Tinplate Toddler Renegade1c Resin Printers are getting really cheap (<$500) I wouldn´t call that cheap!
Renegade1c Resin Printers are getting really cheap (<$500)
I wouldn´t call that cheap!
I should have said relatively speaking. They used to be in the $10,000+ range 10 years ago.
Speaking relatively that's two well detailed sound locomotives. :)
Colorado Front Range Railroad: http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/
IMHO I always found kitbashing and maintenance skills more important then scratchbuilding.
I once combined two AHM Interlocking Tower kits(kit # 5825) to make a very nice two story yard office. This was far cheaer then buying the needed scratchbuilding supplies.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Dave and others bring up interesting points.
I'm fairly new to the hobby. I've been building my own N Scale buildings and calling what I've done, "scratchbuilding".
However, I used windows from Tichey, plastic from Evergreen, etc.
So technically, I didn't really "scratchbuild" the buildings.
I didn't mix up my own solutions of glue and paint, I didn't make the LED bulbs I use, and I didn't make the wire.
Regardless, I'll probably continue to tell people I scratchbuilt a building, and most of us will know what that means.
I also can see that for competitions, there would have to be very explicit rules on what the definition of 'scratchbuilt' is.
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
Renegade1c Tinplate Toddler Renegade1c Resin Printers are getting really cheap (<$500) I wouldn´t call that cheap! I should have said relatively speaking. They used to be in the $10,000+ range 10 years ago. Speaking relatively that's two well detailed sound locomotives. :)
I have also 3d printed my own model railroad parts, and designed a 48ft BN well car from scratch.
That said, I will answer the OP's question. And it will be a bit complex, so I'll start witht the short answer
SHORT ANSWER:
Yes scratchbuiling is worth learning still, but you won't use it much. It may depend on a specific project too.
LONG ANSWER:
I'm afraid I will be frustrating a lot of modelers who have spent their whole life using more time proven techniques for building models, but 3d printing will be the go to for many modelers moving forward. I agree with those members here that are of the resin 3d printing party. It is cheap ($500), better detail than ANY scratchbuilding, and is relitively simple to pick up. If you can print your cardstock models or make paper signs using an ink printer, you can use a resin 3d printer. MAKING your own files IS a steeper learning curve than printing someone else's, but it is worth it if you are open minded and willing to add a new trick to your toolbag.
There have been untrue complaints of high prices and poor details. People using 3d printers (especially resin ones) are people looking for very specific and detailed models, which cost $300 a locomotive ANYWAY, so a $500 dollar INTIAL investment saves money in the end run (like solar panels for your home). In terms of detail level, we aren't in the STL age anymore. Those were crude. The resin ones that are incidentally cheaper are NOT. So crude details are no longer a valid point.
3d printing caters to small and medium projects were the modeler has fairly to very high demands for prescision and detail, cannot find a commercial model of what he/she wants, or just wants to save money by making everything.
It is probably not for those who are not rivet counters, people who can get the models they need elsewhere, and/or those with a more comfortable hobby budget.
Also its just plain stupid to try to 3d print a 5 foot gaint trestle. THAT would be a good example of something to scratchbuild.
My 2 cents. I know I'll get a lot of flak for this post but oh well.
I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.
Scratchbuilding is, in my opinion, a valuable skill..When you are done, you know YOU built it (not just assembled pre made parts)..I respect skills necessary in both sides of this discussion but I feel personally, you have more pride in the project when you have "made it yourself"....Probably an old fashioned viewpoint but that is my humble opinion.
I have fourteen cars on my workbench right now being built from scratch. So obviously scratchbuilding is still relevant to me. I enjoy finding a prototype that I like and then figuring out how to build it. Scratchbuilding is not a cheap way to make a car and parts are getting more difficult to find. Just assembling the parts to make a complete "kit" proir to building the car is a major endeavor. It is more efficient to plan to build multiple cars at the same time. Then the actual construction takes far more time than assembling a commercial kit, especially the cutting and driling. But in the end you can have a unique model and be proud of what you did. You can say, "I made that!".
I started scratch building in the late 50s primarily because there was not a lot of model railroad stuff available and I was a kid so I couldn't afford what was available. Back then, you got a sheet of balsa and scribed your own siding and learned a lot or what is now called 'repurposing'.
Now, 3D and laser cutting are just more tools in the box. In my opinion, I prefer using wood for wood.
I recently modeled an old Colorado Central water tank using some old photos. I estimated a scale on the photos, drew up the plans on DesignCad (instead of pen and ink on a drafting table). The tank was round and tapered. This looked difficult to model so I created a 3D core on the local library's 3D printer. Not fine resolution but served my purpose. I also printed a 3D core for the hexagon tapered roof section. I covered the roof with styrene panels (not available back in the day). I calculated the number of approximately 8" wide water tank boards. Since they were tapered from top to bottom, I cut 56 of them on a 1/64" plywood on the library's laser printer. These were glued to the sides of the tank core and came out perfectly. The base was made from milled basswood with balsa internal bracing.
The point of all that is I am still scratch building but using all of the wonderful tools and materials that are available today to be a better modeler. By the way, the tank qualified for an NMRA merit award.
It all depends where you want to take your modeling. To paraphrase Bob Ross, 'it's your world, do what you want."
Dennis
Heap-Big Chief Engineer & COO
I do not think it has ever been important to learn how to scratch build. I am saying that as a fairly-well-skilled scratchbuilder.
I have visited many layouts where nothing was scratchbuilt, and the owner was having a great time with his creation.
Model Railroading provides enjoyment, and there are many ways to squeeze that enjoyment from it. Especially today, scratchbuilding is not a requirement.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Craftsmen have always build models for their model railroads since the beginnng of modeling.
Back in the late 80' and early 90's many arts and craft people bought scroll saws to build intricate detail things to sell at arts and crafts shows. But then came along the laser cut things.
It soon became known that people that had spent so much money on lasers really had no talent other than knowledge of how to operate a computer, but some may have trouble tying their shoes. The scroll saw people were true craftsmen and women many of which came up with their own patterns and learned how to build things from scratch using tools at hand.
3D printing is much like the laser operators and scratch builders are craftsmen
Random_Idea_Poster_6263 As a beginner in the hobby, I understand that with the advent, and improving 3D printing industry it has never been easier to create the shell bodies of locomotives you want to build, rolling stock, and structures. However I have also come to realize, and ask you fellow fourm memebers, is scratchbuilding still is an import skill to learn? I am guessing that there are things 3D printing cannot build and have the effect of copared to say, an entirly scratch built trestle out of real metal, like the CPR Stony Creek trestle build I saw featured in an article in an older issue of MRR I discovered on the digital archives.So, regardless of the advantages 3D printing has, is still imporant to learn scratch building from basic materials, and kit bashing as well? I feel this has an advantage, as you mean, feel and actul create with many materials instead of the basic 3D printing stuff.What do you think, and what would your advice be?
As a beginner in the hobby, I understand that with the advent, and improving 3D printing industry it has never been easier to create the shell bodies of locomotives you want to build, rolling stock, and structures. However I have also come to realize, and ask you fellow fourm memebers, is scratchbuilding still is an import skill to learn? I am guessing that there are things 3D printing cannot build and have the effect of copared to say, an entirly scratch built trestle out of real metal, like the CPR Stony Creek trestle build I saw featured in an article in an older issue of MRR I discovered on the digital archives.So, regardless of the advantages 3D printing has, is still imporant to learn scratch building from basic materials, and kit bashing as well? I feel this has an advantage, as you mean, feel and actul create with many materials instead of the basic 3D printing stuff.What do you think, and what would your advice be?
WILLIAM SHEPARD3D printing is much like the laser operators and scratch builders are craftsmen
I beg to differ!
The 3D printing process is just the outcome of a lot of work done before that! You need to have a lot of construction skills to design your model, using a CAD tool to do the job. Without that knowledge, you won´t be able to either scratchbuild nor 3D print a model.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
WILLIAM SHEPARDscratch builders are craftsmen
This is where we get dangerously close the the "what makes a real model railroader" sewer of discussion.
Scratchbuilding is a specialized set of skills that is not required to build an operating and enjoyable model railroad empire.
I enjoy scratchbulding, and I think it adds to my enjoyment of all my hobbies. I also enjoy building resin and craftsman kits, and fine tuning brass locomotives. None of these skills is necessary.
To answer to OP's question, which I tried to do above... scratchbuilding is not, and has not been, a required skill. It is enjoyable to some, and annoying to others.
Tinplate Toddler WILLIAM SHEPARD 3D printing is much like the laser operators and scratch builders are craftsmen I beg to differ! The 3D printing process is just the outcome of a lot of work done before that! You need to have a lot of construction skills to design your model, using a CAD tool to do the job. Without that knowledge, you won´t be able to either scratchbuild nor 3D print a model.
WILLIAM SHEPARD 3D printing is much like the laser operators and scratch builders are craftsmen
That is simply untrue. As I said earlier:
"It is cheap ($500), better detail than ANY scratchbuilding, and is relitively simple to pick up. If you can print your cardstock models or make paper signs using an ink printer, you can use a resin 3d printer. MAKING your own files IS a steeper learning curve than printing someone else's, but it is worth it if you are open minded and willing to add a new trick to your toolbag."
I can design an entire house, shack, depot etc in an afternoon in sketchup, and print it in another 3-4 hours. No needing to draw the plans in 2d and then having to put them together as a 3d structure. Saves time, store trips, different styrene sheets, and money.
Drawing plans and drawing in CAD is barely different. One is paper and pencil, the other mouse and screen.
I wasn´t talking about rather simple things like structures, although even they can be quite complex, if you add any "protruding" or overhanging details. You need to design supports to make your object printable, that often depends on your printer and the material you use. If you want to build a complex object, like a locomotive, you will have to design it in various subassemblies and sometimes use different materials for the prints.
Last, but certainly not least, the size your printer is able to print, determines how many parts you my need, if your object is going to be larger than the maximum print size.
BNSF UP and others modeler "It is cheap ($500), better detail than ANY scratchbuilding, and is relitively simple to pick up. If you can print your cardstock models or make paper signs using an ink printer, you can use a resin 3d printer. MAKING your own files IS a steeper learning curve than printing someone else's, but it is worth it if you are open minded and willing to add a new trick to your toolbag."
Probably in 5-10 years I will be adding a 3D printer to my model building desk.
Passenger Car Interiors are #1 on my "to print" list.