Besides the limited run Athearn/RoundHouse "old timer" consolidations, the other HO scale consolidation models around seem very same-y. The Broadway Limited and Bachmann ones are both larger, two-dome consolidations with more modern valve gears. It just seems strange to me that such a ubiquitous, and varied, locomotive is only available in a couple of very similar models, while stuff like the Mikado we can easily get the light and heavy variants, especially considering the fairly wide variety of Consolidations available, admittedly not at nearly as good a quality, 25-35 years ago. That's not even considering the ubiquitous toy quality steamers from Tyco and Model Power. I do appreciate the variety of big steam and unique prototypes we get these days, and especially the ubiquity of ready to run DCC and sound locomotives with fantastic detailing, but this seems like a strange issue with the market currently.
Well in the market for steam engines apparently size matters. Always has and always will. When HO was in its infancy on the late 1940s about all that was available were variations of 0-4-0 switchers. We have always had a penchant for bigger steam engines and the bigger they are the more they sell. PRR fans have been screaming for H6 and H8 2-8-0 engines for years. It appears to always fall on deaf ears.
I don't particularly mind the size-though my prototype would definitely benefit from some smaller ones. Its that the two different widely available options have almost the same details as per stuff like number of domes, and adding an additional dome to locomotives is not an easy proposition.
The domes (sandbox & steam dome) on the Bachmann Consolidations are pretty-well suited to that locomotive, but if you don't care for their appearance, they can be removed or relocated. You can also get different ones (size and shape) from English's Model Railroad Supply as brass castings.I can't imagine, though, why you'd need more than two on a locomotive of that size.A bigger locomotive, with a longer driver-wheelbase, might benefit from a second sandbox nearer the cab, to facilitate back-up moves, but I can't imagine them on a Consolidation.
I have five Bachmann Consolidations in service, with another three yet to be modified into copies of three particular prototypes.The in-service ones are pretty-well "stock" in appearance, but with a few small details added, plus a lot of not-all-that-visible added weight...
Wayne
The prototype I'm modeling had two 100 ton C-3S Alco-Pittsburgh Consolidation which had the third dome by the cab, as well as several 98 ton C-2 and C-2S Alco-Schen and Alco-Dickson locomotives, which are similar to the BLI model but use running gear much more similar to the Athearn-roundhouse model. I guess my frustration may just be much more with the prototype I am modelling than anything else!
doctorwayne The domes (sandbox & steam dome) on the Bachmann Consolidations are pretty-well suited to that locomotive, but if you don't care for their appearance, they can be removed or relocated. You can also get different ones (size and shape) from English's Model Railroad Supply as brass castings.I can't imagine, though, why you'd need more than two on a locomotive of that size.A bigger locomotive, with a longer driver-wheelbase, might benefit from a second sandbox nearer the cab, to facilitate back-up moves, but I can't imagine them on a Consolidation. I have five Bachmann Consolidations in service, with another three yet to be modified into copies of three particular prototypes.The in-service ones are pretty-well "stock" in appearance, but with a few small details added, plus a lot of not-all-that-visible added weight... Wayne
With the number board added, this looks very much like a 1950 class Santa Fe (which you can get relatively easily in brass, as PFM imported more than 7000 of them).
Oh Yes, I remember those Consolidations~! We used to call them C-Liners!
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
allegedlynerdyI do appreciate the variety of big steam and unique prototypes we get these days, ..., but this seems like a strange issue with the market currently.
We don't manufacture the ordinary and mundain day to day stuff, but rather the rare and exotic.
allegedlynerdyThe prototype I'm modeling had two 100 ton C-3S Alco-Pittsburgh Consolidation which had the third dome by the cab, as well as several 98 ton C-2 and C-2S Alco-Schen and Alco-Dickson locomotives
I'm not at all familiar with the BLI locos, other than for one Mikado which I weathered for a friend.However, I'm wondering if you have any photos of the prototype locomotives which you describe. That might aid in finding suitable matches, most likely in brass, as Bowser does have a selection of such parts.
IHC Texas still sells Mehanos for a reasonable price, from what I can see on their Website. Mehano mechanisms had the reputation of being very reliable and quiet. If they are available, you might want to order 2 of them as their pulling abilities might be problematic.
Apart from the Big Boy and USRA models, chances are you will need to buy used, buy brass or kitbash if you are looking for a specific prototype. Even USRA models had significant variations. On the used market, there are still many available. The brass ones are not that expensive, if you don't mind doing some work on them. In fact, many are much more detailed than the ones offered new these days. MDC and Bowser offered some large ones (SP and PRR prototypes if I'm not mistaken). My MDC runs like a champ.
Compared to other prototypes, I would qualify these offerings as above average. The most mass-produced steam locomotive, the 0-8-0, is not offered new by any manufacturer these days (in HO, non-brass).
Simon
doctorwayne I'm not at all familiar with the BLI locos, other than for one Mikado which I weathered for a friend.However, I'm wondering if you have any photos of the prototype locomotives which you describe. That might aid in finding suitable matches, most likely in brass, as Bowser does have a selection of such parts. Wayne
Here's the prototype images I have for the C-2 and C-2S as they appeared in the era I am modellingC-2 #26
C-2S #29
and the 100 ton C-3S
Obviously a lot of work will need to be done anyways, but messing around with running gear is not something I particularly would care to do.
Many years ago I had a discussion with the representative of BLI. This was before the announcement of their H10 class 2-8-0. With one boiler casting, two different tender shells, and two different cylinder castings along with other minor details. They could produce 3 different classes in an endless variety of sub classes of the venerable and very numerous locomotive ever made. With little change there could be Lines West and Lines East of the H8, H9, and H10 with sub classes. Even the smallest of PRR layouts would need several. But it looks as if the suggestion fell to fruition. Many smaller roads bought second hand H class and there was even one fitted with a Keystone number plate for passenger service protection.
Yes. We need smaller to midsize steam. We could also use some pre 1900 steam too.
Pete.
I know of some Consolidations that had a second sand dome, the Butte Anaconda & Pacific had 2-8-0's with three domes, a slope back tender and Stephensons valve gear.
Those are some very unique locomotives. The headlight on the C2 class is wild. Love the additional side boards on the coal bunker. The snow plow pilot is scary big. Wouldn't want to see a grade crossing accident with that beast. Slide valves on the C2 with piston valve on the C3. Two sand boxes. Must have been needed in the mountains. Sanding the rails in reverse allows the slack to bunch up. Then you get a little help going forward from the draft gear springs and the slack running out.
Two unique locomotives indeed. Maybe find something in brass, but won't be cheap.
The "problem" with Consolidations (and ten-wheelers for that matter) is that there was no USRA version, and while there were similarities between railroads (often depending on whether they were a Baldwin customer or an Alco customer) and their various 2-8-0s, with Mikados, Pacifics and certainother wheel arrangements, a model of the USRA version covers or at least comes very close to what was run by dozens of railroads, for decades. So a manufacturer picks a prototype (Bachmann chose Illinois Central, but made changes to remove the unique IC dome) that is generic looking enough to slap many road names on, but requires work to make more accurate and even then is not likely to be spot-on.
One small 2-8-0 that is nearly forgotten but was a really neat looking model of a pre-1900 looking prototype, was Model Power's that was actually an import from South America by Frateschi. It had a tender drive as I recall which many US modelers do not care for, often with excellent reasons.
Dave Nelson
wrench567 Those are some very unique locomotives. The headlight on the C2 class is wild. Love the additional side boards on the coal bunker. The snow plow pilot is scary big. Wouldn't want to see a grade crossing accident with that beast. Slide valves on the C2 with piston valve on the C3. Two sand boxes. Must have been needed in the mountains. Sanding the rails in reverse allows the slack to bunch up. Then you get a little help going forward from the draft gear springs and the slack running out. Two unique locomotives indeed. Maybe find something in brass, but won't be cheap. Pete.
Actually, these locomotives weren't used in Mountain service-Copper Range Railroad was in Houghton County, Michigan, which while its not flat by any means is no mountain railroad. One of the reasons I like it as a prototype is these unique locomotives-they remind me of the crazy stuff that you see on rocky mountain narrow gauge-on a standard gauge railroad. Definitely a long (and pricey) road ahead of me for it, that's for sure.
Those are certainly some unique-looking locomotives. I prefer the looks of the C-3S (101) over the other two, mainly for the piston valves vs the slide valves on the other two. I do wonder, though, about the lack of a steam dome. I think that the front and rear sandboxes could have easily have taken care of sanding duties, either fore or aft, if the front one had been moved back over the mid-point of the first two driver-sets, and likewise for the rear one if it had been moved forward over the space between the two rear-most driver sets. That would have left space in between them for that mid-sandbox to be, instead, a steam dome.I must admit that I'm no expert on the foibles of steam locomotive designs, but the lack of a steam dome does leave me wondering how, or what was used instead.The Bachmann Consolidation looks to me as if it could, with some re-working, be suitable to model the 101, due to its boiler diameter. The details shouldn't be too hard to alter. The fly in the ointment is that the drivers on that loco are considerable smaller than those under the Bachmann loco.
I have three other Bachmann Consolidations (besides the five that are in-service), with all three destined to be, hopefully, two fairly accurate models of two specific CNR locos, and similarly one of a DW&P prototype.I addition to those, I have the boiler and running gear of a Tyco tender-drive Consolidation, but will convert it into a loco with the motor in the locomotive. The plus side of this is that the running gear has 55" drivers, the same as on the prototype that I'll be copying...
I'm guessing that the 101 C-3S also has, by the looks of it, fairly small drivers, too. If you're planning to model it, you might want to keep an eye out for one of those Tyco tender-drive Consolidations. From what I've seen, they weren't all that popular, but I think that they won't be too difficult to convert to a motor in the locomotive, with a NWSL drivetrain and gearbox.As far as I'm aware, you can still buy the Bachmann Consolidation boiler casting as a separate item, as it looks like it should be a decent match size-wise (with dome modifications, along with some other details) for making a model of the C-3S.
This has always been a mystery to me as well. I model SP and West coast lines and the Bachmann is too big for those roads. While the Spectrum is too big, with the vandy tender and some decals, they make reliable, inexpensive stand ins. I have several of these - they run great.
I have resorted to brass for most of the proto correct locos and short line stand ins - among the contenders you might consider are:
Westside models Sierra # 24 - small consolidation hitting close to the looks of your prototypes. Certainly the drive train could be used for a kibashed boiler. I have five of these - two run amazing, two run OK and one was kitbashed with another drive...
Sunset Models (various runs) - Sunset made lots of runs of SP considations. For the most part these are smooth runners and could be bashed into what you are looking for. I have four of these that run pretty well.
NWSL/Toby 2-8-2 - 70 ton logging loco - this one is very close in boiler shape to some of your prototypes it can be run without the trailing truck. Mine needed remotoring - these are harder to find.
Another idea is taking the Spectrum 2-10-0 and removing a driver set - there was an article on this in the past few years in the hobby press - looked pretty straight forward and the locos are relatively easy to find....
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
wrench567 very numerous locomotive ever made
Not even close to the most numerous ever made. That honor goes to the German "Kriegslok" 2-10-0's with at least 7,794 units. DRB Class 52 - Wikipedia
Even on the PRR, the total of the H8, H9 and H10 classes combined (1515) was less than the H6 class (1707). I'm a happy owner of models of both (and RDG's "USRA Consolidation" I10sa - now all I need is a WM H-9a and for someone to produce a L&HR Class 90 to complete my heavy Consolidation roster).
doctorwayneI addition to those, I have the boiler and running gear of a Tyco tender-drive Consolidation, but will convert it into a loco with the motor in the locomotive. The plus side of this is that the running gear has 55" drivers, the same as on the prototype that I'll be copying...
Is that the Tyco Chattanooga 2-8-0? 55" drivers would be nice for some of my projects...
I wish someone made a connie with 55-57" drivers. The Bachmann is excellent, but it's on the large side.
Gary
I need to get my measure tape and check. There are a number of options on the used market, including Mantua (with motor under the boiler), Tyco, Mehano and Rivarossi.
I ended up getting an IHC Premier consolidation. I have an old IHC Pacific that I've been pretty happy with, and I figure I'll have to do a lot of superdetailing to get everything "right" to my prototypes anyways, so it seemed a good starting point.
The Brazilian firm of Frateschi has a model of a consolidation built in 1908 by Baldwin that was modernized. It lasted in service to 1960. It is supposed to be 1:87 scale (not the 1:76 scale they used to use) DC. The couplers are a bit of a problem. The front coupler looks to be a molded on dummy, but I think a bit of work with a hobby knife and file would leave you with a hole you could mount a Kadee in. The tender sports Fraschetti's proprietary coupler which is nothing like North American models. But it should be easy to remove and you could build a mounting pad out of plastic stock with ACC and a screw to hold the coupler pocket in place. Anyway, take a gander
Locomotiva Consolidation – Frateschi
If you go on line there are vendors in the US who carry Frascheti products (which include FA-1's, RS-3's and a Brazilian twin to the New Haven's EP-4 electrics!)