Looking really good. Little nitpicks, many of which will seem fussy….On the wood, if you want the weathered look, it is better to stain it before you glue it down. I would make the boards as snug as you can, so we see almost no gap between them along their lengths. Definitely put boards between the rails.
The weathering in the pit is spot on but you do have a few hard edges where droplets dried. I would soften those by applying powder etc. Little point again as They most likely won’t show if you leave them as is…
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Hi Guy:
trainnut1250On the wood, if you want the weathered look, it is better to stain it before you glue it down.
You make some very good suggestions. I wish I had thought the process through a little better. The boards are CA'd in place so removing them will be messy but not impossible. I bought more than enough to do it over.
Could I have lessened the effect of the 'hard edges' on the concrete stains by adding a little soap to the mix? I used tap water and Polly Scale acrylic paint. Should I have used distilled water or alcohol to dilute the paint?
Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Now worries on the wood. You can still stain it in place. Just make sure that the wash you use isn’t too dark (alcohol and shoe dye/india ink mixture) Test on a scrap piece to see the results before applying to the deck.
As for the hard edges on the pit weathering: using Polly scale as weathering is a bit tricky because of this tendency. I usually will feather the paint a bit to break up those edges. It does have a tendency to bead up a bit and create the edge. This can also happen with alcohol/dye washes on plastic as well.
I’m not sure that you will see the edges when you get the bridge back in and your grass in place. If it is still noticeable, I would use some black or rust colored weathering powder and just soften the very edges of a few of the spots. You don’t have to eliminate the edges just blend them enough so that the eye can’t connect the circle and they don’t read as “water spots”.
The Paint thinner doesn’t seem to matter much in my experience as far as whether the edges develop. You didn’t say how you applied the weathering, but I find using an airbrush will make this tendency go away but there is also a very distinctive “airbrush look” that I try to avoid.
You can also minimize the hard edge tendency when using acrylics by creating a wet on wet approach where the edge feathers out smooth. Personally I use acrylics in an airbrush for weathering buildings, locos and train cars. I use lots of other methods (mostly powders) when I don’t want to hassle with the airbrush.
It will be great to see the final results on this when you get it all back together with the grass in the pit.
Guy
trainnut1250Now worries on the wood.
The wood is history. I was able to get it off with a wide X-acto chisel blade and some sand paper. There was maybe $4.00 in wood so its not a huge loss. Good lesson learned. I also thought about your suggestion of not leaving spaces between the wood strip which I had done. I think that it will look better without gaps.
I used a wide artist's brush to apply the wash in the pit. It tended to leave streaks no matter how I tried to manipulate it so I ended up applying a fair amount of wash, spreading it around, and then I used the brush to wick the excess off the surface. I'm going to try a little isopropyl alcohol to see if I can soften the lines.
I don't plan on putting a lot of grass in the pit. I just want a few spots here and there. I'm going to try to cut the self adhesive grass tufts into thin strips so it will look like the grass is only growing in the cracks. If that doesn't work, I have some WS grass fibres that I can hopefully 'plant' in the cracks. I also have some WS ground cover to mimic a few weeds too.
I'm in a quandry as to what colour weathering powders to use and how to apply them. I've only got 4 or 5 colours, all in the yellow/brown range, plus black. Any suggestions?
The other thing I want to do is re-create some lime deposits on the side walls. I'm thinking of getting some white and grey artists oil paints, applying them in thin irregular lines, and then using paint thinner to 'wash' the paint into streaks below the lines. I also want to put rust streaks on the walls from the rails using artists oils as well, but I think that will have to wait until the turntable and tracks are in place so I can position the rust stains properly.
Comments and advice welcomed as always! (Did I say that before?)
On the wood: Wow you don’t mess around when it comes to removing what you don’t like!! When you snug the wood together you may have to have a thinner strip to make the width work out. It will look better if the thin piece isn’t on the outside edge…
Suggestions for pit weathering: a black or dark rust color powders applied sparingly will work. You can really make lots of colors work depending on how you blend them. Try practicing on a scrap to check the techniques. You can layer a brown with black to mute it a bit. If you use powders they can be rinsed off if you don’t like them (providing none of the other weathering materials are water soluble)
On the rust and lime: I might try dry brushing some Polly scale… Easy does it… Practice on the scrap to get the technique right…I really like Model master rust color for darker rust….Not sure how paint thinner will act on the plastic in the pit. At this point you may have covered it with enough paint to render that issue moot…
Below is something you may have already seen. It is a description of the specifics of using real wood and the ins and outs of dyeing it etc.
More tips on working with wood:
Wood: Use fine grained basswood, many kits of old days use big grain pine. This looks bad when stained as the grain is grossly out of scale. Balsa can have the same issues. Northeastern scale, Mt Albert and Kappler are good suppliers. Think in terms of scale dimensions when using wood I.e. 2 X12s for planking, 2 x 4 studs, 4 x 4 posts etc. If you plan to do lots of wood construction, buy an NWSL chopper – one of my most used tools. Tasks like cutting out 150 identical size planks are a piece of cake with this tool.
Cut wood before gluing as mentioned above. Assemble before staining and you run the risk of the glue not absorbing the stain and you will have paint or resort to other methods to cover up bare spots – best to avoid if you can.
Alcohol shoe dye solutions: India Ink gives a slight blue cast to the stained wood, Kiwi shoe dye is more charcoal black, Lincoln dye is nasty but is very potent and gives a very dark jet black. Some modeler’s prefer premixed products such as driftwood stain or Silverwood stain. Micro mark’s sells a premixed shoe dye solution and another option is a product called weather it. All these methods and mixes work well, all have a different look…Refresh the dye in the bottle every so often.
Staining Process: Dyeing wood is messy and the dye solution is nuclear. It will ruin surfaces. God help you if drop your jar or spill it anywhere. Your dye bottle needs to be big if you are making large structures. Parts must be submerged completely for best results. Shake the bottle to insure an even coat (carefully). Get a fork (thrift store) to fish the parts out of the solution.
Drying: After dyeing the wood I will put the pieces in a paper bag with some paper towels and shake the bag a bit. This absorbs the excess dye and gives a nice even coat on the pieces. They are they laid out on paper towels to dry. To keep from sticking, I’ll turn em’ over once as they dry.
To keep from warping - use a solid substructure and when possible use weight to get things flat and solid. After they are dry you shouldn’t have any problems.
A photo: the water stain weathering on this tank is mostly polly scale that has been dry brushed. I was trying to get the white lime deposit look around the edges.
Hope all this is helpful. Have a great Thanksgiving,
Guy:
Thanks for taking the time to post all that information. Very helpful and much appreciated. I'll have to read it a couple of times to let it all soak in. Pardon the pun - 'soak' as in when dyeing the wood.
The water tank is really impressive. You are setting a high standard.
trainnut1250Have a great Thanksgiving,
Thanks, but I've already had my Thanksgiving! Canadian eh! It was good! I hope yours is good too!
All the best!
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
hon30critterPlease show me pictures of your completed turntables,
Well, this is mine. I'm sure it's not terribly prototypical, since it's based on an Atlas and is very short, but I like it.
This is a "pit-bash," taking the venerable Atlas deck turntable, dropping it into the layout and building a false floor which does not rotate. The bridge is mounted to the deck through the hub in the middle.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
This is a really informative thread Dave, It has just confirmed to me though, when I build my own layout I will be incorporating at least two Wyes!!!!
Hi Bear!
My turntable will be feeding a three stall roundhouse, a diesel engine repair facility and several locomotive storage tracks.
MisterBeasley:
Your turntable is very rustic. How did you do the stone walls?
I did something similar with an Atlas turntable except it was lined with Plastruct brick sheets. I used an Atlas deck girder bridge and extended it to fit the turntable. After doing all that work I decided that I couldn't stand the noise and the start/stop action so it sits gathering dust. Its likely headed for a train show/sale.
hon30critterYour turntable is very rustic. How did you do the stone walls?
I cast the walls in hydrocal, using a rock wall mold that I curved around a form. This old thread describes the building process for this.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/99558.aspx?PageIndex=1
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/99558.aspx?PageIndex=1
Mr. B.
Thanks for the link to your thread on kit bashing the Atlas turntable. I made it clickable. Your tutorial is excellent!
I applied some grass tufts and some lime stains. They looked OK. Then I attempted to apply some weathering powders. I managed to get the weathering around the pit rail way too dark and the rust effects way too prominent. I'll have to figure out how to tone it down.
Any suggestions?
Hi, dave
I have had some luck toning down weathering powders (Pan Pastels) by using fine mists of "wet water" and in the case of your pit you might want to hold the pit vertically to keep too much "rust" from spoiling the look of the pit floor.
As you apply the damp mist use a fairly large artist's brush, 5 to 8mm or so, to help wash away the water. Hold the pit over a laundry tub or something to collect the wash water.
If that doesn't have enough lightening effect, then use a broad brush and simply apply some very light gray over the rails and ties to "bleach" them out.
Just a suggestion, others may have some better ideas.
Best Of Luck, Ed
I followed Ed's suggestion and washed off as much of the weathering powders as I could. The turntable looks better but it's still pretty dark. I will have to do a little touch up along the edge of the ring rail ties. I'll try a much smaller brush and a lot less black weathering powder:
Dave,
I think its done. Just light touch up and finish the bridge. I have overapplied the rust many times - fortunately it mostly comes off with some water...
trainnut1250I think its done. Just light touch up and finish the bridge. I have overapplied the rust many times
That's the trick - knowing when to quit!
Thanks
hon30critterThe turntable looks better but it's still pretty dark.
Glad you had some success, Dave!
Over the years, an awful lot of grease and grime is going to accumulate at the ring-rail from all that grease being slung off the gears and bridge journals. I wouldn't be too concerned about it being dark. With all that oil and grease, the rust would not be very prevalent, either, in my estimation.
I think it looks sharp!
Ed
Thanks Ed!
On to the bridge. I'm waiting for some black shoe dye to arrive so I can stain the second attempt at planking. Guy suggested not leaving any gaps between the boards and I think he is right, so I stripped out the first attempt at planking which had spaces. The spaces just didn't look right.
I also have to build an overhead light to go outside the control cabin so the operator can see the track alignment. There will be a second very dim light in the cabin. I'm not sure how often a turntable would be operated at night at the end of the steam era, but the turntable also services a diesel engine shop too so my service facility staff choose to be ready for anything!
Purchased the 130' TT 18 months ago, spent the last year trying to get this working properly. Great pains have been taken to get bench work true and level. It was installed on Midwest cork roadbed to match existing track levels. Calibration was successful. I only installed the lead track and track 2. I purchased two Walthers 3 stall round house buildings and laid out the track locations and 5 more garden tracks. This is where the problems began......the bridge would never properly line up with different types of locomotives. I don't know if weight was a factor or not. Multiple resets and calibrations failed to resolve the wandering alignment with different steam or diesel locomotives. Went over the rotation mechanism with a magnifying glass and see nothing wrong. Disassembled the contact ring.....cleaned and adjusted contact fingers and that assembly also is fine. Just when you think that last "adjustment " has corrected the problem, it would fail. Researched the various suggestions posted on MR forum to no avail. I have reached my limit of frustration. As of yesterday....TT has been returned to the original shipping container.......I glued the floors together for both roundhouse buildings and construction stops there, lids back on the box.......plywood will be replaced and the space used for something else. My experience with Walther's 130' TT has been an exercise in aggravation. As a side note.....this was the first time I worked with code 83 track and I found it way to "fragile" for my purpose. My layout consists of 900+ feet of code 100 flex track and 115 turnouts laid on Midwest cork roadbed for decades......still runs fine!
Hi EMDSD40:
Quite the ordeal! You have every right to be frustrated.
I'm hoping that my bridge will be quite stable with the kit bashed bogie assemblies. As far as I can tell the new wheels sit nicely on the ring rail and everything rotates smoothly. The bridge doesn't rock. Of course I don't have any track set up yet to test it.
I'm going to use a train set power pack to turn the bridge so I can control the speed of rotation. Alignment will be visual. I'm hoping that will work. It will be a while before I can test it.
The engine service facility will be one of the focal points for me. Having a turntable and roundhouse were two of the first requirements when I started the track plan.
Regards,
Thanks Ed K.
You have caused me to stop and think about the turntable location. On second examination, it is too far away to see the track alignment properly. A little while ago I increased the size of the helix over which the turntable will sit. That added about 1' to the reach in distance. The result is that the turntable can barely be reached. Not a good plan! Back to the drawing board.
Dave.. On yur weathering .. you can try adding a bit of gray to tone it down to your liking. light or med, just a little at a time. I would also suggest doing avery small section at first to see if it has the effect you are after. If you need to remove weathering, use a q tip or cotton ball with alcohol. I have done this on painted models, and as long as you dont scrub the paint will stay...
Tony
EK Sub in HO Scale
Thanks Tony
Tone it down? Well admitedly this pic was not taken in the hey day of an actively used TT
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Henry!
What a great shot!!! That is the best picture of a well used pit that I have seen! Thanks so much!
The pit is obviously well soiled from years of use. I love the rust and grease stains that have accumulated where the locomotives come on the the bridge from outside the roundhouse. The apparent water stains or wet patches look great too. I now have a much better idea of how to get the look I want.
Quite the collection of locomotives too. All nice and shiney.
Sorry that I haven't posted recently. I was waiting for some shoe dye to arrive so I could stain the bridge planks. It is 10 days overdue so I have asked for a refund.
In the mean time I have taken a shot at modelling the sort of weathering shown in the picture that Henry posted. Here is where it stands. The rust stain will be under the bridge when the bridge is set to the main turntable feed track, hence the accumulation of deposits where the most traffic is. However, the rust stain needs to be toned down significantly and made to look greasier in the middle:
Here is Henry's picture for reference:
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d2/5/1/7/3517.1478039898.jpg
By the time I get this right the pit will be filled up with paint and weathering powder!
Toned down rust stain:
Waddya think? I'll have to make the bridge really rusty to explain the stains in the pit.
It seems to me that the only thing that can explain that rust staining in the prototype pit is parking the bridge in the same position when the turntable in not being used. That makes sense in a museum setting, but would that also be the case on your railroad? And to that degree?
When I browsed my limited collection of turntable photos, I saw a couple that had some degree of staining, but nothing as severe as that in Henry's photo.
Here's another pit for your consideration.
CG