I found a thread once on super detailng a Bachmann 4-4-0, that abruptly ended some years ago. I wrote the author, he assured me he was going to get back to it, but never has.Doctorwayne on here has some great superdetailng stuff. I would like to get into doing some super detailing, but I honestly am unsure where to start. I have some guides to "parts of a steam locomotive". Im guessing what I need to do is pic an individual prototype that is close to an available model then get parts from precision scale or cal scale. I don't seem to have an eye for the details that others pic out as missing from a model, and the precision scale drawings leave me bewildered as to what the parts actually look like. Do people have projects they'd like to share, expiereinces the learned from, and ideas? Does this kind of thing hold appeal to many of you? if so, it might be fun to do a group project, where we all grab a cheaper loco and detail it together.
There are a couple of members in here that scratch build steam locos. Hopefully they will find your thread, and join in with you.
I only have 1 steam loco, but I try to super detail diesels. Ususally, weather it's diesel or steam, you pick a prototype, get a model thats close, and go from there, detailing your project to look like the real thing.
I haunt Ebay alot, and I'm a member of other forums, and there are lots of parts out there, and sometimes, you'll need to make your own.
One member on here is scratch building a steam loco with brass, and I think there are two other members on here, that work in metal and plastic.
Super detailing any model can give you great satisfaction.
Hopefully, one of these members will find your thread.
Mike.
My You Tube
I've done a little bit of steam engine detailing--say, to a greater or lesser amount, about 6.
Two points, and neither really comes first--you should go back and forth.
One is to educate yourself on how steam engines work. You will "get" things much quicker and easier if you do. There are an assortment of books on the subject. My all-time favorite is Alfred Bruce's "The Steam Locomotive in America". When I got my copy, about half a century ago, I read it through like a novel. I should probably do that again.
The other is not to start with an enormous complex project. Like scratchbuilding a Big Boy. My first detailing project was a cast metal 0-6-0T. The company catalog had some photos of examples that people had done. I kind of picked out elements, and thought of a couple of things on my own, and dove in. Some years later, I took all the stuff off and did it over. For example, I had put the stack on crooked. Yuk! And I had neglected to run pipes to my air compressor. The ones in the pictures didn't have any, and I didn't know much. Anyway, it was a nice simple little guy. Clearly, I am suggesting you do the same. Gather some inspirational pictures. Learn what you can. Don't do too much too fast--maybe change a headlight and add a generator. Start with an engine that runs nicely, so you'll be happy with the overall results, later.
You will be buying tools. Be warned. It's fun.
If you have questions for a forum, try to be as specific as you can. Like the guy who recently asked what was that tube-shaped thing in front of the smoke stack. But, if you read Bruce, you will already know the answer to that question.
Ed
savgbstDoes this kind of thing hold appeal to many of you?
Yep, sure does.
If you can get a copy of the August, 2009 MR there is an article in it about detailing the Bachmann 4-4-0. I have a pair of their B&O EM-1s that I have been gathering additional details for an "upgrade" project in the works.
I looked at the thread, I presume it is the same one, at Railroad Line Forums.
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26105&whichpage=1
That fellow sure wanted to have a detailed cab, to say the least.
If you get that M-R article it has a "shopping list" for the detail parts. I agree that the thirty-year old line drawings in some of the brass detail parts catalogs leave much to be desired when trying to figure out which parts to get.
Like Ed in the previous post, I'm an ardent fan of having a decent library. One additional book I would suggest, that can be found in the used market at pretty reasonable prices, is the Kalmbach Model Railroader Cyclopedia of Steam Locomotives, Vol. I by Linn H. Wescott.
{edit} There's presently one on ebay for $10 + $3 among other sources.
That book is a pretty good primer on the various locomotive appliances and it is a big help to know what pipe goes where and what that "odd-looking" thingy is hanging from the boiler.
Not long ago I found an HO 1961-era brass New York Central Mikado. It was a good, solid engine but the detailing of that era was somewhat crude by today's standards. I had a great deal of satisfaction in both the research of this class of locomotive, and it's distinctive outside dry-pipe and applying that research to the model. Fortunately there was quite a bit of documentation available for these engines— and believe me, it seems that no two were alike as far as the type and location of the various appliances used on these engines.
Good Luck, Ed
A little more blather about my start in steam loco detailing:
Back in the (really olden days), model railroad companies would send you catalogs. Usually for money. So I saved my allowance and bought a whole lot of them. Among others was the PFM catalog. On the following is a picture of my first steam locomotive:
http://hoseeker.net/pacificfastmailinformation/pfmcatalog4thed1958pg02.jpg
Below the top photo is a couple of photos of modified models. You will note that in a photo caption is mention of Kemtron. They were, at the time, the go-to place for detail castings.
So I looked at the photos and went through the Kemtron catalog (which had pictures) and made a shopping list. I walked over to Clark Keene's shop in DC. Back in those days, it was pretty easy to keep stock up, 'cause there wasn't much. Anyway, Clark had one of the 0-6-0T's in stock, plus a selection of Kemtron parts. Some of which I bought. You will note that I had the modifications in mind before I bought the locomotive. So, even then, I kind of liked to have "improved" models.
At home, I played. With parts. And saws. And files. And Goo, which is how I was able to stick the parts on. As I said, it wasn't the best job of assembly. But it still was my very own little tank loco. I even painted it black. Decals were still beyond me. So it's never gotten any. Even after it's massive rebuild.
And, speaking of getting a loco that runs well: This sweet little guy only picked up on the #2 and #3 driver on the left. Which meant it stalled a lot. Until I put a wiper on the #1 driver. I also added a bunch of lead inside. And a working headlight.
End of blather.
But it's a pretty good example of a simple start to detailing.
Which gets me to thinkin'. That little loco was freelance. Illustrating a choice. You can either choose to do your detailing to have your model much closer to a particular prototype. Or you can roll your own. Steam engines came in so much variety, that finding two the same was kind of unusual. Especially the "little" ones--the ones on small or logging railroads. So, while modifying your Athearn Big Boy to a freelance version might well generate snickering from others, no one can really quibble with what you did to that swell old brass 2-8-0.
Yes.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/261371.aspx
Edit: still cant get .aspx to hyperlink properly (in the editor it shows up as a hyperlink...)
Ed has provided two great fundamental observations on this subject. That being said, I suspect that steam super-detailers are slowly, but steadily, decreasing as an MRR demographic. And if that is indeed the case, we will be affected in our interests and passions by increasing shortages of both resources and materials. It's the materials that will pass from the scene before the resources found in experienced modelers. That means that three things become more and more important: creativity, skill and networking.
One of my first postings to these forums was an appeal for information on the availability of Cal Scale's 190-2021, their great superdetailing kit for Model Die Cast's Harriman locos. I still have an old MDC 2-6-2 Prairie that is awaiting the "treatment". I couldn't find any available generally, but finally tracked down what may have been one of the last in stock at Toy Train Heaven, the Bowser on-line outlet. But that was six years ago, though I'm sure there's more out there somewhere. If I recall, the associated notes and drawings for the kit show the goodies being designed for and applied to a 4-4-0. How 'bout that, buddy! If I'm left with any wits later today I'll see if I can find and send those notes. (Hey, anyone, would that infringe on copyrights, etc. on this forum?
A week ago I printed off a copy of Precision Scale's steam loco detail parts catalogue. Though it's a hefty download, there's all kinds of stuff in there, not just in terms of individual parts, but superdetailing kits as well. Maybe even for 4-4-0s. There's also a bunch of in-cab and boiler backplate items, many with line drawings of where they're to be installed. I can't say how many or which of their items are currently unstocked or discontinued, but I think they sell direct as well as through distributors. And most of their stuff will be brass, arguably a bit less subject to deformation in handing than pewter or white metal, as the Cal Scale kit is. There are still a fistfull of other suppliers for parts out there, as well.
In locating the items you need you may have to resort to eBay. But that's geared to listings of what's being offered up and does not reflect what's really out there in other modelers' personal stashes that they might be willing to part with - likely at more reasonable prices. I've just been introduced to HOswap, a Yahoo group where you can alert all members of what you want to buy. I can post a link or two if you're interested - and I can find them to copy.
As others have already said in so many words, you have already departed, friend, on an adventure. I might add that you will be unable to keep others from noticing!
John
A famous series of articles in 1961-62 Model Railroader by Robert Darwin on the Art of Superdetailing steam locomotives still sets a standard for thoroughness. He starts with the tools you'll want and need and then moves on to particular areas of emphasis. His particular project was a UP articulated but the lessons are broader than that.
Then and now, really getting serious about superdetailing calls for a commitment of time and money, and something about the way Darwin phrased his article generated a strange and vehement amount of angry mail to MR at the time, mostly relating to the fact that it was evident Darwin had money. Years later he wrote articles about tools and workshop design and the angry letters started up again. It was strange.
But it is fair to be warned that really good quality detail parts for steam locomotives are NOT cheap items -- you will be spending some money. The old Selley line of cheaper detail parts is not found at many shops and not many would regard the Selley parts as adequate these days.
Dave Nelson
I recall that what got Bob in trouble was saying in his thumbnail autobiography (that went with the article) that he had the biggest damn sound system in Malibu. Or something like that. Now, for some of us, the reaction is: "How nice for you.". But others just feel that's lacking in adequate humility. I was in the former camp, and enjoyed Darwin's work immensely.
He did his work on a Tenshodo Big Boy. Back then, folks were asking: "What can you do to something like that? It's the best." Well, Bob did some pretty fantastic things. The one I remember was he put some incline roller bearings above the pilot truck that worked like the real one. That alone was pretty fantastic.
Dave, do you have the months for these issues?
Welcome to the MR Forums, savgbst, and thanks for your kind words.As others have mentioned, it helps to know the function of many of the add-on details available, so you'll need some reference books. A good one is Kalmbach's Model Railroader Cyclopedia - Vol. I - Steam Locomotives. I'm not sure if it's still in print, but you should be able to find used copies at any decent train show. Another useful one is the 1925 Locomotive Cyclopedia, a re-print of the original by Simmons-Boardman. Again, it may or may not still be in print, but train shows often come through with pre-owned copies. Of the two, I think the former is more useful, especially for those just starting out in superdetailing, as it explains things with photos and drawings along with descriptions in layman's terms.Precision Scale has a number of catalogues available, and, if I'm not mistaken, they're available on-line.Bowser owns Cal-Scale, and their in-stock supply of detail parts is far greater than Cal-Scale's old pamphlet-style yellow catalogues would ever have suggested. Many of these parts were originally custom-made for the production of brass locomotives. A visit to English's Model Railroad Supply, in Montoursville PA, will make any steam detailer feel like a kid in a candy shop - bring money and a well-developed sense of self-control.
If you're planning on creating a miniature version of a real locomotive, it helps to have photos of the real one - the more photos, the better. However, you should be aware that the appearance of most real locomotives could vary considerably over the years, and you may wish to narrow things down to a fairly specific time period. Again, train shows often feature dealers of such photos, and more can be found on-line.If you're free-lancing, you have more freedom to create, but try to keep prototype practices in mind so that your finished model will look believeable.
There's a lengthy, illustrated thread here on my attempts to create an HO scale version of a real locomotive.
There's another here, mostly on re-working Athearn Mikados into better performing locomotives, but there's some very basic re-working of the stock details which you may find useful.
You'll find a thread here, you'll find a thread on re-working a couple of Bachmann Ten Wheelers into more modern (freelanced) locomotives, and another here on upgrading two freelanced Moguls, one an older brass model and the other a plastic one from IHC.
Another free-lanced one, this one is currently on-going, and involves re-working a Bachmann USRA 2-6-6-2 for one of my own roads. I hope to have it done by mid-April, as there are only minor details yet to be added, then it's off to the paint shop.
There are several other such threads there by some accomplished modellers, and, like most threads there, very-well illustrated with lots of photos.
Wayne
Hi there. In terms of how-to books, I would recommend "steam locomotives projects and ideas" edited by the late John Pryke. Many techniques are covered in that source. I also think that starting with simple projects on low cost, used locos is preferable. Some Mehanos can still be found cheap and offer a great base to work on. Take your time and enjoy!
Simon
BMMECYNC:
There's the link you wanted.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
savbgst:
Welcome to the forums!!!
Obviously you have been doing some reading in the forums but I will say congratulations on your first post.
I'm no expert on detailing so I will decline to offer any advice, but please do share your progress with us.
Cheers!!
savgbst - I have the 4 pages of Cal Scale/Bowser drawings for installing their old superdetail kit. But I note that the MDC Harriman loco kits it was specifically designed for was their 4-4-2 Atlantic. I think it also applies to the 2-6-2 Prairie only because the boiler body is identical. If you're interested in this kit or the drawings, I will put them up as JPG files and post them here - if'n I can larn how ta jump thru the tecno-hoops.
As for the HOswap group on Yahoo, you can access their basic site at https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/HOswap/info . About 2/3 of the way down the page there's 4 addresses for postings and requests, etc.
https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/HOswap/info
Here is a clickable link to HOswap, but this only goes to the home page. You will have to look for the subscription page.
This started out as a plastic Bachmann 0-6-0. I fabricated the cooling loops under the walkway from brass wire and shim brass, added the engineer, and made handrails from wire. I could have done more, replaced all the cast on piping with wire, but I didn't. Paint is dark gray auto primer from a rattle can.
This started out as a diecast Mantua Pacific. The original "front end" (pilot, pilot deck, deck mounted air compressors walkway steps) was a single crude plastic molding. I made a new front deck from brass bar stock, soldered on a Cal Scale pilot, dual air compressors, and a crud shield for the compressors. I recycled the original plastic walkway ladders 'cause I could not find replacements that gave any promise of fitting. The bell, whistle and generator are Cal-scale. The original open frame motor was gave decent low speed performance, but a can motor converstion kit from Mantua improved that noticiably. I should have done something to make the bright stainless steel boiler hand rails dark. Paint is the same dark gray autoprimer as on the 0-6-0. Ordinary super glue bonds the brass detail parts to either plastic or diecast boilers.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
dstarr This started out as a plastic Bachmann 0-6-0. I fabricated the cooling loops under the walkway from brass wire and shim brass, added the engineer, and made handrails from wire. I could have done more, replaced all the cast on piping with wire, but I didn't. Paint is dark gray auto primer from a rattle can.
I like how yours came out, I will have to give those cooling lines and handrails a shot.
I went with 446 and added styrene to raise the coal bunker height. Still needs a back up light, some better quality weathering, and some better details (air lines, new bell, saftey valves, whistle, generator). I modified the front pilot deck with sheet styrene (If I had to do it over, I would use brass), and installed a working knuckle coupler (it ended up being a bit low, but it works okay). I used craft paints and aged concrete or dirt (Polyscale) for the low areas on the drivers.
Here is a Bachmann 2-10-2 that I have been working on. I added a Elesco feedwater heater, and a train control box. I will be moving the airpumps to the pilot and moving the feedwater pump to a more realistic location (its kindof hanging off the side of the locomotive walkway at this point.
Here is my mogul, not quite a Overland or PFM.
Attuvian Dave, do you have the months for these issues? John
The Bob Darwin Art of Superdetailing [Steam Locomotives] series in MR:
Part 1 November 1961 -- the tools you'd need.
Part 2 December 1961 -- metalwork and how to attach things to boilers. Examples are a die cast MDC 0-6-0 and a brass UP Northern
Part 3 February 1962 - design of good running gear. Here is where he really starts to focus on the Tenshodo/Pacific Fast Mail Big Boy.
Part 4 March 1962. Now the superdetailing per se of the Big Boy superstructure is shown, with focus on the right side. He also addresses the Bowser die cast UP 4-6-6-4 Challenger and Big Boys from other importers of the 1950s and 60s.
Part 5, April 1962. Completing Big Boy's details. Left side and tender. This is also the issue with the complaining letter about Darwin's reference to his "biggest damn hi-fi." (Darwin worked in Hollywood).
His article about his "Dream Workshop" (2200 sq. feet) in the January 1987 MR generated the now-predictable angry letter in March (and another in May). March also saw publication of his "Tools For the Master Craftsman." Certainly an expanded list of tools compared to his Nov. 1961 article.
This is my ONE piece of brass, a PFM B15 Mogul. A guy on the old Rec.Models.Railroad newsgroup gave it to me, free, years ago. It needed a lot of resoldering to get it back together, and a neodynium supermaget to get the old open frame motor to run without over heating. I didn't add any details, fearing that anything I could do wouldn't look good enough on real brass. It runs pretty good, and looks fine pulling open platform coaches on my B&M layout.
I have a couple of IHC moguls which I ought to detail and paint up as B-15's. They run good, and are about the right size.
dstarrThis is my ONE piece of brass, a PFM B15 Mogul....
Nice to see one done-up in its prototype paint and lettering. The same B&M B-15 was my first brass locomotive, too, but mine wouldn't run at all. I put a small can motor in her (mounted in the boiler rather than on the frame, as it wouldn't fit through the narrow width of the firebox).I changed the headlight on mine, removed the train control box and replaced the airpumps with a cross compound one. I also added brass sunshades to hide the arched window-tops, then painted it for my freelance road...
A couple of years ago, I re-worked it again, changing the Franklin Economy steam chests to better ressemble a standard piston valve set-up:
...and also added some piping and a new cab...
The tender got a bit of modification, too...
It normally runs with this one, an IHC Mogul based on, I think, an Espee prototype. This shows the modifications done shortly after I got it, mostly a new headlight and number boards, along with the tender, which was shortened, then converted to a coal-type, with an open bunker...
It got another makeover at the same time as the 34, mostly a new cab and some additional piping...
The new air tanks are brass tubing, filled with lead to give this little locomotive a little weight to improve her pulling abilities. The tender also got an upgrade to make it more like the one behind the 34:
And here's the pair of them, back in service...
The old adage "leave well enough alone" simply does not apply to Dr. Wayne. I lack this sort of creative mind even to imagine his kind of work, much less the skills to pull it off [and photograph it well].
Regarding Dr. Wayne, there are not a few that have imagined themselves as his apprentices.
Oh, yes, realism in creating a scale model railroad is what I love the most about the hobby. And steam reigns supreme since I model the EJ&E in HO in the '20s. Ever since my wife-to-be and I rode behind NKP 759 on a Shenandoah Valley excursion in '68 I've been hooked on steam power and have dug into all the fascinating workings of the machine. To top it off I splurged on the FANTASTIC experience of operating (yes....hands on the throttle, "Johnson" bar, brake, whistle) Nevada Northern's 2-8-0 a few years ago.
I've detailed a zamac Tyco 0-6-0 kit using Cal-Scale and homebrew parts with a pretty good result, I think. Of course, painting, and more importantly weathering, really give you the texture and feel of the "real thing". Suggest you look at close-up photos and read descriptions of what the various components and appliances do. A shop tour is informative, too....I've seen the Strasburg Railroad's (their staff is very friendly and knowledgeable)....maybe Scranton, PA's also has tours. It gives you an appreciation and understanding of the mechanical genius of the steam locomotive. I've used Model Railroader's "Cyclopedia-Vol. 1-The Steam Locomotive", Alfred Bruce's "The Steam Locomotive in America" and various other textbooks to gain knowledge of the machine. Yeah, as you can see I love two scales: 1/87 and 12 inches-to-the-foot!
stayboltmaybe Scranton, PA's also has tours
They do in fact have tours. Check website for days and special instructions.