installation and spring replacement is all in the touch and tools. It really depends on the car.
A foam cradle is a handy tool any time your working on a car or loco.
At times, I use a small piece of scotch tape to hold the coupler and spring in the pocket. When the cover is snug, the tape will come off easily.
The trick to the spring on the knuckle is to use a pick like the Kadee spring pick. Hold the spring up between you thumb and finger. Install the pick near one end, two or three rings in. Use the pick to place the other end of the spring on the inner tab. Place your finger over that end of the spring. Use the pick to compress the spring to fit over the outside tab. The pull the pick out slightly in the direction of the outside tab. This works most of the time. I find, if you by a 40 coupler multi pack, four couplers will be missing the knuckle spring.
I still prefer the #5 type. The brass spring is a pain, but you have extras and can be replaced. I have found the whiskers can break and I do not see a method to replace them. The whiskers also do not fit some applications.
Larry
www.llxlocomotives.com
So many trains, so little time,
If whiskers break, you can fall back on the bronze spring, but I'd guess it's rare. Actually you are the first to mention it gglars.
I did pick up a bulk pack of semi-scale KD's but the non whisker type at $16 at that shop closing out all items for 50% off at the Timonium show. Should be fine in some cars and a good deal.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761:
I'm not sure if you meant this, but I don't believe the #5 style bronze springs can be used to fix a broken spring on a #148. The whisker spring coupler shanks are thicker than the #5s so when you remove a #5 and the bronze spring the #148 will fit in the same coupler box without sagging. At least, that's my understanding.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter riogrande5761: I'm not sure if you meant this, but I don't believe the #5 style bronze springs can be used to fix a broken spring on a #148. The whisker spring coupler shanks are thicker than the #5s so when you remove a #5 and the bronze spring the #148 will fit in the same coupler box without sagging. At least, that's my understanding. Dave
I have noticed the shank end looks like a #5 but if it's thicker, maybe filing the shank a bit would work with the bronze spring - or at least it wouldn't sag - which is often a problem!
Through my own carelessness I broke a sping on a 148.I removed the other spring and several months later installed like a #5 with the centering spring in a BB 50' gon.. I didn't notice any operational issues even though it was a smidgen to high.
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Nobody mentioned the "Fat Fingers" remedy. Remove the truck, and get more room to work.
Also, I find two wood toothpicks make replacing knuckle springs easy.
hobo9941Nobody mentioned the "Fat Fingers" remedy. Remove the truck, and get more room to work.
I fully agree 100%.. Removing the trucks may take a minute or two longer but,it makes installation a breeze.
riogrande5761I've wanted to get one of those but when I've seen the price tag, I always close my wallet in disgust. So expensive for a bloody hunk of foam! I see foam thrown out all the time so I'm going to make one.
I said the same thing for years and finally I realized that this piece of foam has saved me hours of time by holding one of my 'very expensive' engines for me while I do repairs/coupler replacement/ or other necessary tasks. I consider this a very necessary tool and we all know that good tools are worth the price that we have to pay sometimes. I plan to have my 'cheap block of foam' until I die or get too blind to use it. Heck, I just blew $15 on lottery tickets that went into the trash!
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
dti406 "Quote RioGrande: The only KD's which I've found particularly tricky are the #3x series that have the wire centering spring which has to be added when assembling the KD into that draft gear box - yes, those are a real treat - but I've found I don't use those much at all" It's too bad those are the couplers that come with the PS 2003CF Covered Hoppers, a real pain to re-install what with the cut lever and other detail parts in the way. Rick
"Quote RioGrande:
The only KD's which I've found particularly tricky are the #3x series that have the wire centering spring which has to be added when assembling the KD into that draft gear box - yes, those are a real treat - but I've found I don't use those much at all"
It's too bad those are the couplers that come with the PS 2003CF Covered Hoppers, a real pain to re-install what with the cut lever and other detail parts in the way.
Rick
BTW, didn't Intermountain come up with the idea of whisker couplers back in the '90's, followed by Kadee's improved version? Not trying to derail things, just making sure I have the chronology correct.
Uh, considering that horn-hook couplers use whisker springs I somehow doubt Swindlermountain had anything to do with their invention. I think the idea of casting knuckle couplers with whisker springs for centering might pre-date the '90s depending on how old the Athearn blue-box kits I've seen with that style are (I even own a couple that came like that, and the boxes seem to be older blue boxes).
Getting or making a foam cradle is all well and good, but holding a car still is only going to do so much. If one has an issue with fat-fingering things when it comes to maneuvering small parts, something like needle-nose pliers or even bathroom tweezers would be the more relevant tool. One of those helping hand tools (which are also useful for soldering work) to hold the coupler in place would help, as would just putting something under the coupler to keep gravity making it fall out. Getting the truck out of the way also definitely helps and is in fact a recommended step in the installation procedure.
It doesn't surprise me that fitting Kadee #5s and their separate center springs into existing draft gear boxes sometimes runs into trouble. They were designed more to go with the boxes they come with, since when they were new most models had talgo couplers. And even if there was an existing box on the body or if you wanted to talgo mount them, Kadee probably deemed wholesale replacement of the existing equipment easier.
Regarding the repair/replacement of broken whisker springs, I think you could cut a strip of soda can aluminum, cement that to the end of a coupler after a little pre-filing, and bend it into shape.
As for finding dropped closure springs and the like, aquarium magnets are your friend. Little piece of metal like that can hide from your eyes and fingers, but not one of those babies.
Interiors and people figures make such a difference. Especially the people.
gunkheadAs for finding dropped closure springs and the like, aquarium magnets are your friend. Little piece of metal like that can hide from your eyes and fingers, but not one of those babies. Add Quote to your Post
Hi gunkhead:
I'm not sure if we are talking about the same springs, but Kadee knuckle springs are not magnetic.
I also have to question the value of trying to repair a missing whisker spring. Seems like a recipe for failure to me just to save a buck, but each to his own.
I could have sworn the closure springs on the #5s I bought way back when were magnetic.. What the crap is Kadee making out of them that they aren't?
As for my suggestion for repairing a broken centering whisker, well, when I see someone mention an issue with something breaking I instinctively try to come up with a fix.
The springs look to me like they are some sort of phosphor bronze or tempered brass alloy.
I try to offer solutions too. In the case of repairing the whisker springs I think my suggestion is valid - don't! New #148 couplers currently can be bought for less than $0.70 ea plus shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KADEE-140-50-PAIR-Ultra-Pack-NO-148-whisker-Bulk-Pack-YANKEEDABBLER-/351628962830?hash=item51deb82c0e:g:xSYAAOSwoydWlnJI
gunkhead Uh, considering that horn-hook couplers use whisker springs ..
Uh, considering that horn-hook couplers use whisker springs ..
Maybe it's just semantics but I have never seen a horn hook coupler with whisker springs - they all have a plastic loop finger that always forces them all the way to one side. The whisker's on Kadee's look like whiskers sticking out on either side to center them in the iddle.
Right. The spring on a horn book is different from Intermountain's and Kadee's whisker springs. IM came out with plastic knuckle couplers with whiskers on either side of the shank as their contribution to the knuckle coupler wars that also gave us the McHenry, the split Accurail and Kato, and various others after Kadee's patents expired. I *think* Kadee's similar coupler came out awhile later, but I wasn't sure about the timing.
When referring to the Intermountain coupler, are you talking about before they started equipping their rolling stock Kadee's some years back?
One of the reasons why Kadee are superior, and I think that's a nearly universal opinion amongst, that they use metal springs rather than plastic. Let me give an example of why plastic makes a poor material for springs. I have four 5-packs of Athearn Thrall hi-side coal gondola's which came with all plastic McHenry couplers. Those couplers have plastic centering springs and plastic closure springs. When running all 20 together, they randomly uncoupled at different points of the train during a session. I can see the down side now of plastic springs vs. metal - they can get fatigue and no longer maintain characteristics of a spring. The closure finger spring, in this case, could not keep the train coupled - a total deal breaker. Inability to center a coupler is also not good but may only be a bother when trying to couple cars, if it fails. I think the closure spring is thin on the older McHenry's and more prone to fatigue.
It is my understanding that Athearn discontinued those types of McHenries some time ago and now use metal springs in couplers equipped with Athearn rolling stock.
riogrande5761 jecorbett Most of the time the closure spring is installed. I buy the bulk packs of #148 and there will usually be a few in the package that have lost the spring. They include replacement springs so apparently KD realizes that to be the case. It's been quite a while since I bought #5s but it is my memory that they would occasionally need the spring replaced as well. If I were to guess, I'd say about 1 in 20 will have lost their closure spring. Every once in a while I need to re-install a closure spring. I've found what works well enough for me is to take an X-Acto #11 pointy blade and insert the tip into one end of the spring, then put the other end onto one of the posts, lastly put the end with the blade over the other post and pull the blade out. I'm not the most coordinated but so far it works pretty well for me; now and then I have to make a 2nd try and once in a blue moon I loose a spring but I always keep the spares I get from packages and haven't run out so far.
jecorbett Most of the time the closure spring is installed. I buy the bulk packs of #148 and there will usually be a few in the package that have lost the spring. They include replacement springs so apparently KD realizes that to be the case. It's been quite a while since I bought #5s but it is my memory that they would occasionally need the spring replaced as well. If I were to guess, I'd say about 1 in 20 will have lost their closure spring.
Most of the time the closure spring is installed. I buy the bulk packs of #148 and there will usually be a few in the package that have lost the spring. They include replacement springs so apparently KD realizes that to be the case. It's been quite a while since I bought #5s but it is my memory that they would occasionally need the spring replaced as well. If I were to guess, I'd say about 1 in 20 will have lost their closure spring.
Every once in a while I need to re-install a closure spring. I've found what works well enough for me is to take an X-Acto #11 pointy blade and insert the tip into one end of the spring, then put the other end onto one of the posts, lastly put the end with the blade over the other post and pull the blade out. I'm not the most coordinated but so far it works pretty well for me; now and then I have to make a 2nd try and once in a blue moon I loose a spring but I always keep the spares I get from packages and haven't run out so far.
I use a similar technique with a small jeweler's screwdriver. Works pretty well but still I get a lot of jumpers. I'm glad KD supplies plenty of extra springs. I've tried using a stand alone magifying glass as well but I find it distorts my depth perception and so hurts more than it helps.