Hi gang. I just finished watching an episode of American Pickers where they bought a pre world war two Lionel passenger train for $8,000.00 but when they sold it at auction it only brought in $3,500.00... They were sick about it and I would be too if I lost $4,500.00 like that. They should have started out at least at $7,500.00. Oh well. That's what happens when you don't set a reserve price.
Have any of you ever taken a loss on something train related that you bought and sold in hopes of making a profit on?.
I saw that episode earlier in the year. Yea, it was definitely a gut punch for Mike & Frank. Proves it's not a good idea to make an offer for something before checking things out thoroughly.
To answer your question, I don't purchase MRRing-related items with the idea of selling them at a later date. I only purchase items to use on my layout.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I have not seen this eposode, what # was it? But beside that I have seen them overpay for alot of stuff over the years, sometimes the mistakes are condition wise others market wise.
Simply put, they paid way too much for it in the first place. Especially if it wasn't a particularly rare piece, which is likely. Those oddball paint scheme pieces that really fetch the high prices are exceedingly rare to come across. An ordinary set, just because it's pre-war, doesn't mean megabucks.
Then there's the whole contingent that will say they ruined the value by restoring, unless they ONLY used period correct parts, right down to the wire.
I actually was given a pre-war set, a friend took it to a dealer who tried to rip her off - told her it was most definitely NOT a pre-war set, and a few other whoppers. I'm no Lionel collectible expert, but I do know the difference between a pre-war set and a post-war one - I have one of each, the post-war one having been my Dad's set. I actually got the pre-war one to run, but the transfomer needs a new power cord before I would ever actually trust it, and there's a lot of rewiring that is needed to make it run reliably. I have plans to set it up and use it, and as such I will repair it as needed - and I frankly don't care if I use 1930's wire or just use some modern wire, I plan to actually run it, not sit it on a shelf and stare at it fondly. It's not a worthless set, the loco alone in its poor condition typically goes for about $150 based on completed listings, fixed up it might be worth $250. So it's not going to pay my mortgage if I sell it off, and anyway sometimes I just like to see these beasts run. There's something about a solid chunk of metal with real heft like those old Lionels. The set I bought in the early 90's with its plastic loco and a can motor just isn't the same.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
As I recall, what they bought was a 1930's standard gauge "Blue Comet" set. $8000 would be right if it was in Mint or New condition, with the original boxes & literature. What they bought didn't have the boxes, and was in Good to maybe Very Good condition. If they had taken the set outside in the bright sunlight, they probably would have noticed some cars had been either repainted or at least "touched up", and all showed signs of wear. IIRC some parts were missing or damaged too.
Although "Danni D" took the blame for forgetting to set a reserve / minimum starting bid, the amount they got for it at auction was pretty much the fair market value of the set in the condition it was in. I forget how much she was supposed to set the minumum at, but it was way higher than the set was really worth.
Yeh, in the Lionel trade, boxes can be a very big deal, also condition of said boxes and a few worth more than the cars for a moment in time.
Your right on a lot of the details, Stix, so I just had to look for the episode title "Train Wreck".
It's a Lionel States Set. They bought the very rare brown colored set.
https://www.google.com/search?q=lionel+state+set+1931&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRppvM94nYAhUBLSYKHUxDDPkQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1280&bih=571#imgrc=F49L6WAZSAB1fM:
I remember watching that episode.
Mike.
My You Tube
If I remember correctly, Frank is the toy guy, and he was looking askance, or at least standing off and not being very enthusiastic when Mike Wolf was ogling this train set. It was Mike who was so enamoured with the items, and he, the bicycle and motorcycle guy, was out of his depth. While he usually has a pretty good feel for the true value of something, his 'eyes were bigger than his belly' on this one. Too bad, so sad, love, dad.
I will say that Mike has shown in some episodes that if he practically doubles his money on some things, he'll go back and offer to correct the situation. One time he purchased a side show or circus canvas banner, hand-painted and somewhat rare, very desirable, for about $2000 or so, and ended up near to $7000 on appraisal. Still not sold, he and Frank drove back to the town and paid the guy another couple of thou...or something, don't recall the exact figures. He seems a stand-up guy, whether he gets hosed or whether he comes out well ahead.
Don’t feel bad for those guys because they make a lot of money just for being on the show. Their pay easily covers their loss. Here is the thing: They fell for the old myth that if it’s an old Lionel train that is must be worth a fortune. When I go to train shows I see mountains of old Lionel that people think is valuable but doesn't sell. To appraise an item you have to know what a similar item has sold for recently. Checking completed/sold items on eBay is a good reference unless you personally have sold a similar item yourself recently. When I watch Antiques Road Show I often see them over estimating the value of items especially pocket watches and jewelry. Personally I have never lost money on an item which I bought to resale because I am very choosy on what I buy. I used to buy old reel to reel tape recorders for almost nothing at garage sales and resale them for hundreds online. The market kind of faded away on that now but for a while it was pretty good.
Nobody is feeling sorry for them.
To answer the OP's question, I don't buy train items to resell, I buy them to run.
I have, on a few ocassions, bought, fixed up, or restored old lawn and garden tractors. That's my summer time hobby. That is a labor of love, not a big profit maker.
Ah, the State Set, yes that's right. I remember now that I wondered at the time I watched it if a State Set would be worth more than a Blue Comet or not.
I remember in the episode of "The Sopranos" where the guy got shot at TrainWorld, he was discussing buying a Blue Comet set for I think $8000 - only it was an O gauge Blue Comet, not Standard Gauge, so wasn't worth anything like that much.
selector It was Mike who was so enamoured with the items
Nope, it was Frank.
The reason it sold for so much less than expected was because it had been restored and they didn't notice when they bought it. If it was original, unrestored and in that condition, it wouldn't have been a bad buy.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Yes restored means damage to original, can bring much less.
Well, so much for my memory, Carl. Thanks for correcting me. This makes it all the more baffling because Frank is the toy guy. You'd think he would have had occasion to consider the value of a train collection once or twice.
Love that photo.
Well, it seems like Mike and Frank have a really good knowledge of a lot of things, but aren't true 'experts' on anything except motorcyles, bikes, and (Frank) general toys. For example, there's been a time or two they skipped on buying some musical instruments that would have been a good investment if they had known a little more about them.
Just shows to go you. It's OK to wheel & deal when you know the products and the market. But if you just think "old toy trains" automatically means big money, you're in way over your head.
Caveat Emptor.
selectorThanks for correcting me.
It's actually a little embarrassing to be so familiar with American Pickers. I can't stand to watch the news anymore so this is what I watch instead. The TIVO always keeps a few episodes queued up for me.
These reality type shows are interesting at times; others just ridiculous. Storage Wars was revealed as being staged on many occassions. There was one episode where one of the bidders of a locker found a Lionel UP train set. Took it to a train store and was told it was worth $1200 if I remember. However, they take it out of the box and run the set! There goes a little value. Also, they tell you the value of the locker and their profit after what they paid, yet they never show an actual sale of items bought and what they really made. It's more about the players or 'bidders'. Every now and then there's one of these shows where a rare find does come up.
Neal
nealknows These reality type shows are interesting at times; others just ridiculous. Storage Wars was revealed as being staged on many occassions. There was one episode where one of the bidders of a locker found a Lionel UP train set. Took it to a train store and was told it was worth $1200 if I remember. However, they take it out of the box and run the set! There goes a little value. Also, they tell you the value of the locker and their profit after what they paid, yet they never show an actual sale of items bought and what they really made. It's more about the players or 'bidders'. Every now and then there's one of these shows where a rare find does come up. Neal
Getting OT here, but the pattern is that the show's stars always seem to find one item of value in a see of junk. That's odd, IMO.
I'll bet the producers of the show collaborate with the owners of the storage facility to open the lockers......unpack the locker.....plant the item.....then repack the locker and relock it.
It makes for a good show. It can be educational in an entertaining way, so I don't have a problem with it being less than authentic.
As far as OP:
I've never bought anything in the model railroad hobby with the specific purpose of simply reselling it.
- Douglas
Frank played outof his league, he is not the expert he thinks himself to be. Funny thing there are several mr clubs close to his Savanna shop and the members there could have given him good advice on what it is worth.
I never feel bad when a speculator gets hosed.
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
JumijoI never feel bad when a speculator gets hosed.
Nor do I. Most folks forget the shows are still paying them to BE ON THE SHOW. That's a nice little buffer in a case like this.
Nope, all the money I spend on model trains stays spent. I didn't get into this hobby for an investment I got into it for my own enjoyment. As for the American Pickers Guys I don't feel sorry for them. Those guys get paid just for being on the show. It's because of these shows every jackwagon in some podunk flea market and every yard sale thinks their old crap is worth a fortune.