riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL There are modelers on this forum, who in one thread will be telling us about their latest in a long line of BLI or MTH $500 locomotives, or $100 passenger cars, and in the next thread tell us the NMRA is too expensive - shame on them. Sheldon You are smart enough to read between the lines on the "too expensive" comment; obviously what they are saying using other terms are, it's not worth it to them to spend the money. As for the "If you don't want to join, fine, but if you can afford to be in this hobby to any degree past a 4x8, you can afford the dues." comment, there was a time when my ex-wife limited me to $20/month to spend on the hobby. I could probably build a layout bigger than 4x8' over time but if I had to pay club dues or membership fee's, it would indeed have drastically impinged on my layout progress or ability to buy equipment and rolling stock. I have been able to spend well above that after we separated although I was too poor to live in a place with enough space for a layout for many years, what with the high child support payments etc. and bad economy in the city where I lived. Often, we are faced with choices, would I rather spend the money on items to enjoy the hobby with or to spend it on membership fee's or club dues. The old saying goes, YMMV, obviously intelligent people can disagree on how they spend their own money and not have to make apologies to anyone.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL There are modelers on this forum, who in one thread will be telling us about their latest in a long line of BLI or MTH $500 locomotives, or $100 passenger cars, and in the next thread tell us the NMRA is too expensive - shame on them. Sheldon
There are modelers on this forum, who in one thread will be telling us about their latest in a long line of BLI or MTH $500 locomotives, or $100 passenger cars, and in the next thread tell us the NMRA is too expensive - shame on them.
Sheldon
You are smart enough to read between the lines on the "too expensive" comment; obviously what they are saying using other terms are, it's not worth it to them to spend the money.
As for the "If you don't want to join, fine, but if you can afford to be in this hobby to any degree past a 4x8, you can afford the dues." comment, there was a time when my ex-wife limited me to $20/month to spend on the hobby. I could probably build a layout bigger than 4x8' over time but if I had to pay club dues or membership fee's, it would indeed have drastically impinged on my layout progress or ability to buy equipment and rolling stock.
I have been able to spend well above that after we separated although I was too poor to live in a place with enough space for a layout for many years, what with the high child support payments etc. and bad economy in the city where I lived. Often, we are faced with choices, would I rather spend the money on items to enjoy the hobby with or to spend it on membership fee's or club dues. The old saying goes, YMMV, obviously intelligent people can disagree on how they spend their own money and not have to make apologies to anyone.
Agreed, and as I have said on here many times, I'm not a price complainer. Being self employed I don't want customers who think they are paying too much. And I don't act like that when I buy things - I either buy or don't, I don't whine about prices.
But by saying it is "too expensive", they are implying they would join if it cost less - when in fact they would not - either way it is disingenuous - preferring to buy two more box cars, or simply not seeing the value and then saying its too expensive.
Its like voting - if you don't vote, don't complain about the outcome.
If you are not contributing to the NMRA in one way or another, I'm not really invested in your opinion of the NMRA......
Glad you got away from that first wife..........
PS - clubs, not for me.
One only gets out of any organization what they are willing to add. When I lived in Dayton, Ohio I was an NMRA member. The Mid-central region as well as the Div 3 in Dayton are very active, monthly division meetings, with contests, clinics, field trips, open houses, etc. When I moved to western Colorado in 1998, there was no close division organization. I ran into a few modelers, but nothing like southern Ohio. I let my membership lapse. If you are a lone wolf, holed up in your basement working by yourself, NMRA membership won't be a benefit, but it works for a lot of people.
7j43kI have been a scale model railroader (HO) since 1958. Off and on, it is true. I joined NMRA in 1961. I did so because I felt I owed the organization that set the standards that allowed my hobby to work. I declined to be a member approximately 1965 when I had a bit of a hissy fit concerning modeling competition. I reinforced my declination when I attended a local convention wherein there was an award for a "trains on stamps" competition. Won by a local NMRA honcho. "Trains on stamps"? As a competition???... ...In the last half century, I have detected no interest from the NMRA in having me be a member... I will note that what I call "merit badge competitiveness" was a real problem for me. I now attend events, such as BAPM, where there are no awards. It's all show and tell. We're there to share what we're up to, not to get first place. Or a check mark. I will never enter my work in competition. And I will strive to be a master model railroader on my own terms, thank you very much.
...In the last half century, I have detected no interest from the NMRA in having me be a member...
I will note that what I call "merit badge competitiveness" was a real problem for me. I now attend events, such as BAPM, where there are no awards. It's all show and tell. We're there to share what we're up to, not to get first place. Or a check mark.
I will never enter my work in competition. And I will strive to be a master model railroader on my own terms, thank you very much.
Ed,
Just to be clear here, lots of things have changed in the AP program since 1965...when it was actually just a few years old. I suspect we're still learning how best to make that work, but I suspect this isn't something you have much interest in based on your comments.
I would just want to point out that the Achievement Program is something a very small part of our membrship participates in. Not all are interested, probably for some of the same reasons you're not. Partly this is due to a misapprehension of what contest scoring is about in relation to the AP. For the most part, the scoring system is to encourage the modeler to get to a level of expertise where they improve their skills. Yes, these models are often entered in contests in connection with NMRA events, but these are two separate things. You don't need to be in the AP program to enter NMRA-associated model contests in most cases and IIRC, there's no need to enter AP models in open contests, just that they meet certain standards that are used for judging contests.
The MMR is the ultimate goal if you're a AP participant, but like being an Eagle Scout, relatively few make it to a MMR, there are less than 600 total in the history of the NMRA IIRC. But even if you don't make MMR for whatever reason, you still learn a lot in the process.
But "merit bedges" really doesn't much apply. Most people are very active participants in the NMRA and never go near AP. With Scouts, you don't get much beyond First Class until you start earning those badges. Funny, those I did earn I felt were well worth it, although I ended up leaving as a Star Scout and well short of Eagle. And I've yet to turn in anything for AP, yet I feel my NMRA membership is well worth it. YMMV
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
slammin One only gets out of any organization what they are willing to add. When I lived in Dayton, Ohio I was an NMRA member. The Mid-central region as well as the Div 3 in Dayton are very active, monthly division meetings, with contests, clinics, field trips, open houses, etc. When I moved to western Colorado in 1998, there was no close division organization. I ran into a few modelers, but nothing like southern Ohio. I let my membership lapse. If you are a lone wolf, holed up in your basement working by yourself, NMRA membership won't be a benefit, but it works for a lot of people.
I somewhat agree, I started out as an NMRA, Regional, and Division Member in Toledo, Ohio Div. 1. The rules back then were you had to join the National before you could join the Region and then the Division.
Along came the 70's the 5 year membership went away, and you could be in the Divison without being in the other's. I moved to Colorado and joined the Northern Colorado Division without joining the other two again.
I then moved to Alaska where belonging to any of them was a joke, Alaska was in a Divison with Seatle, WA which was a 4 hour flight from Anchorage, should have had separate divisions on that one.
I am now in Northeast Ohio, and attended Division 4 meetings, but since I live in Division 1 I cannot vote or hold office in Division 4. Most of my Model Railroading friends live in Division 4 and I do some functions with Division 4 as the club I am a member of has open houses etc. I do not do anything with Divison 1 as I am not interested in their activities.
I have not renewed my NMRA membership due to this mess with Division boundries (I can throw a rock into Division 4 from my house). And per an statement by an NMRA official on a previous thread the NRMA has reasons for not doing that but would not elaborate, even though I asked for the explanation.
Rick
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
For those who were following the discussion:
After csmincemoyer commented on NW PA possibly (location dependent) being in a different division, I did some research, (and a couple of PM's), and, for those affected: Erie, and Crawford counties of PA, and Chataqua county NY are now in the Mid-Central region, Division 5. (Same group puts on Railfest every spring in Kirkland, OH. as was mentioned.)
This puts Erie, Meadville, Corry Pa, and surrounding areas, as well as Jamestown, Clymer, Ripley NY, and nearby areas, in a very active Division 5 of the very active Mid-central region.
Thanks goes out to csmincemoyer for letting me know this has happened.
Now, time for me to reconsider not being in the NMRA.... As I said, change one thing, this is one big change. (For the better IMO.)
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Go figure as one that has been vocal for not joining the NMRA, I may have just recruited a member for them. Strange world we live in! You're welcome Ricky!
csmincemoyerGo figure as one that has been vocal for not joining the NMRA, I may have just recruited a member for them. Strange world we live in! You're welcome Ricky!
We nonetheless appreciate it.
I think it comes down to this how that happens. The issues that people find with the NMRA as individuals tend to be very specific. Some policy, person or circumstances irritated them.
And no organization or person is perfect.
But the NMRA does a lot of good for individuals, as well as the hobby as a whole. In fact, most of the time I think what the NMRA does is something even its critics would approve of, if they stop and think about it. But people rarely bring that up when starting such discussions and it then turns to those one or two things they just can't see eye-to-eye on. And that's fine, we encounter many situations in life where we have no choice about remaining engaged with some employer, life mate, or institution. Anyone's association with the NMRA is purely voluntary. If it does your heart good to walk away for some reason, then that's the person's perogative.
But the way the NMRA runs as a group of volunteers engaged in education and service in support of our hobby also means it's subject to change, like I noted about the AP program. A gripe about it from 1965 doesn't have much relevance to how it is today or how the oragnization is. Most who were members then have passed on.
At the core of my argument here is this point. Volunteer orgnizations do what they do because of who participates, for better or worse. Think the NMRA offers some things of value for you? Give it a chance and participate, because it you still want it to be better for some reason, the quickest and best way is actually to join and get active.
Same thing for all those areas where there isn't an active division. Ours (the Illinois Terminal Division) was moribund when one fellow decided to get us active again. He's moved on but in the decade+ since he took action we've come a long way. And there's still a long way to go, but the way that changes is because those of us here decided that's what we wanted, not the status quo.
This thread has taken on a life of its own. I am thankful to all who have posted here in the Pro joining and the side that something will have to freeze over before I join. I think it important to hear all sides. Please keep them coming both for and against.
Another reason to join that I did not mention the first time is the archive work the NMRA is doing. Also that weekend I happened upon two men sitting in a rail car (of course ) at computers. I was amazed to find that they were two volunteers loading photos of trains into the NMRA, so that these will not be lost to time and researches can look these up and study them. If I remember correctly one guy professed to have loaded over a thousand photos !
To me that alone is one huge benefit of being an MNRA member. Anyone can look these up and for a small fee down load them.
TTYL
YGW