I fear this topic will blow up with people telling me how they do air-brushing, which is just not happening -- I can't afford the gear, don't have the skill. But here we go:
I had a guy, a local modeler of military and space equipment whose stuff looks amazing, happily agreed to air-brush the boiler and chassis (&cet.) of my Roundhouse Atlantic before I build it. But that has fallen through because of his schedule and availability so now I don't have a guy anymore.
I bought the Tru-Color paints (graphite, black) for the job, and I don't know any other way forward but to paint it with brushes. I have an okay steady hand, but it's the texture that brushing might leave behind that worries me.
So my question is this: have any of you successfully painted a loco with brushes and how did you go about it? By "successfully" I mean you don't regret doing it that way. Encouragement and horror stories welcome, just please don't tell me how easy it is to use an airbrush. If you do that, I will be sending you my locomotive to paint for me. Fair warning!
If you know someone trustworthy in the Seattle area I could hire for the job, do dish!
Thanks,
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
crossthedog just please don't tell me how easy it is to use an airbrush. If you do that, I will be sending you my locomotive to paint for me. Fair warning!
I get that! Because you know it's going to happen!
I brush painted a few lcocs, way beck when, with some of my old Tycos and Bachmanns, and Life-Likes, I wanted to "upgrade". That's way before I could afford better engines, and accepted what I got at Christmas, with open arms.
Of course I was always pleased with the results, but that was using the enamels of the day, like the little bottles of good old Testors, which I also used for brush painting my model cars.
Then, later on, when I could buy used Athearns and Atlas engines, I tried spray cans, and that's where I stayed until My son got me an air brush. I'll stop here!
Maybe todays paints will flow better, and even out those pesky brush marks!
Good luck! Show us your results!
Mike.
My You Tube
mbinsewiuntil My son got me an air brush. I'll stop here!
Matt,
I'll be straight with you - I have extensive brush painting experience on models - use an airbrush - you won't get a finish that you like using a brush on a locomotive. Maybe choose another project until an opportunity to use/borrow or buy an airbrush presents itself..
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I have done a little bit of brush painting with testors enamel. It works great if you shake it up. It looks nice but you can only a few colors are available.
I've airbrushed a number of cars with great results. But I have also brushed a few cars and one loco with very good results (IMO). The loco was an 0-4-0 steamer and I used Model Master flat black. For the record, I have also brush painted a number of auto (1/24) models with very good results too.
For me, the key to sucess in this was threefold.
First, get the model clean with a bit of mild dish soap and water and rinse thoroughly. Once done, handle it only with gloved hands.
Second, mix your paint (I love the Badger electric mixer - $10.) thoroughly. You may need to add thinner to get it thin enough to flow evenly.
Third, for "big" areas, use a quality flat, long bristled brush. My "go to" is 1/2 inch wide, with very soft long bristles.
Now you are ready to paint. Keep your strokes in the same direction and flowing from the start point to the end. If you stop in the middle, you may well leave a ridge. Also, "less is better" when it comes to paint "thickness" of coverage. You can always do a second coat, but you can't take a coat off.
In all fairness I have to add...Painting with flat black is about the easiest painting of a loco you could do. If you are doing a diesel in a color scheme, I urge you to test the paint on a practice piece first.
I'm sure others have a lot more suggestions, but I hope this helped.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Sorry but your parameters are too strict. You might as well ask us about doing your own appendectomy. I suppose it might be possible, but no one would do it, except Matt Damon trapped on Mars.
There is a lot of skill required to airbrush neked ladies on a Harley gas tank. Airbrushing a loco or structure is not that hard. Plus you can paint and weather buildings, vehicles, cars and tracks.I realize money doesn't fall from the skies, but there is overtime, cutting back on frivolous expenses and adult beverages or second jobs. You won't ever regret buying an airbrush if building stuff on the MR is what you like to do.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
If your that deadset on brush painting, I would recommend you practice painting a glass bottle(s) first. Get some practice in on brush strokes. Learn how to load the brush, how to use different strokes, practice starting and stopping a stroke, etc.
And when you think you have mastered the stroke enough to leave behind a nice enough finish that you would approve of, then paint your loco.
You said not to mention 'air brush' painting. Ok, well, you said nothing about rattle cans. They are as cheap as your brush and paint, yet use air to apply the paint just as an air brush does.
Rattle cans - poor modellers alternative, but its way cheap, and pretty effective if done right. Recommends here are Testors or Tamiya.
Clear Ahead!
PMR
(couple of hints: thin your paint, use a base coat)
Hello All,
crossthedogSo my question is this: have any of you successfully painted a loco with brushes and how did you go about it? By "successfully" I mean you don't regret doing it that way. Encouragement and horror stories welcome...
If the components are disassembled have you considered a hybrid method?
Using both rattle can and brush techniques.
I have an HO Roundhouse 60-Ton Box Cab locomotive with the track-cleaning option.
Luckily the locomotive was still in kit form- -minimal disassembly required.
I began by using rattle can paints on the largest components:
After the paint on the body had dried completely, I masked along the vertical line of rivets from the ends of the radiators to the lower sill and used Safety Orange to brush paint the side ends of the cab.
Once dried, I then masked the bottom sill and painted it yellow with rattle can paint.
I left the ends of the body black which provides a contrast to the yellow track cleaning pistons.
Had I not installed the track cleaning pistons I would have used decals on the ends of the body to add yellow "V" safety stripes.
Finally, I applied the custom-made decals of my R.R. herald (see avatar) to the center of the body.
When painting with rattle cans I use the "Bane Marie" method of heating the cans to make the paint flow evenly, using light passes rather than just one heavy coat.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Yes, I agree that the rattle can is the best alternative. Flat black primer does a pretty good job. Paint the boiler before assembling the engine. Prep the metal by washing it carefully. Let it dry for 24 hours. Apply the primer and put in the oven for about 20 minutes at 250 degrees. Once painted and your model assembled, you might want to apply a coat of Dullcote. Primer tends to rub off easily without some kind of varnish.
Simon
I'm mulling over the rattle can idea. Sources for Tamiya and Testors online?
Thanks for the responses. Most of you behaved yourselves.
@Henry, I warned you; what's your address?
crossthedogSo my question is this: have any of you successfully painted a loco with brushes and how did you go about it? By "successfully" I mean you don't regret doing it that way.
Yes.
It is not difficult, it just requires different techniques.
There was an excellent video someone shared a couple of years ago of a modeller brush painting a locomotive, and the techniques showed were 99% how I would do it.
crossthedogJust please don't tell me how easy it is to use an airbrush
OK.
crossthedogI bought the Tru-Color paints (graphite, black) for the job, and I don't know any other way forward but to paint it with brushes.
Since you are painting a Rounhouse 4-4-2, the finish of the bare pieces is not A+ to begin with, so brush painting should be just fine.
I would start by undercoating EVERYTHING with a layer of black artist's gesso, thinned so it flows well. Let this dry completely.
When brush painting, ALWAYS thin your paints. I suggest using the thinner made by the same manufacturer as the paints you are using. Using water or alcohol is not the same. Water soluable paints are not necessarily thinned with water. NEVER thin Tamiya paints with water.
I only use water soluable paints for brush painting.
Only use good quality Kolinski Sable brushes.
When brush painting, always paint to a wet edge. Painting over a semi-dry edge can produce brush marks and blemishes.
After each application, let it dry completely, and build up the color in layers as necessary. Even lighten each layer slightly to add depth to the finish.
Do not expect thinned paints to cever in one coat.
This Steam Hearse has a scratch built walking beam steam engine. I made most of the engine from Evergreen plastic.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
This entire model was brush painted, and there are no brush marks on the smooth plastic parts at all.
The pewter parts all have cast-in surface imperfections.
-Photographs by Kevin Parson
I could just as easily painted an HO scale model locomotive using the same techniques.
Let me know if you have any questions.
crossthedog I will be sending you my locomotive to paint for me. Fair warning!
That is also a possibility.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I got this used John English Pacific back in the mid-fifties, and later modified it with an all-weather cab, then scratchbuilt a new tender, and brush painted it...
Some years ago, I disassembled it and will eventually re-build and re-motor it, then airbrush it.
These two locos, from Athearn, were also brush-painted, and I then submitted photos of them to Model Railroader.
In the meantime, I got orders for more of them, and eventually built and brush-painted 51 of them, and another 15 switchers in the same paint scheme, at first using Floquil paint, then later using Polly S.The owner of the hobby shop where these locos were being sold recommended that I buy an airbrush, and I finally did, although I was not at all aware of how to use it.After reading the literature which accompanied the airbrush, I set about learning how to use it properly, and eventually did get very good results, and since that time, have air-brush painted hundreds of freight and passenger cars, along with diesels and steam locos, vehicles, structures, etc., not only for myself, but also for a number of friends.
Wayne
I exclusively brush paint. It started out that I didn't have a good place to set up the needed fume hood and that painting outside in Montana is hard for a good part of the year. It has evolved to getting many compliments on my brush painting skills. I also dry brush my weathering on cars which has taken lots of practice as well.
I have used Floquil, Scalecoat II, Polly S/Scale, Humbrol (which I really liked but is now almost impossible to get), Tamyia*, Mission Models*, Vallejo^, and my current line Tru-Color. I like the Tru-Color in that they make paints that are brushable. I have used the airbrush thinned stuff however I have found that it usually will take two coats to cover properly. The other nice thing with Tru-Color is that it's stable down to 15 below (F) which makes it so much easier to get paints during the winter months. (With the other lines, I didn't order paints from September/October to April.)
*I found that I didn't like both Tamyia and Mission Models paints. The Tamyia didn't cover well and the Mission Models paints would dissolve a previous coat. (Just my experiences. I'm not intending to impune either line.)
^With the Vallejo paints, I can mix colors that are the same or close to what I had with the Polly S/Scale colors. They are mostly airbrush colors that have the mixes (2 coats as well) but I've also had very good luck with the brushable colors as well.
Another thing is to make sure you have good quality brushes and clean them properly to maintain their life. I have amassed a collection of brushes over the years from 000 detail brushes all the way up to 1/4" wash brushes.
It may a dying art but there are those of us out there that still do it.
Hi Matt,
My brush painting skills are horrible so I won't bother to offer any advice in that regard.
However, I have used spray cans on many occassions so I can offer a bit of advice there:
First, mix thoroughly. If the can says to shake it for two minutes, shake it for the full two minutes!
Second, don't get too close to the model. Most paint manufacturers suggest about 12" - 14" away from the target. If you get too close you are more likely to get runs or too much paint in the corners and crevices. Ask me how I know!
Third, as has already been mentioned, put down several very light coats instead of one heavy coat, and let the thin coats dry to the touch before adding the next coat. Read the instructions for proper timing between coats. You should be able to see through the first and the second coats. It may take four or five coats to get proper coverage. I have trouble keeping my coats light when I am using spray cans. It is hard to do because it looks like you aren't accomplishing anything with the first couple of coats.
Apply the paint in a single steady pass. Don't go back and forth and don't go too slowly. Start the pass just slightly to the side of the model and don't release the nozzle until the spray pattern has gone past the other end of the model.
Check between each pass to make sure you don't have any runs. If you do, stop painting and let the paint dry thoroughly to the point where you can sand off the run. If you follow the above two paragraphs you won't be likely to get runs.
If you have hidden spots where you are having trouble getting the paint into, you can spray a bit of the paint into a jar and use a brush.
Be aware that many spray cans put out large volumes of paint. I experienced problems with Testors spray paint in this regard, but in fairness to Testors I was probably too close to the model.
There will be tons of overspray. I suggest getting a large cardboard box and spraying inside of it so that the box collects a lot of overspray. If you have any other models in the area, cover them up. The overspray will settle on them and mess them up. My old club has several nice structures that are covered in sky blue dots of paint because somebody (not me!) decided they could paint the backdrop without protecting everything!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I used rattle spray cans for decades. I had that dreaded fear of airbrushes until I finally took the plunge and bought an airbrush. Once I mastered it, I bought two more.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I've gotten a lot more good, practical advice here than I thought I would -- from mixing and thinning and brush direction to types of brushes and special tricks for rattle can spraying -- and am currently in Mulling It All Over state.
After an early recommendation for Tamiya rattle cans yesterday, I found a model shop owner in downtown Seattle who said on the phone that he has 90 different colors in Tamiya rattlers, six bucks a can. So that is one path I could go down.
But I was really encouraged by those of you who regularly brush paint your locos, or have done. Kevin, that hearse is drop-the-mic gorgeous (drop the brush?). I am seriously tempted to wrap up the Atlantic and send it to you.
And Wayne, as usual, your locomotives are stunning. I wish your photos would enlarge bigger, I often want to see the textures of things up close.
So, as usual, lots to consider.
And I hope everyone knows that I'm kind of a smart aleck in here... I recognize that many of you have journeyed in your skill levels over long years from hand brushing to airbrushing, and have mastered it, and couldn't imagine doing it the hard way when there is clearly an easier way that gives even better results. Thanks for your forebearance with my "too strict parameters".
I have used rattlecans for many years. All of the advice given above is good. For steam locomotives I paint with dark gray auto primer from Rustoleum or Krylon. It covers well and gives the right shade of dark gray. After just a few hours on the road, soot and ash from the stack would cover the entire locomotive with dark gray. They used to paint steamers with dead black, but this was only visable right after the locomotive went thru the wash rack. A few hours running would bring back the gray from soot and ash.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
One warning on TruColor - Unless you have the "Brushable" line, it is designed for airbrushing, so may not give the best results if used other ways. (By designed, I mean not just thinned, but specialized, optimized, etc....)
I will stop there.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
If you're older than dirt then this might ring a bell .... stove polish! John Page the editor of MR used it with brush painting on a metal steam locomotive model and in fact it did look pretty darn good. So good that Floquil refused to advertise in Model Railroader until hell froze over. So then one year Hell, Norway completely froze over and the ad manager for Kalmbach sent a news clipping about it to Floquil and sure enough, they started advertising in MR again.
Dave Nelson
crossthedogAnd Wayne, as usual, your locomotives are stunning. I wish your photos would enlarge bigger, I often want to see the textures of things up close.
Thanks for your kind words, Matt...most of my pictures from photobucket will enlarge if clicked upon, but I seldom do close-up photos unless I'm trying to show very small details, like this undersized rail joiner that required me to use a cut-off disc to narrow the base of the rail, then also remove material from the bottom of the rail, in order to slide the joiner into place...
...to take the photo, I simply held a loupe over the camera's lense, which enlarged the joiner enough to at least be noticed.
I did one with an airbrush which turned out great but I didn't like all the clean up work on the airbrush so stuck with rattle cans for flats.
Just use rattle cans. I painted this with rattle cans. Primed with Tamiya "Fine Surface Primer" and black is Tru-Color "Weathered Black" TCP-4013..
p.s. Photographed on Jim Spice's layout.
Dan