Wheel Wipers ?

[RR_Mel]

I haven’t had much luck with the newer metal frame trucks picking up power from the rails. The older trucks (70s and earlier) work very good.  I looked around for commercial wipers but they are a bit pricy when one needs a lot of them.

 

I have seen several threads on several Forums as well as videos on YouTube about using the Brass or Bronze Kadee centering gizmo but I didn’t like doing it that way.  I finally gave in yesterday and converted 6 pair of plastic frame four wheel freight trucks for my cabooses as an experiment.  The first one was a disaster but after I got the hang of it the next dozen went pretty well.  They do work pretty good.

 

My question is how well do they hold up over time?  I’m like most model railroaders and have a sack full of the Kadee centering springs, I have enough to do fifty or more trucks.  Am I safe with converting a sack full of trucks?

 

If you are wondering how many cabooses I have because I’m looking to convert 25 pair of freight trucks, I only have 9 cabooses but I also have a lot of Overton and other old time cars with lighting.

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[doctorwayne]

I don't use any lighted cars (or locos, for that matter), but added wipers to improve locomotive reliability.  The first ones used the Kadee centring springs, and work well enough:

For more recent ones, I've switched to using Tichy's phosphor bronze wire - not sure if this is .015" or .020":

For the brass trucks and loco retainer plates, I use two-sided copper-clad board, but for plastic trucks, the board can be single-sided and either screwed to the truck or attached using contact cement or epoxy.
The advantage of the wire is that it allows more versatility in placement, especially useful on locos, where the gearbox often gets in the way.  It also allows multiple adjustments to the pressure exerted by the wire on the wheel treads or wheel backs.  Placing wipers which rub on the wheel backs works best when both wheels on each axle receive a wiper, as it prevents wheels from always being displaced to the same side by the pressure.

Wayne

[RR_Mel]

Another question Wayne.  Do you think the bronze wire would work as an axle wiper?  I don’t feel comfortable with wheel wipers.  It should be rather easy to use a Kadee centering spring as a base plate to solder a .02” bronze wire to.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[doctorwayne]

Yeah, I'd guess that the wire would work well as an axle wiper.  The ability to adjust the pressure is a useful quality to allow reliable pick-up without inducing too much drag.
I'm not sure how well the Kadee spring will work as an attachment point, but it's certainly worth a try, as the cost is right.  My concern would be having it deform from tension on the wire, but fastening it securely should take care of that.

I've also seen wire axle wipers installed on plastic trucks using a screw:  the wire is bent at its midpoint to form a loop, through which the screw is inserted and then attached to the truck's bolster.  This places each end of the same wire on both axles of the same truck, simplifying the wiring to the lights.

Wayne

[RR_Mel]

My concern with the wheel wipers is they push the axle into the journal without any weight on the truck, I’m worried about the trucks derailing through turnouts with the side pressure on the wheel.

 

I ordered some 0.01”, 0.015” & 0.02” bronze rod from Tichy.

 

I tried using some 0.008” bronze strips but they’re too hard to work with.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[hminky]

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1905/tender_wipers/

or

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1879/bachmann_4-4-0/sound/

Thank you if you visit

Harold

[RR_Mel]

hminky

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1905/tender_wipers/

 

or

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1879/bachmann_4-4-0/sound/

 

Thank you if you visit

Harold

 

I had visited your site several times before I attempted my conversion.  I wanted to use the Kadee centering spring as a sort of contact/bushing between the trucks and the frame for power transfer eliminating the need for wires.  I made a bearing plate from 3mm solder lugs to connect to the trucks.

 

 

I also worry about soldering wires to the trucks.  What wire do you suggest for attaching to the wipers?  Your web page doesn’t mention wire size.

 

I currently have TCS #30 in stock and while it is flexible I’m not sure if it is flexible enough to prevent derails.  I also stock Teflon insolated #40 but I don’t think it would survive the constant movement of the trucks.  The load to my onboard power supply is limited to a max of 30ma so current is not an issue.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[Arjay1969]

Mel,

I have used the Kadee springs as wipers successfully using #30 wire left over from decoder installations. It is indeed flexible enough to prevent derailments, provided that you leave enough length between the carbody and the truck for strain relief.

Another thing I have done which avoids the lateral force on the wheelset is to cut a piece of brass tubing with an inner diameter just slightly larger than the diameter of the axle, ground on one side so it forms a "C." Snap it onto the axle and use a piece of either semi-stiff brass wire or phosphor bronze soldered to the tubing to connect the two axles.  solder the pickup wire to the brass wire, and you have a pretty durable (and reliable!) set of pickups. I have a set of these on one of my passenger cars that has been in use for nearly 10 years now.

[Mark R.]

I use an entirely different approach - this will only work with "live" axles though  ....

I use a length of 24 awg solid wire (telephone wire) and wrap it around the axle five or six turns, leaving about one inch of length. Don't wrap it real tight. If the trucks are plastic, I heat meld the extra wire into the beam between the king pin hole and the side frame. The excess wire is trimmed off leaving about 1/8" beyond the bolster.

Repeat the other axle, only heat meld (or glue) it to the other side of the bolster from the first one. Solder fine flexible wire to the two 1/8" extensions and run them up through the floor through their own holes placed above the solder point.

I done all my lighted caboose this way and it works very well. With wipers on the back of the whell, there is just one tiny contact point. With the wire wrapped around the axle, there is a huge contact patch at all times.

I will also have the axles in each truck with the insulated wheel on opposite sides. This way, there is pick up for the left and right rail at both ends of the car ensuring better pick up through turnouts, etc..

Mark. 

[hon30critter]

Robert and Mark:

Interesting ideas!

Dave

[Nick100]

Micro-Mark sells a phosphor bronze sheet that may allow you to cut out some wipers to fit your design. it is a little expensive but was made for making electrical wipers. Package includes three 5 inch x 7 inch x 0.008 thick sheets for $13.50.

Mico-Mark Item #:83100

 

[RR_Mel]

Wow, lots of good ideas on this thread.

 

I feel like Joe BTFSPLK on this one, for the younger guys he was the character in the Li’l Abner cartoon with the cloud fixin to rain on his parade 24/7.

 

I’ve tried so many things over the years that either worked a little bit or crashed and burned.  At this point the Kadee centering spring is the easiest to do and works OK, but only time will tell.

 

Robert:  I’m happy to hear you have used the Kadee centering springs for 10 years with good luck, that is good to hear.

 

Mark: I retired from the communications industry so Telco wire isn’t new to me.  Many years ago I used some solid #24 exactly like you described and it did a pretty good job for me.  I don’t remember why I gave it up, it must have been in the late 70s or two layouts back.

 

Nick:  I have some 0.008” phosphor bronze sheets but with my almost 80 year old hands I couldn’t get it right.  I find material that thin too hard to work with.  I even bought a metal punch thinking that would make holes in the thin material but that was a disaster.  The punch is super sharp but it still wrinkled the thin bronze.  That was my last try before the Kadee centering springs.  My problem is mostly my temper, when things don’t go well by the fourth or fifth shot I normally fix it with a hammer . . . . another old age thing.

 

I really like the dual Kadee thingy from Harold using the #90 screws but I’m hung up on two wires from the trucks, one wire sounds bad enough to me.  I fear derailments.  I have a zero tolerance policy for derails on my layout. (Hammer)

 

The trucks I’m currently working on will go on my shorty Overton coaches and cabooses and of course they are the lightest cars on my layout.  A strong look can derail one of my Overtons.

 

I’m low on #30 black wire so when I place my order to replace it I’ll add some #32 to the list, in this case the smaller the better!

 

Keep the ideas coming guys, this is a very informative thread.

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[Arjay1969]

Mel,

It's actually the tubing pickup that's been in use for 10 years...I have only used the Kadee springs for a few months now.  My biggest worry about them is that they will cut grooves in the back of the wheels.  The tubing gives a large enough surface area on the axle to keep it from cutting a groove.

Gotta agree...it's interesting seeing the myriad ways that modelers come up with to solve problems!