Best HO engine kit manufacturer

[Darth Santa Fe]

The only engine kits that I have actually had experience with are Mantua and Bowser. I think Bowser has the best of those two.[:D][:D] I didn't put Athearn in because they didn't make engines that came completely unassembled.

[dknelson]

The old metal Mantua kits, whatever the generic nature of the locomotives themselves, went together well and ran well.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe

The only engine kits that I have actually had experience with are Mantua and Bowser. I think Bowser has the best of those two.[:D][:D] I didn't put Athearn in because they didn't make engines that came completely unassembled.

I must agree with you there! I surely don't care that much for Athearn eather.
As for your Photo........(GEVO)! I love those Locomotives!
Allan.

[Darth Santa Fe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe

The only engine kits that I have actually had experience with are Mantua and Bowser. I think Bowser has the best of those two.[:D][:D] I didn't put Athearn in because they didn't make engines that came completely unassembled.

I must agree with you there! I surely don't care that much for Athearn eather.
As for your Photo........(GEVO)! I love those Locomotives!
Allan.

Actually, I do really like the Athearn stuff.[:)] it's just that they come partially assembled and that's why I didn't put them in. I only put in manufacturers that make engines that are completely unassembled.

[Anonymous]

DJH has got to be near the top of the list - they produced a brilliant White metal and brass USRA Light 2-8-2 and still currently make a fantastic S160 2-8-0. Their UK locomotives are also second to none!

Regards,

Stephen.

[twhite]

Back when you got a steam loco as a kit or bought brass, I had the best luck with MDC and Varney. The MDC kits--especially the Harrimans--went together smoothly, ran well (after a lot of break-in) and were basic enough that you could super-detail them to your hearts content. The only Varney kit I ever built was the 'Casey Jones' 10-wheeler, and the eccentric gear *** near drove me to drink, but it turned out very well, and ran like a dream. Unfortunately, it was lost in the wilds of the Post Office when I moved back to California from Texas in the '60's. I have to admit that I had no luck at all with a Bowser kit, but that was me, not the kit. I was FAR too impatient with it, and you don't do that, if you want a good model (as I found out.). But I liked my MDC's. Still have a couple, and they still run nicely.
Tom [:D]

[cjcrescent]

I didn't vote because you have a mixture of steam and diesel kits there and some of the manufacturers only make one or the other, not both. But, from MY personal experience, here is my opinion;

Bowser: Solid mechanism, very rugged, smooth, and durable, depending on the kit, fair to excellent detail, if built correctly will probably outlast you. Not really good for a first time builder, due to prep of castings and assembly of valve gear and mechanism. Very good pullers

Hobbytown: Same as Bowser, but even more rugged and durable. If assembled correctly, will build into the smoothest running, best pullers made,bar none. I have 3 of these and each one has handled over 100 cars each with no problems.

MDC/Roundhouse: The Harrimans, Old Timers and even the older MDC kits are good for the first timer. Simple to build, and they too are rugged. Some of the earlier ones have a slightly out of round driver that causes the loco to lope down the track. Only cure is to replace that driver. Simple details that allow for a great deal of custom detailing. The only MDC kit NOT good for a first timer is the shay.

Mantua/Tyco: Steam kits are great intermediate kits. These are solid dependable mechanisms. Cary, part of Bowser, offers(ed) boiler castings to turn the somewhat generic mantua boilers into USRAs. Great custom detailing prospects.

Arbour Models: Except for their model of the Sierra RR 4-6-0's, their kits were basically POS. Mechanism was hard to assemble and debug, detail castings were very poorly done. Not a kit for a newbie. They are now out of business.

Pennline: Now Bowser. Same as above.

Varney: Out of Business. But for their time they made excellent kits. Good pullers, great basis for custom detailing. Only complaint I ever had with them was the spring set up in some of their higher priced kits. If you had fair skills and could solder, you could build one.

Tiger Valley: I would rate these as almost as good as Hobbytown, but not as easy to assemble and get right. They haven't been around as long as Hobbytown so I'm not sure of how long they last.

One thing to keep in mind, when assembling a locomotive from a kit, only half of the work is done when the assembly is finished. On some kits, the time spent tweaking, debugging and tuning can be four to five times, if not more, longer than the time spent assembling. But the reward, if it is done right, is more than worth it.

[TomDiehl]

In the old days (the '60's) I put together loco kits because that's all I could afford. I stayed with Mantua/Tyco because they were the cheapest. Later I put together some Bowser kits and could see the reason for the higher prices. Recently I put together some of the newer Hobbytown drive kits for use under old Mantua metal Shark Bodies. These things can pull the walls down and don't need a sound system. The MDC kits I've done look good, but the pulling power leaves a bit to be desired. Also the slow running speed is good if you want a 4x8 layout to look really big.

"Better" would be subjective. All these kits are still in my possession and still running well. All pull a good size train, and look good doing it. What else is there to say?

[nfmisso]

DJH

[randyaj]

I have built about 10 steam engine kits. A couple of the kits were Bowser and the others were MDC/Roundhouse. The Bowsers are alright, but the castings are not the greatest for the price. The MDC are great though and with the new motors they are great operators too.
Randy Johnson

[orsonroy]

I'll be the third to chime in and say DJH.

[BRAKIE]

Just for fun..[:D]
The 50/60s-Penn-Line,Hobbytown and Varney..I have built kits from all three.I never cared for the looks of the Mantua* steam locos-sorry.
70-'05..Bowser,MDC and Hobbytown(now Bear Locomotive).

* The Mantua locomotives was nice and smooth running..Not bad overall and I rate them as excellent locomotives based on yesteryears technology as I do all of the above brands..

[Anonymous]

Built a few Mantua(tyco) kits, then an MDC,,,it was OK, Built a Bowser 4-8-2 Mountain and OHMYGAWSH, that thing could pull stumps out!! True, the basic engine ither the superdetail kit took about 80 hours, but the results were worth it.
However, thats when I was younger. Now that I'm much older, trust me, the RTR steam out there just doesn't make it worth the time invested anymore.

[cjcrescent]

Ray, Nigel, Steve
I didn't say anything about the DJH kits as I haven't even seen one, much less built one. But yall got me curious now, gotta track one down and check it out.

[IRONROOSTER]

I built the Bowser K4 when I first started in the hobby. I found it to be a good kit and good performer. I found it not too difficult, but you do have to take your time and make sure you understand each step before you do it.
Enjoy
Paul

[dinwitty]

I would love to get my hands on a Varney 2-8-8-4 unbuilt kit....

The MDC 2-8-0 kit I put together went very well and ran super, not too much heavy craftsmanship to put together.
My vote will go to MDC,

but the other kit makers are fine

I agree on Arbour that the 2-6-6-6 I am building needs a lot of tweaking, but I will make it work.

I never went the Mantua way much because of the generic feel to their stuff, but I have an 0-6-0 regeared/motored and runs slooow and pulllls.

I rate Bowser high, especially their still in business.

The variety of other kits, DJH, I wish I had my hands on some of these.

[Anonymous]

I like the older mantua and MDC kits, since I am modeling circa 1900 railroading, the manuta old timers as well as the MDC ones fit my bill for motive power as far as kits go. The rest of mine is all AHM Rivarossi (poor mans brass!!!) Cheers MIke

[Anonymous]

I'd have to say DJH makes the best quality steam kits on the market. They are soft metal (pewter?) and brass. The drivers come with a fool-proof quartering method and the brass etched parts are superb. They make a great USATC S-160 2-8-0 kit. They currently have a Gen. Pershing WWI 2-8-0 kit that makes a nice, small engine (Texas State RR #300) as well as an SAR 4-8-2 that can be Americanized for something unique! They have done USRA 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 kits and they show up at shows and on ebay often.

http://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/

No one mentioned Boyd Models. They produced a great GB&W Alco 2-6-0 kit in the early 1970's. I don't know if they ever did any other engines but these were super kits. Not for the timid or beginner but they were quality pewter castings with brass and nickle parts.

The old Mantua kits were very good and I liked the separate brass bearings for the axles. Detail wise they were lacking but they ran well and pulled good. The Mike and Pacific really pulled!

The Varney engines were bullet proof and were well detailed for their time. Someone mentioned wanting an unbuilt Berkshire kit. Try ebay as they show up fairly regularly.....although they tend to get pricey!

The Bowser engines are also very good. They bought out the Penn Line company and have reissued their line of Pennsy engines. The originals had cast metal frames but the newer runs have fabricated brass ones. They did the same with the Varney "Old Lady" and "Casey Jones" engines they now make. I assembled one of the new Bowser PRR A-5s 0-4-0 kits with their superdetail kit and it's really sweet! It went together well and ran great and pulled better than any other 0-4-0 I've ever seen. This is a NEW Bowser engine and not a reissue of a Penn Line kit.

I was never impressed with the MDC/Roundhouse engines. After they started using more plastic parts I really think they lost even more quality. They may have looked better but they didn't perform as well. The 0-6-0 switcher was the best one they made. The MDC kits are great first timer kits though.

The Arbour kits I saw were not worth the money in my opinion. They were very soft castings and I feel their quality control was poor. The parts didn't fit well and they just didn't run from my experience.

The old Hobbytown diesels were really nice for the time. I think you would be better off with the newer plastic diesels and their mechanisms.

I never have seen a Tiger Valley kit but have heard they went togeher well and ran well.

Roger

[Anonymous]

I have been working on an Arbour Models C&O K4 Kanawha. For about 15 years. Most of us know that these kits were pretty expensive, and the mechanisms were pretty bad. I finally gave up, after installing new brass side frames, brass tube bearings for the drivers (the geared driver had an axle smaller than the others, and installing an NWSL drive train and motor. I had spent a lot of time detaling the boiler and tender, but the frame was, as above a POS. I was digging around on my shelf and found a Bowser N&W J replacement mechanism and got to looking the two over and the J mechanism slipped into the Arbour boiler pretty slick. Even the Arbour eccentrics worked pretty well, the tapped threads in the Bowser drivers were the same as the Arbour threads. But the Arbour siderods, drivers, frame, all pretty bad. I ended up with a pretty presentable K4, compared to the brass version I have, but it was a lot of work, only for someone who enjoys taking sow's ears and fabricating a silk purse from them. I am pretty proud of myself. My next project is to try to make a Rock Island R-67 Northern from the Bowser "generic" Northern. Yes, I have the brass R-67, but being a glutton for punishment, this is a challenge.

[Billba]

I have fond memories of a Kemtron HOn3 D&RGW C-16 that I built a pile of years ago. A lot of work, but could be made to run well enough. I picked up a couple more a few years ago, an original and a middle ager. Haven't gotten at them yet, but with all of the newer motors it will be an interesting couple of projects.
I helped a friend rebuild a Varney Mike a few years ago. After it was properly weighted, it would pull studs out of the wall. It ran great as well.
I have a few MDC/Roundhouse Harriman and HOn3 engines that are good.
The same is true of several Tyco/Mantua Pacifics and Mikados I've owned over the years. The earlier comments about Cary's replacement boilers are true, they do help if you want decent USRA models.
All in all, you get what you put into them. Get in a hurry, and they may run good, but don't hold your breath. Take your time and you can have a family heirloom!!

[modelmaker51]

huber25:

QUOTE: I never have seen a Tiger Valley kit but have heard they went togeher well and ran well

Tiger Valley's drive is a virtual knock-off of the HobbyTown "chain & sprocket-under-the-floor- universal" drive. After a break-in period, these too run reeeeal smooth and will pull the walls down as well. (4 axel units weigh 23 to 26 ounces and 6 axel units weigh in at about 32 t0 36 ounces!). They are prowered by a sagami motor. And they also don't need a sound system[:D].

TVM has been around for at least 30 years and I have a couple of old Alcos that I put together more than 15 years ago that seem to just run better and better.

Guilford Mack (Tiger Valley Models), has'nt changed the drive to something more like the modern Atlas or Kato, because he's afraid the weight of locos would strip the plastic gears - his are all brass or steel.

I've been building TVM kits but converting them to Atlas drives for the past 10 years (for MU compatibillity) without any problems - nobody's stripped any gears yet. Here's some shots of the conversion process:

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1440319

and here's the final product (sorry about picture quality):

[pandabear]

As I mentioned in another thread, I came upon an OLD Hobbytown drive kit at my LHS that had probably been there for a decade or more. Just out of curiosity, I looked inside and found out from the instructions that I could modify it for my old Tyco C430 shell! I had never put a kit like this together before, but I managed to put it together without too much difficulty and, man, it WILL pull the walls down, even with it's limited pickup and old open frame motor. It sounds like it's grinding itself into metal shavings at speed, but I think it just adds to the character and allows me to keep my very first engine running and earning its keep for over 30 years!

[grayfox1119]

Being new, can these locos be fitted with decoder?

[modelmaker51]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grayfox1119

Being new, can these locos be fitted with decoder?

Absolutely. Just about any loco can be modified for DCC as long as you can isolate the motor from the frame.

[Anonymous]

i have purchased a varney U D F 7 Union Pacific diesel engine with the crank shaft drive gear in it can someone tell me about it. it runs greatand iam am very interested in finding out more about it

[fwright]

Most of what I would say has already been said...

except Keystone Locomotive Works makes the only reasonable size Shay on the market - and it is a looker!

Of course it takes a NWSL powering kit, and lots of work to make a smooth running beautiful Shay - I'll show you how beautiful and smooth when I finish mine. But I have seen the pictures of those who have completed thier's - and they are truly a sight to behold.

[joegideon]

Over the years, I have probably owned 100 locomotives... mostly brass. It got to a point where I couldn't make up my mind what I wanted to do with my modeling! Just as I would get started on a 'Northern California layout... what could I do with those B&Ms??

I dumped 'em!

I started to notice some of the older, kit-built locos in the magazines... and bought an MDC 2-8-0. I saw a guy with an MDC 0-6-0, MDC ATSF 2-6-2, English ATSF 4-6-2 and a Varney Super Pacific. He also had a PFM brass Ma & Pa 2-8-0, a PFM "Omaha" switcher and a newly-completed DJH MIKE... and the effect was stunning! It was more like the old days than "prototype"... but it was COOL!

I also bought a handful of brass details... I built two of the MDCs- one 'Ol' Timer, one Santa Fe Prairie(older, with a cast-brass boiler!) They were a bit crude when compared with my $900 D&RGW 2-8-0- but hey! I like 'em. I really DO!Certain parts look like a big, massive steamer... Now I wanna find a DJH 2-8-2...