riogrande5761 Doughless Generic is the demand, as it always has been, which is why Athearn BB and MDC sold so well. The key word being "past tense" sold so well, but as I quoted above, not since they shut blue box production down 8 years ago. Just sayin... Which explains why Tangent, ExactRail, Athearn Genesis, Intermountain, Moloco and Wheels of Time are selling so well? And why relatively few (in comparison) generic kits are still being produced?
Doughless Generic is the demand, as it always has been, which is why Athearn BB and MDC sold so well.
The key word being "past tense" sold so well, but as I quoted above, not since they shut blue box production down 8 years ago. Just sayin...
Which explains why Tangent, ExactRail, Athearn Genesis, Intermountain, Moloco and Wheels of Time are selling so well? And why relatively few (in comparison) generic kits are still being produced?
I think you misunderstood. I agree that the Athearn BB and MDC are gone. But thats not because they were generic, its because the new norm is finer detail, but not roadname specific detail.
Generic finer detail has replaced generic molded detail as the new norm, and people don't want to go through the hassle of applying generic finer details, so the market has moved more to RTR from kits.
I'm sure the Athearn RTR, Atlas, Intermountain (not really a niche company, IMO), Walthers master products far outsells the Tangent, Exactrail, and who ever else you mentioned.
In the 1960's generic was the norm, and some would modify those kits with details more specific to their prototype. The modelers who want those roadname specific details exist today also, but go to the niche companies and buy RTR, rather than modifying a generic RTR product.
Generic is still the norm. In the 1960's they were kits. Today they're RTR because of the hassle of applying the finer details that are the norm.
- Douglas
garyaI build kits in hotel rooms but the lighting isn't good enough for me to install grabs.
.
My wife bought me a folding OTT-Lite for Christmas last year that solved this problem completely. It folds down to about the size of a shoe so it fits in a suitcase. I can built in hotel rooms now with ease.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
TheGamp Paul3 ...Today, people want to run trains. They'd rather spend an hour running fully built models than an hour building a kit (not to mention the hours and hours it takes learning how to build kits). We had to build kits back in the old days because that's practically all there was... Sometimes I think I'm running out of ability to visualize just how small the circles I've signed onto are on the Multidimensional Venn Diagram of Model Railroading.
Paul3 ...Today, people want to run trains. They'd rather spend an hour running fully built models than an hour building a kit (not to mention the hours and hours it takes learning how to build kits). We had to build kits back in the old days because that's practically all there was...
We had to build kits back in the old days because that's practically all there was...
Sometimes I think I'm running out of ability to visualize just how small the circles I've signed onto are on the Multidimensional Venn Diagram of Model Railroading.
Gary
Doughless I agree that the Athearn BB and MDC are gone. But thats not because they were generic, its because the new norm is finer detail, not roadname specific detail.
IMO road specific detail IS important, not just finer detail. There has been a strong movement toward road specific detail over the past 8 year or so. Some of the most recent and amazing examples have been models like those by Tangent and Moloco which copy specific box cars - Moloco released a Penn Central box car where there were differences in the position and printing on both sides, exactly like the real thing. They released MILW, Frisco and NW box cars exact copies where the ACI labels and COTS were different on each car exactly matching the prototype. Even the Frisco animal skin logo matched a certain car in the way it was unevenly applied. Stupendous!
Tangent has been releaseing freight cars which match photo's of actual freight cars dead nuts. They even did a DryFlo BN car with the RR name mispelled just like the real car. Theyve done a bunch of one off variation of the baby Hicubes. And certainly Athearn Genesis has been coming out with box cars that match prototypes too RR specific, Genesis diesels, same. Wheels of time for sure.
I'm sure the Athearn RTR, Atlas, Intermountain (not really a niche company, IMO), Walthers master products far outsells the Tangent, Exactrail, and who ever else you mentioned ( thats not even including their Roundhouse, Trainman, and Trainline product lines.)
Tangent, ExactRail, Athearn Genesis and Moloco are selling well and gaining a fan base. Sure, they are not cheap but but people are sitting up and noticing and more and more modelers are going for fewer - more accurate models rather than a bigger fleet of generics.
You cant really assume there was a lack of demand for Athearn BB and MDC since the decision to eliminate the kits was made by the same company that also offers premium product, so who knows what really went into that decision.
Now it seems like you are trying to wind me up with the above comments. Common sense tells us, yes you can assume it - it was a business decision because the blue box stuff wasn't selling. Companies don't stop selling something if it's making them a nice profit. Now look, it's ok to admit your wrong so - it won't hurt as much as you think.
Independent companies like Accurail and Branchline (okay, just recently acquired by Atlas) are still producing kits, and Scaletrains just entered the market with a few offerings. So their must be a demand for generic kits (that Athearn says wasn't there)
Yes, of course, there is a demand but it is a limited demand. The amount of kits being made today is just enough to service that demand in balance with the glut of kits that still remain on the secondary market.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 garya I enjoy kit building, so I'm sad to see kits disappear, ... like Tichy's kits, but I do enjoy Bowser, Accurail, and other shake-the-box kits. There is no need to be sad. The kits have NOT disappeared. I tell you I go to the Timonium train show and see kits there by the table - yes, including Tichy - which I think are actively still making kits. Maybe the problem is how you find the Athearn, MDC, Accurail and all the rest - train shows, Ebay, HOswap (yahoo groups) which has kits advertised nearly every day! Good grief man, all you want is still out there for the taking. Celebrate! This is the golden age - there are tons of stuff people think were gone but are not, plus lots of new amazing products. I just can't understand why people are sad, there is no reason to be.
garya I enjoy kit building, so I'm sad to see kits disappear, ... like Tichy's kits, but I do enjoy Bowser, Accurail, and other shake-the-box kits.
There is no need to be sad. The kits have NOT disappeared. I tell you I go to the Timonium train show and see kits there by the table - yes, including Tichy - which I think are actively still making kits. Maybe the problem is how you find the Athearn, MDC, Accurail and all the rest - train shows, Ebay, HOswap (yahoo groups) which has kits advertised nearly every day!
Good grief man, all you want is still out there for the taking. Celebrate! This is the golden age - there are tons of stuff people think were gone but are not, plus lots of new amazing products. I just can't understand why people are sad, there is no reason to be.
I'll just go to Timonium this weekend and pick up a Red Caboose X-29 kit, then. Problem Solved!
All I want is out there for the taking? Really? Is there a US equivalent to these:
http://steameramodels.com/locos.htm#steam
http://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/
http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/index.html
I enjoy building things, even simple kits, and would rather buy a kit than buy RTR. While I appreciate that I can get old BlueBox kits from someone's estate sale hoard, the point is that manufacturers, by and large, have moved away from kits. So the odds of a new/upgraded steam locomotive kit from Bowser (or anyone else) are 0%. Or maybe I want a Swift 37" reefer kit--no dice. That's why I'm sad. I certainly understand the economics and I don't fault the manufacturers at all, but sure, I wish it were different. So I can go down the road of $50 resin kits, or make do with what I've got, and hunt eBay et al.
Sometimes I go and look at a sister Kalmbach publication, Fine Scale Modeler, and its Forum, and look at what people there do. It's quite interesting.
You seem to be heavily invested in this thread, and I'm not sure why. You have many long responses and I think you're deliberately misunderstanding people, though you seem to feel we're beating a dead horse....
riogrande5761 Doughless I agree that the Athearn BB and MDC are gone. But thats not because they were generic, its because the new norm is finer detail, not roadname specific detail. IMO road specific detail IS important, not just finer detail. There has been a strong movement toward road specific detail over the past 8 year or so. Some of the most recent and amazing examples have been models like those by Tangent and Moloco which copy specific box cars - Moloco released a Penn Central box car where there were differences in the position and printing on both sides, exactly like the real thing. They released MILW, Frisco and NW box cars exact copies where the ACI labels and COTS were different on each car exactly matching the prototype. Even the Frisco animal skin logo matched a certain car in the way it was unevenly applied. Stupendous! Tangent has been releaseing freight cars which match photo's of actual freight cars dead nuts. They even did a DryFlo BN car with the RR name mispelled just like the real car. Theyve done a bunch of one off variation of the baby Hicubes. And certainly Athearn Genesis has been coming out with box cars that match prototypes too RR specific, Genesis diesels, same. Wheels of time for sure. I'm sure the Athearn RTR, Atlas, Intermountain (not really a niche company, IMO), Walthers master products far outsells the Tangent, Exactrail, and who ever else you mentioned ( thats not even including their Roundhouse, Trainman, and Trainline product lines.) Tangent, ExactRail, Athearn Genesis and Moloco are selling well and gaining a fan base. Sure, they are not cheap but but people are sitting up and noticing and more and more modelers are going for fewer - more accurate models rather than a bigger fleet of generics. You cant really assume there was a lack of demand for Athearn BB and MDC since the decision to eliminate the kits was made by the same company that also offers premium product, so who knows what really went into that decision. Now it seems like you are trying to wind me up with the above comments. Common sense tells us, yes you can assume it - it was a business decision because the blue box stuff wasn't selling. Companies don't stop selling something if it's making them a nice profit. Now look, it's ok to admit your wrong so - it won't hurt as much as you think. Independent companies like Accurail and Branchline (okay, just recently acquired by Atlas) are still producing kits, and Scaletrains just entered the market with a few offerings. So their must be a demand for generic kits (that Athearn says wasn't there) Yes, of course, there is a demand but it is a limited demand. The amount of kits being made today is just enough to service that demand in balance with the glut of kits that still remain on the secondary market.
I edited my post prior to your response.
I think you're combining the concepts of finer detail, greater fidelity, and kits when they are each separate, IMO.
I'm simply saying there have always been modelers who were satisfied with generic, and those wanting specific. Back in the day, those wanting specific accomplished this by modifying the popular existing products or building what they wanted from a pile of sticks. Today, this market can go to Genesis, Tangent, etc. The prototype specific group has always been a subset of the larger model train market.
As an example, take the Athearn Ortner 5 bay Rapid discharge hopper. Its current form originated as an MDC product and had thick grabs, stirrups, and end detail. Athearn in their RTR push, redid the details to where they are thin wire and look much better.
Its painted for many roadnames. Its also painted for Southern RR. As you may be aware, Southern's Ortner hoppers were built specifically with 4 bays instead of 5. So the new Athearn hopper that's a 5 bay painted in Southern is "wrong"....but it is dimensionally accurate for a 5 bay AND it has fine details.
The market is demanding finer details. But not too many are demanding that a producer specifically tool a 4 bay hopper just for the Southern paint scheme after they tooled a generic 5 bay Ortner that applied to most railroads, (nor are they complaining that Athearn painted one for Southern). Only a few would demand that, and would pay the price for one of the niche producers to make it. So while that type of specific product has enough demand to keep those manufacturers happy, the larger model train market is happy with finely detailed generic models. And that 5 bay model in the Southern paint scheme has always been a quick seller.
None of that has to do with kits.
The reason kits are less popular is because the finer details the market demands these days are a pain to apply.