TheWizard ATSFGuy So what is a fair and reasonable price for Walthers to sell Locomotives, Passenger Cars, Freight Cars, and Track at then? I'm curious Well the Amfleet cars are currently selling for $50, lighted. They did a "limited run" 6 car set for $720, or $120 a car. Given that they can sell them for $50/car, $60 would be acceptable, but $120 is just crazy expensive. Their caboose prices are equally as nuts. The new bay window mainline cabooses are over $40 a piece, with shipping. Given the lack of detail, I would pay $20, maybe.
ATSFGuy So what is a fair and reasonable price for Walthers to sell Locomotives, Passenger Cars, Freight Cars, and Track at then? I'm curious
Well the Amfleet cars are currently selling for $50, lighted. They did a "limited run" 6 car set for $720, or $120 a car.
Given that they can sell them for $50/car, $60 would be acceptable, but $120 is just crazy expensive.
Their caboose prices are equally as nuts. The new bay window mainline cabooses are over $40 a piece, with shipping. Given the lack of detail, I would pay $20, maybe.
I feel the same way. It's not economics, it's greed. Cost of Proto 2000 stuff skyrocketed after they bought them, same thing with the vehicle manufacturer they bought, prices roughly doubled there as well.
I don't knock a lot of their products in general, but their business practices are suspect to anyone who is into any other hobbies.
I do agree with you on the $50-60 range for lighted cars. Before they bought P2K they made them for less than that MSRP. Now if you want the light and the close coupling on Mainline cars it will cost you roughly another $32-35.........
I am always thrilled by the different skills and abilities of some of the members of this community!
Some are able to foresee the future, without looking into a crystal ball, and others have the ability to hear the grass grow.
I don´t think that Walthers is in financial trouble, yet the decision to merge the two catalogs is purely an economic necessity. There is a lot of $$$ involved in producing a big catalog and even with the steep price of $15, it is doubtful that Walthers will recoup the cost of making it. Less and less people go through the trouble of buying a catalog in a time, when more up to date information is available online. Furthermore, the limited run/batch production policy makes the catalog outdated the moment it leaves the press.
Video killed the radio star and the Internet the paper catalog. Walthers is just following a route other mail order business have gone down already a few years ago. So enjoy the catalog as long as you can obtain a copy and go back to model railroading!
Some of the misgivings about product availability expressed here may grow out of the extensive use of the word catalog, which some may interpret as 'Stock List', when in fact Walthers calls it a Reference Book, not a catalog. Walthers appears to me to make some effort to indicate 'unavailable', 'Sold Out', or 'Discontinued when sold out'.
Paul Dwhen in fact Walthers calls it a Reference Book, not a catalog
Now that´s splitting the hair four times!
What good is a reference to something no longer available? Whatever Walthers calls their catalog, people expect the items listed to be available.
Sir Madog Paul D when in fact Walthers calls it a Reference Book, not a catalog Now that´s splitting the hair four times! What good is a reference to something no longer available? Whatever Walthers calls their catalog, people expect the items listed to be available.
Paul D
when in fact Walthers calls it a Reference Book, not a catalog
The Catalog Prices are Suggested Retail Price. The are intentionally high so that the dealer can get it for you for less than retail and still make a profit. Perhaps the dealer pays les than half the catalog price (depending on his volume, I am sure), he can then five his favored customers a good discount and still make good money on the deal.
I was never a high volume customer at my LHS now long closed, and buy even less from Trainworld (who by the way still hasn't shipped my Pre-Ordered Subway Trains). Gotta build stuff as best as I can from scratch. It will have to do.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Michael M. hit it on the head with his cite. I do prefer the term "discretionary purchase" vs "luxury good." Either way, model trains are not a high volume/low profit item nor are they something anyone absolutely needs in life. Buying them is what you should do with resources excess to your cost of living.
JEREMY CENTANNI I feel the same way. It's not economics, it's greed...SNIP ...their business practices are suspect to anyone who is into any other hobbies.
No, I don't think so. Their pricing reflects the cost of current production, not greed. And model railroading isn't like other hobbies. Much of what is needed has to be produced specifically for our hobby, not repackaged or repurposed from common stock that is mass produced. We want not only a Model XYZ item, but Model XYZ in multiple paint schemes specific to different railroads and thus requiring different SKUs. Then with many nowadays, we want specific details also applied. Add in consumer interest in getting evermore detail in each run, assuming they do make multiple runs, and there's more pressure on the cost side. People want more, more, more and then refuse to believe that such demands inevitably result in higher costs and thus a higher MSRP. Some roads have a high demand and others have substantially lower -- even in the same run of the same basic item -- but consumers expect them to cost the same. And most people want things RTR these days, rather than building it yourself (remember when that was part of the hobby? I still do...), which inevitably makes the cost and pricing of new items always go up as labor costs almost always do...
If all that bothers you, then maybe you're in the WRONG hobby? Not because it's not the World's Greatest Hobby, but because you're so tight about it you still think you can have all of the above and it won't cost you a penny more than the alternative...
But if you're slightly less picky, there is a HUGE used market where you can get lots of barely used stuff at substantial discount. You pay for the privilege of lack of patience and wanting to be the first to unbox the latest thing to hit the market. For instance, do you buy a new car every year or are you like the majority of us who either buy used or buy new and make it last a decade or more? Relax and wait a year or so and most things are available at what you might consider a "non-greedy" price. As maxman noted, this is also why it's termed a "reference book" because it's a guide to recent production that may no longer be available from Walthers, but which you might still find in stock at a hobby shop or on the used market.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
* applause *And, of course, the Tony's Train Exchange price on a 1 amp ESU Loksound with 6 functions and digitally recorded sound is less in absolute dollars than the price of a Soundtraxx diesel decoder with 2 functions in 1999, but never mind that...
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Yep, Walthers purchased the Caboose Hobbies location, and are moving the entire company to Colorado. The basically purchased the entire block and will be constructing a full size kit on the site that will serve as the new hq.
Caboose Hobbies is currently having a moving sale and will be moving to a warehouse outside of Denver.
Atlas is currently purchasing Bowser and will move the manufacturing overseas, and Lionel has purchased Kadee.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Geared Steam Yep, Walthers purchased the Caboose Hobbies location, and are moving the entire company to Colorado. The basically purchased the entire block and will be constructing a full size kit on the site that will serve as the new hq.
All right! Another one bought, I'm just waiting for the products to be released again under the Caboose Hobbies/Walthers banner with all prices having a 50% to 100% price increase
Sir MadogSome are able to foresee the future, without looking into a crystal ball, and others have the ability to hear the grass grow.
Ulrich,Living in the US it doesn't take much to see the hand writing on the wall for changes before it happens.. It always starts slow and in the smaller cities. Look at the large piles of BB kits still on the tables at train shows.That started in the 90s at hobby shops-same kits no new cars from Athearn. Atlas,P2K,Branch Line,Red Caboose and IM was starting to take over the freight car market.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Geared SteamYep, Walthers purchased the Caboose Hobbies location, and are moving the entire company to Colorado. The basically purchased the entire block and will be constructing a full size kit on the site that will serve as the new hq.
What kit did Walthers use?
Geared Steam Yep, Walthers purchased the Caboose Hobbies location, and are moving the entire company to Colorado. The basically purchased the entire block and will be constructing a full size kit on the site that will serve as the new hq. Caboose Hobbies is currently having a moving sale and will be moving to a warehouse outside of Denver. Atlas is currently purchasing Bowser and will move the manufacturing overseas, and Lionel has purchased Kadee.
Uh oh, somebody's been sipping the cooking sherry while visiting the Forums again.
Dave Nelson
BRAKIE Geared Steam Yep, Walthers purchased the Caboose Hobbies location, and are moving the entire company to Colorado. The basically purchased the entire block and will be constructing a full size kit on the site that will serve as the new hq. What kit did Walthers use?
Geared Steam
Rumor (or rumour for everyone north o' the border) is the power house kit.
rrebell maxman rrebell the white pages are long gone. Actually you can request a hard copy and they will send it to you. No you can't, it dosn't exist in usefull form anymore, very few landlines. My mother has one though, shes 95. Most everyone where I live has a cell phone or phones only.
maxman rrebell the white pages are long gone. Actually you can request a hard copy and they will send it to you.
rrebell the white pages are long gone.
Actually you can request a hard copy and they will send it to you.
No you can't, it dosn't exist in usefull form anymore, very few landlines. My mother has one though, shes 95. Most everyone where I live has a cell phone or phones only.
Jeff