When I run trains at my club open houses, I'll use a steamer with smoke as the visitors always enjoy it, but otherwise, I'm not a fan. I'd be quite content if the HO-manufacturers would no longer install smoke units, and replace the space with additional weight.
I've seen actual steam locomotives running.
I've never seen a model "smoke unit" even be CLOSE. Besides all the other stuff, they LOOK BAD.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Bayfield Transfer Railway I've seen actual steam locomotives running. I've never seen a model "smoke unit" even be CLOSE. Besides all the other stuff, they LOOK BAD.
That´s a statement I would not want to confirm in general. I agree, that even with a dynamic smoke unit installed, the smoke is not "thick" enough in HO scale models to give you the impression of a hard working steamer.
However, today´s smoke units in large scale models live up to my expectations, but
... smoke fluids are hazardous materials, even in the small quantities used in model railroading. The smoke should not be inhaled at all, as it causes lung problems and is a carcinogenic substance. If you check the data sheet of that stuff, there are a dozen warnings listed.
The same stuff is used to test smoke detection equipment. The people performing these tests are required to wear protective gear.
Unless the industry comes up with something proven to be harmless, my steam locos quit smoking, just like I did!
I differentiate between my 1940s American Flyer trains and my current HO scale layout.
Back in the 1950s, I spent untold hours in my parents basement running an American Flyer steam engine that I still own and occasionally run. Gone are the little red capsules with the liquid smoke refills, but I now have a couple of bottles of liquid smoke. For my American Flyer, smoke is essential, a must have. To paraphrase, I love the smell of liquid smoke fluid in the morning.
When I resurrected my American Flyers trains out of storage after a 45-year hiatus back in 2010, I had to repair and replace the smoke unit. I love to occasionally go down to the basement and run that sucker with smoke puffing out of the top of that steamer. The more, the better.
On my HO layout, I have a couple of steam engines from BLI with smoke. For laughs, I ran one with the smoke unit turned on for laughs and then turned it off never to run with smoke again. It simply is not the same thing as the American Flyers of my youth. In HO scale, I consider it a gimmick.
Rich
Alton Junction
I'm in the, smoke represented fond memories of running trains as a kid camp, and though the smoke units in the BLI models are a vast improvement over those in say Bachmann train set steam engines, they're to me more gimmicky then prototypical. Another complaint I have with smoke units is the awful smell when the smoke fluids burns off. It's definitely not the same as what's listed on the bottle!
The larger scale smoke units especially in 1-Gauge models, such as the German KM1 Modelbau pieces seen in the videos Ulrich posted, look much more impressive smoke output wise, though, the other problems, air pollution, smell, residue, would still be an issue.
-Alvie
richhotrainBack in the 1950s, I spent untold hours in my parents basement running an American Flyer steam engine that I still own and occasionally run. Gone are the little red capsules with the liquid smoke refills, but I now have a couple of bottles of liquid smoke. For my American Flyer, smoke is essential, a must have. To paraphrase, I love the smell of liquid smoke fluid in the morning.
Rich,
As You probably remember, I had the same 4-6-2 You had, just a little earlier and I agree..it was a pretty good smoker..LOL the smell was not all that bad either...those little red bladder capsules, didn't last too long though, I could only guess how many of those I went through. There used to be a Gilbert store on 26th & Halsted where You could get them. Real spruce pine tree smell and American Flyer smoke smell, at Christmas time.....Love It....LOL
Take Care!
Frank
My three strongest pullers are steam engines with a smoke unit. I don't always run with smoke, and I like to keep the volume low or off, but sometimes it's great fun to crank the volume up to 11, turn the smoke on, and watch them puff.
I haven't encountered issues with smoke leaving a film on the track or leaking everywhere since I was a kid and "the smoking engine" was an 80's era Bachmann USRA 0-6-0.
zstripe richhotrain Back in the 1950s, I spent untold hours in my parents basement running an American Flyer steam engine that I still own and occasionally run. Gone are the little red capsules with the liquid smoke refills, but I now have a couple of bottles of liquid smoke. For my American Flyer, smoke is essential, a must have. To paraphrase, I love the smell of liquid smoke fluid in the morning. Rich, As You probably remember, I had the same 4-6-2 You had, just a little earlier and I agree..it was a pretty good smoker..LOL the smell was not all that bad either...those little red bladder capsules, didn't last too long though, I could only guess how many of those I went through. There used to be a Gilbert store on 26th & Halsted where You could get them. Real spruce pine tree smell and American Flyer smoke smell, at Christmas time.....Love It....LOL Take Care! Frank
richhotrain Back in the 1950s, I spent untold hours in my parents basement running an American Flyer steam engine that I still own and occasionally run. Gone are the little red capsules with the liquid smoke refills, but I now have a couple of bottles of liquid smoke. For my American Flyer, smoke is essential, a must have. To paraphrase, I love the smell of liquid smoke fluid in the morning.
Haven't turned a driver on my Under construction layout yet. Do have some steam with smoke units on board. These will be removed before that first drive wheel turns. Have no sound equipped units either, if I did the sound units would be right behind the smokers. Would miss the whistle though. Do have a 5 chime one I can hook up to a compressor though. Hmm, I'll look into that possibility.
God's Best & Happy Rails to You!
Bing (RIPRR The Route of the Buzzards)
The future: Dead Rail Society
For shows and movie making, smoke is great for the kids.
That said it's hard getting any decent amount of smoke out of a HO scale. And it does make a mess. (Those Scale 1 locos look great though!) For those of you who want smoke, I picked up some uber cheap ultrasonic misters and enclosed them in a rubber box to isolate the sound. They make awesome factory smoke as it's just water that evaporates and blows upward with a small low powered fan at the base.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Just for the record ~ I am a non-smoker
I don't have a problem the smoke HO steam locos produce except that they should be able to produce MORE smoke!
I haven't had any of the so-called oily residue issues mentioned.
Maybe it's partly because the new HVAC that was installed a few years ago has a whole house electronic air purifier with the HVAC fan running all the time. The smoke in the train room is pulled into the hall and immediately into a cold air return and the first thing it hits is the air purifier (Aprilaire 5000). Quite frankly, IMHO there's just enough air flow to "pull" at the smoke much like you might see as a gently breeze blowing the smoke on a real steamer. (also just for the record, I was on a steam excursion last summer from Chicago to Janesville & back with NPR 765 riding the long dome car - just sayin' - it's not like I don't know what the real thing looks like).
I don't really understand all the whining about the smoke "not looking real" or "spoils using one's imagination". LOL. If I were to start commenting about "not looking real" I'd have to start with caliber of modeling terrain, landscape, trackage & ballasting I see on most model railroads. As far as I'm concerned it also "doesn't look real" and is mostly substandard (by my standards).
If you don't like the smoke at least there's a switch to manually force it off permenently. I haven't seen that feature on poorly modeled trees, background scenes, ballast, etc other than making the whole room dark.
Arto Just for the record ~ I am a non-smoker I don't have a problem the smoke HO steam locos produce except that they should be able to produce MORE smoke! I haven't had any of the so-called oily residue issues mentioned. Maybe it's partly because the new HVAC that was installed a few years ago has a whole house electronic air purifier with the HVAC fan running all the time. The smoke in the train room is pulled into the hall and immediately into a cold air return and the first thing it hits is the air purifier (Aprilaire 5000). Quite frankly, IMHO there's just enough air flow to "pull" at the smoke much like you might see as a gently breeze blowing the smoke on a real steamer. (also just for the record, I was on a steam excursion last summer from Chicago to Janesville & back with NPR 765 riding the long dome car - just sayin' - it's not like I don't know what the real thing looks like). I don't really understand all the whining about the smoke "not looking real" or "spoils using one's imagination". LOL. If I were to start commenting about "not looking real" I'd have to start with caliber of modeling terrain, landscape, trackage & ballasting I see on most model railroads. As far as I'm concerned it also "doesn't look real" and is mostly substandard (by my standards). If you don't like the smoke at least there's a switch to manually force it off permenently. I haven't seen that feature on poorly modeled trees, background scenes, ballast, etc other than making the whole room dark.
Maybe you could bless us with a few photos of your work so we can know what we need to strive toward........or just give us the name of the publication your layout was featured in?
Of couse I don't have cheezy smoke, or tinny sound, or high tech DCC on my layout. When I get to the scenery on my latest layout rebuild, I will post a few pictures for your review.......
Now we just need the manufacturers to add a warning label to locos that smoke: "It has been determined that the smoke feature works best only with modern high tech, overly complex heating/cooling systems". So to get the best results from your $400 BLI loco, you need to run out and purchase a $20,000 HVAC system.......boy this hobby really is getting expensive.......
Would not work in my house during the winter months, we have hydronic heat......oil fired hot water, still the best.......no hot, dry air being blown about......
Sheldon
I can't stand the smell emitted by the smoke units. It makes me ill.
May I calmly suggest that we don't take anything anyone post as a personal attack pro or con. It's just opinions.So Smile Darn It! Modeling trains is a happy thing no matter how you do it!
Please confine discussion to the thread topic, not on the relative modeling skills of the thread participants, or this thread will disappear like a puff of smoke.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Smoke: Gimic or Must Have!
... Only You can decide that.
As for the LION, there is no smoking on the subway.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Non smoker (locos). Cab chatter doesn't add anything either. Only add on that really enhances locos are lights. Your mileage may vary. I agree with another poster, that if you want to add something worthwhile, put a keep alive in decoder.
I saw my first smoking engine last week at our local club. I was amazed about how short the smoking time was, it hardly went 40 feet without needing to stop and getting a refill. It was a N&W "A" and having seen the real thing charging through Virginia decades ago, it looked toyish to me and it was not something I would ever use, but to each their own.
I love the look of a properly steaming and smoking train but as I too have COPD I'll be adding mine by use of video trickery (or post-production expertise!)I've invested in a copy of Adobe After Effects, an amazing video post-editor. And I just took delivery of a custom built video computer; between these two, there goes 3 grand. In the meantime I've downloaded every video I can find on the protos of my engines so that I can see where and when the appropriate vapors exude from my rigs. As my experience mounts I will then sync the chuffs to the wheels with audio tracks of the engines in question. And don't worry, I'll be posting my successes right here.Just as soon as I figure out how to post video links...
In my opinion, smoke units, like the stock cars with animal sounds (from BLI) are nothing more than a silly gimmick designed to impress the low-information "model" railroader. Kind of the model railroad version of "Ooo, look at the shiny lights."
I mean, come on... $70 for an N scale cattle car that moo's? Seriously?
And as for smoke, has there ever been one that produces prototypical type billows? And if there were, would you really want it running in your basement?
I know I sound like Ed Crankshaft here, but I'm not even totally sold on engine sounds yet. (Though I am getting closer to it. :) )
Every time I get a smoke-equipped steamer, the very first thing I do is to look for the switch and ensure it is set to the 'off' position. Like water, the smoke doesn't seem to scale terribly well, is all white, and drifts like melting marshmallow down over the boiler when the vehicle is at rest.
It's not for me.
My vote is without. The units I have leave a oily residue around teh track which collects dust. In addition I just dont like teh smell.
As I mentioned before, this is how I add smoke & steam to my layout - by trickery...
http://vid1120.photobucket.com/albums/l490/bigpianoguy/New%20Smoke_zpsneu3gqgw.mp4
I'm a former scale modeler (HO) who now is mainly only interested in Flyer. I guess there are some who think that smoke has a place in the scale world, but I agree with you Big. I think it absolutly belongs in the tinplate world with Marx, Lionel and Flyer, but not so much in the scale world. I had several brass engines years ago that I painted and lettered for the Ma and Pa and almost modified for a smoke unit. Had the internet been around then, I know I would have done it. I almost canabalized an old Mantua General's smoke unit before I snapped back to reality. My thoughts are this: If you model in the scale world and you pay attention to all those minute details, unrealistic smoke has no room. However, one of the things that I most respect about this hobby and any other hobby, is the modeler's license that we all possess to do whatever we want. Its your little world.