In the thread about first layouts, a poster talked about getting an N scale trainset in 1965. The way he spoke of it made it sound like it was relatively new. I got into HO in the early 1960s and of course it wasn't new then but it was new to me. I've always thought of it as a small scale because my previous experiences had been with Lionel and American Flyer. I first became aware of N scale in the early 1970s and back then it was usually erroneously referred to as N gauge. Was 1965 near the birth of N scale or was it around earlier than that?
Wikipedia knows it all!
"Although trains and accessories of similar gauge and/or scale existed as early as 1927, modern commercially produced N scale models were first launched by the Arnold company of Nuremberg in 1962. Unlike other scales and gauges, which were de facto standards at best, within two years N scale manufacturers defined the gauge and voltage, as well as the height and type of couplers. For example, Arnold developed the now ubiquitous "Rapido" coupler to provide a simple and robust releasable coupler design. Although the original Arnold coupler has been joined by more functional and aesthetically pleasing designs, Arnold allowed use of the Rapido design by other manufacturers, so established a common standard to couple together rolling stock from different sources."
I remember a bit of OOO showing up before N. Saw it in hobby shops and/or magazines. When N came along, I kinda wondered why. Seemed to be the same thing. Didn't really matter to me, 'cause I was well-stuck on HO.
Ed
N scale has been around my entire life. My dad had N scale trains in the late 1960's when I was very young. Sometimes he would set up a loop on his N scale track inside my plywood HO garage layout and we would run trains together.
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-Kevin
Living the dream.
the February 1964 Model Railroader had an article on OOO scale. Arnold Rapido used a ratio of 1:160 for their OOO models. This 1:160 ratio became N scale. Two other manufacturers of OOO equipment were using 1:152 ratio which never took off.
Ray
One link from a Google search.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_scale
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998 One link from a Google search. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_scale Rich
I got out the calculator and it tells me that the N gauge of 9mm or .354 inches when multiplied by 160 is 56.64 inches. If I recall correctly standard gauge track in the 1:1 world is 56.50 inches (4 feet, 8 1/2 inches). So it seems in 160 scale, the N gauge is very close to being accurate while in 148 scale it is a bit too narrow.
NYBW-John richg1998 One link from a Google search. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_scale Rich I got out the calculator and it tells me that the N gauge of 9mm or .354 inches when multiplied by 160 is 56.64 inches. If I recall correctly standard gauge track in the 1:1 world is 56.50 inches (4 feet, 8 1/2 inches). So it seems in 160 scale, the N gauge is very close to being accurate while in 148 scale it is a bit too narrow.
A "bit" is way too generous. 1/48 (O scale) has a track gage a sixteenth inch too big. That's looking huge, to me. Back when it was just toy trains, it really didn't matter. But as scale modeling took off, it did. Still, O scale is thriving nicely, I think. So they're "made their peace".
Nice to see that N is so tight, though.
I ran the numbers for HO: Official gage is 16.5 mm. True gage should be 16.48mm. That's pretty darn close, too. It's off by a bit under a thousandth of an inch.
Not sure you can believe everything on Wikipedia. I wouldn't say that N scale is from 1:148 to 1:160. For example they list the Lonestar OOO as being 1:160. I'd trust the February 1964 MR that says Lonestar was 1:52.
This debate is similar to the G gauge debate where you have one "gauge" being used for multiple "scales." The NMRA standards for N scale use the 1:160 proportion. That's good enough for me.
N scale progressed quite rapidly. By 1968 when I bought my first N scale Atlas, Bachmann and ConCor were all offering products.
According to my somewhat faulty memory:
Rapido cars and locos of the period had wierd dimensions and although better looking than the Lone Star were quite toylike.
The Atlas E8 was a nice looking scale locomotive although only one truck was powered and it could benefit from replacing some cast on detail (the horns in particilar) with detail parts which were not available until years latter.
Some of the Atlas freight cars are still avaivable in their Trainman Line although with improved lettering and MicroTrains compatable couplers.
Both Bachmann and ConCor cars had good shells. The ConCor had fuzzier lettering than the Atlas and Bachmann which were actually pretty good.
Within a few Atlas had a scale GP9 and a scale F7or F9, both nice looking but not up to todays standards. The F9 had a round depression in center of one of the fans probably from a pin used to push it out of the mold. The coupler rear coupler on the F stuck out way too far.
Probably a little latter Minitrix offered F7 units but they were oversize ConCor F3's of the same period were probably made by Minitrix and were also oversize.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Colorado RayNot sure you can believe everything on Wikipedia. I wouldn't say that N scale is from 1:148 to 1:160. For example they list the Lonestar OOO as being 1:160. I'd trust the February 1964 MR that says Lonestar was 1:52.
Regular N scale in continental Europe and the US/canada is 1/160 scale. British N scale is 1/144 scale and Japanese N scale is 1/150 scale.
Early N scale models from Arnold and Minitrix were actually quite crude, mostly oversized and bad runners. That changed dramatically, when Fleischmann entered into the N scale market. While Minitrix quickly adopted finer standards, Arnold lagged behind, which finally led to Arnold going belly-up. Arnold is now a brand of the British Hornby Group.
DSchmittProbably a little latter Minitrix offered F7 units but they were oversize ConCor F3's of the same period were probably made by Minitrix and were also oversize.
Minitrix did smack a home run with its FM H12-44 switcher which for the time was a superior switcher and a smooth runner which IMHO was unmatched until Atlas/Kato teamed up and produced the RS-3 that raised the bar and set a new standard.
Another engine that wasn't to bad in the running department and was a good switcher was the AHM RSD-15. I liked them so much I bought 5 of them. Oddly all of them was high hoods and was used as RSD-7s.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
LION remembers TT scale, then all of a sudden N scale appeared out of left field and TT scale disappeared behind the Iron Curtain. The Fleishmann brand disappered around the same time too. Actually, it was always there, but seemed to have left the NA market with only European designs. I had three locmotives of theirs back in the 60s.
Those of you where were not awake in the 60s would not remember this.
The future is coming..... at 60 minutes per hour.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLionThe Fleishmann brand disappered around the same time too.
What makes you think that?
Fleischmann is stll around, both in HO scale and N scale, but, as before, with little to none models for the US market.
TT is going stronger year by year in Europe.
I am sure what LION means is that Fleischmann retreated from hobby shops (and from advertising in MR) about that time, as they stopped offering what [they called] American prototype models. There was usually something a bit "off" about their US prototype trains, whether it was the size of the wheels (not to mention the flanges) or the shape of the cabs on their steamers. The stake pockets on their otherwise-plausible HO scale flatcar, for example, were round.
But their back page advertisement in MR featuring stripper and celebrity Blaze Starr makes them fondly remembered by those of us of a certain age. Her curves were more generous than Fleischmann's sectional track.
Dave Nelson
I believe there were some letters written to the editor disapproving of using Ms. Starr to "promote" trains. I, for one, was not in that group of writers.
I was, it is true, 16 years old; and hadn't gained the maturity and experience that might reveal the danger in the ad.
I might get there someday.
BRAKIE DSchmitt Probably a little latter Minitrix offered F7 units but they were oversize ConCor F3's of the same period were probably made by Minitrix and were also oversize. Minitrix did smack a home run with its FM H12-44 switcher which for the time was a superior switcher and a smooth runner which IMHO was unmatched until Atlas/Kato teamed up and produced the RS-3 that raised the bar and set a new standard. Another engine that wasn't to bad in the running department and was a good switcher was the AHM RSD-15. I liked them so much I bought 5 of them. Oddly all of them was high hoods and was used as RSD-7s.
DSchmitt Probably a little latter Minitrix offered F7 units but they were oversize ConCor F3's of the same period were probably made by Minitrix and were also oversize.
True but those came latter.
WHen N scale first came out, there were suddenly a lot of companies in the train market, or back in it, rebranding one of the several manufacturers. We had an Aurora Postage Stamp set (rebadged Minitrix) with the very obvious European Lil DOnkey engine, but the cars and caboose were distinctly NA prototypes. For a while we had a 4x4 HO layout and a small N scale layout that partially overhung it on one end, forming a tunnel for the HO, but the N scale got put away in favore of expanding the HO after I burned out too many switch motors - the N scale ones were not as robust as the HO ones, plus the lever-type controls were easy to get stuck. ANd I didn't know about CD power supplies when I was 4 or 5.
I take it that was a typo - Lonestar had to be 1:152, as 1:52 would make it nearly O scale size (1:48).
There is a 2mm fine scale group that builds to fine scale standards like Proto:87 or the 4mm Society, or Proto:48. Code 40 hand laid speciality slips, anyone? And less than code 40 for sidings? That stuff is more or less an oval wire (the less than code 40 - the code 40 does indeed have a proper profile), because you need strong magnification to see if it has a proper rail profile or not.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker I take it that was a typo - Lonestar had to be 1:152, as 1:52 would make it nearly O scale size (1:48). --Randy
Yes, typo. As in my first post on the subject, the February 1964 MR article listed Lonestar at 1:152.
Revell was the original importer of Arnold/Rapido in the late 60s
A fair amount of time (January 1970, so 8 years I guess) after the introduction, but in my memory* I recall Popular Mechanics ran a 2 part series on building an N-scale layout - hopefully this Google books link works: A lot of railroad in a little space. Back then (and well before) magazines like Pop Mech and Pop Science would feature stories on Model Railroading (or, OK, train sets - although some of the work they were doing in the 1920s would impress contemporary modellers - and boy did they know their radio-electronics then). Nowadays, the few times I read a recent Pop Science it was meh...Don't know about Blaze Starr and N scale advertising (well, OK, I've read about it), but in the late 1970s wasn't there some suggestive ads from, IIRC, Patti's Corner or something like that?
*OK, my memory's not that good - I didn't recall the issue when it was first published (as I was 5 or so). It was stored in the basement the early 1990s when Dad was convinced we had to toss the old magazines (which were getting a bit mildewed, and we suspected crickets were living among the boxes), so in cleaning up looking for cool articles to clip...well that's where I saw the layout feature. Luckily many of the old (and cool) issues are available via Google Books.
BRAKIEAnother engine that wasn't to bad in the running department and was a good switcher was the AHM RSD-15.
That is the truth.
I had maybe a dozen or so N scale locomotives on the original STRATTON & GILLETTE I built in the 1980's. The RSD-15 and ConCor PA-1 were used 90% of the time. Both of these ran great. The RSD-15 was noisy, but it was not objectionable.
chutton01Don't know about Blaze Starr and N scale advertising (well, OK, I've read about it), but in the late 1970s wasn't there some suggestive ads from, IIRC, Patti's Corner or something like that?
It was Patti's Corner that brought the most objections. She was out tool lady.
Here is an article about Fleischmann US rep Charles Merzbach and the Blaze Star model train ads.
http://www.guidetozscale.com/html/charles_merzbach.html