested a staging yard next to a working yard..This will allow a train to enter the working yard, change crews, add or drop cars before heading off layout on another division, or it could enter the layout from another division drop/pickup cars before continuing across the layout to disappear into staging. 3. The lowly branch line. Here is a track design fit for solo operations in a very prototypical setting. Picture this..A low drivered 2-6-0,2-8-0 or a 4-6-0 leaves the branch line yard to head up the branch with say 5-7 cars and a combine switching cars along the way and stopping at some appointed road crossings to pick up cans of milk or perhaps to leave some LCL freight with a waiting farmer in his pick up truck..Of course you will stop at the station at the end of the branch to unload the LCL, mail and passengers(if any) before switching the few industries or the team track...Fast forward the clock. You can do the same with diesels including the combine during the 50s early 60s..Fast forward you can still model a branch line but add a caboose instead of a combine. If you model to today then use a red flag or fred. 4. Point to point. This type of layout needs more then one operator as a rule and I will hit lightly on it..A point to point layout should have 2 yards and 2 staging yards, single track with passing siding to be enjoyed to the fullest..Now you could use a point to point type layout for a branch line layout since only one train should be ran up the branch. 5. Out and back This is a layout that is designed for a train to leave a yard run across the layout run through a reversing loop and return to the yard from which it came. Not bad for solo operations. 6. The famous loop... A loop does not have to be boring..Add some industries, a small yard with yard lead inbound/outbound track, a small engine service area and the loop de loop layout will take on a life of its own and be very interesting and fun to operate.. 7. Modeling a given area. This type of design is slowly catching on..This is where you model a given area such as your home town or some other area that you like.. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking at a small 4'x8' layout. By using the right design a 4'x8' layout can be a super nice layout..It is my thoughts that we should leave un-prototypical steep grades and mountains off that size of layout and use the space available wisely...By using foam you can add a river, creek or a highway underpass..Use a view block, trees or tall buildings to hide the flatness of the layout. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Less is more. The great thinkers of layout designs suggest that we use less track and not fill the layout up with track and they feel that a train should pass through a scene only once..I fully agree with those thoughts if we have the space for such a layout. To my mind nothing looks as bad as a spaghetti bowl layout design as it kills the affect of most layouts..I will mention that the modeler is of course free to use that type of design if they choose to after all it is their layout.. I do want to mention one more style of layout..This is the industrial switching type..These too must be well thought out least it becomes a living nightmare to operate.. Comment: I find it strange that after all these years these types of layouts are begining to catch on..I am happy to see that. --------------------------------------------------------------------- So in designing your next layout I urge you to think outside of the box and design a layout that will not only look good but give you years of operational enjoyment. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again I offer this up as food for thought for those that may be interested or designing a new layout and in no way meant to be layout design rules.
QUOTE: My thoughts is a train should not pass through a scene more then once
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"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIENot likely..There are those modelers that welcome advance layout design discussions.Then there are those with closed minds that believe advanced layout designers are "wrong"because the advanced designers believe in taking the next step in layout design based on prototype railroads..Savvy? And no its not lonely I am in great company since this is the current trend of layout designing...[:D] No, the wrongness is in believing that "advanced" layout design is somehow superior layout design, as if it were the only worthwhile type of layout design. Buzz words such as "next step" merely highlight the ephemeral nature of the supposed advancement.
QUOTE: Originally posted by selector While I am enjoying reading your thoughts and learning from all of you, I can't restrain the social scientist in me. The introduction of the word "elite" and the responses that it generated figures largely in my learning about culture, groups, and conflict. This forum has been a microcosm for the theory. I think that Joe's observations are most astute. Every field has a culture, and cultures are fluid over time. This hobby has its storms where the beach gets dumped on, and the next gentle tide takes it out. It seems that all of us have to go through the evolutions. Each of us has to learn how to be happy in the hobby. From a lifeview standpoint, being happy is rarely achieved by decrying the thoughts, preferences, and achievements of others. On the other hand, I have learned that with the right frame of mind, marvelling at what others value, happiness is usually right around the corner. In shutting out other thinking, we shut out some of the light. There is so much richness that each of us can bring to the hobby.
QUOTE: Originally posted by nbrodar Dave brings up several good points. First of all, there are lots of dead times on the railroad. In an 8 hour shift, I may only see 2 or 3 road trains. and have yard crews actually switching for 3 or 4 hours. And Brakie, that 6 hour signal isn't my best "waiting" story, I've actually been recrewed before leaving the yard! Where does the visual element come in? It does seem that in the drive toward prototype operation, some of scenic grandure is being left behind. Let's face it, 18" wide shelves are hard to scenic. Especially if you want something other then prarie. I like an interesting visual experiance. Building flats and painted backdrops, just don't light my fire. Interestingly, the last article I read about George Sellios' F&SM, mentioned that he removed some of his vew blocks allowing you to see across several penisulas. The depth of the scenes was breathtaking, and rather refreshing.