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Where Good Wood for Benchwork Comes from - Via Railroad from NZ (plus a boat ride)

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Where Good Wood for Benchwork Comes from - Via Railroad from NZ (plus a boat ride)
Posted by mlehman on Thursday, November 19, 2015 10:07 PM

I recently found some exceptionally nice wood when working on a project for my wife, adding on some bookcases and a system of catwalks to keep our 3 cats from getting completely on each others nerves this winter. Part of the project was building 2 catwalks, like this 12' long one made of a 1x6 and 1x4 T-ed together, very much like an L-girder.

It actually created a very short hall by extending the bookcases to the door between the LR and dining room. You can see the beautiful knot-free Select Pine grading on display here.

It comes from New Zealand and I found it at Menards. A recent thread here got to discussing wood grading for benchwork. I thought it was nice, but probably a bit pricey for benchwork wood, but I just can't quit bragging on how good this stuff is. Others said not at all, it would be great for benchwork, as it makes things easy to have straight, clean lumber, well worth the cost. I noted I'd composed a peaen to this NZ stuff and wanted to ask our friend JaBear if any of it might be hauled by rail, but my computer ate it early one morning last week...

Turns out another NZ resident forum member, Bill "bagal" of Dunedin, NZ knew that yes, considerable lumber on the North Island is hauled by RR, offering up a video and noting this was up near where Bear lives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6GTU8j0cGqQ

Sweet! Thanks, Bill! BTW, the wood grading threard is here: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/251971.aspx

So this is a New Zealand logging RR thread (not a cat furniture thread, although I gotta do something with a history degreeStick out tongue .) Bear or others may be able to help here, but feel free to add to an interesting topic that has a few American connections, because geared locos were used in the past there, Shays and a Climax, IIRC. Maybe someone can set that straight after I mangled it?

I'm curious if logging RRs ended, only to be revived by modern demand.?

Are any NZ logging RR models available?

What about links and/or exhibit lines?

What gauges?

Are these farmed trees or wild?

Etc, etc, inquiring mind want to know.Big Smile

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, November 20, 2015 2:00 AM
Gidday Mike, pleased that “we” could sell you a good product. It is a little ironic as I mentioned, a while back, that the decent straight plank of “clear” timber for my ferry hull came from Chile!!
It’s not surprising that NZ grown timber is available in the States as the likes of Rayonier have stakes here, and the Harvard University Endowment Fund, and a Canadian Pension Fund have shares in forestry ownership.
I work on the fringes of the timber industry, so a little knowledge from me could be a dangerous thing!! I will have to refer to my copy of “The Era of Bush Tramways in New Zealand” by Paul Mahoney, (heck!!!! $ 932.14 on Amazon!!! I think not!!), to give definitive answers but these is just a quick replies and I will expand further as long as I don’t start boring everyone to tears.
mlehman
Shays and a Climax,
No Shays and only one “Heisler”.
mlehman
I'm curious if logging RRs ended, only to be revived by modern demand.?
No, though the “Murupara Branch, the only current logging line that Bill Bagal linked to was a relative late comer.
mlehman
Are any NZ logging RR models available?
Basically the domain of very keen scratch builders.
 
 
mlehman
What gauges?
Because virtually all the bush tramways were 3’6” gauge from a modelling perspective, Sn3.
mlehman
Are these farmed trees or wild?
Mainly farmed and mainly Monterey Pine (Pinus Radiata).
 
Whakatane Board Mills Fa250, 0-6-2T circa 1955. 
 
 
When the timber industry booms more head end power is required. Murupara, November 2012.
 
Cheers, the Bear.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by mlehman on Friday, November 20, 2015 4:12 AM

Bear,

Thanks so much for the info. Guess I was way off on geared locos. Nothing wroing with having a Heisler instead.

That book sound interesting, but the price...!Surprise

I'll have to give the video, etc a closer look in the morning, falling asleep...Sleep

Mike Lehman

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Posted by mlehman on Friday, November 20, 2015 8:46 AM

Wow, Bear, that was a great video. A somewhat familiar, but in the end a bit oddly different landscape than what I'm used to when I think of logging. Those railcars are to die for, very cool. Neat little layout. I don't recall seeing it in the NG&SL Gazette, but maybe my memory is playing tricks on me.

But you don't need old or steam to go logging. That lineup of tough looking diesels shows you can do modern logging, too, if you please (and don't have a crew rounding up the diesel salesman for a lynching, a la John Allen Wink .)

Makes a lot of sense that the gauge, 3'6", was the same for everything, showing a practical side. It sounds like an odd gauge, but it's one that was used on one of the more extensive, but little known NG systems in North American, the Newfoundland Railway (consolidated into CN after WWII.)

A great logging tradition to be sure, and one where anyone might be able to still participate in when building that next piece of nice square benchwork. Look for the tag that says NZ Select Pine.

Thanks again!

Other contributions to this tale of logging railroads far away are gratefully solicted.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, November 20, 2015 12:45 PM
Gidday Mike, a link that you may find of interest...

Cheers, the Bear.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by mlehman on Friday, November 20, 2015 12:53 PM

Bear,

Neat pic.Thanks!

So I take it what we call loggers are "bushmen" in NZ?

Or is bushmen a more generic term, but often applied to loggers?

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, November 21, 2015 12:17 AM

mlehman
So I take it what we call loggers are "bushmen" in NZ?

Gidday Mike, if you have time, and several mugs of coffee or something, to follow that www. teara.govt link through you will see that in the early days it was all native timber that was logged. Here the native forests are called “Bush”, therefore “Bushmen” = “Loggers”= “Lumberjacks”.  However the introduced farmed trees are called “forests” so now the term “Forestry Workers” is more common, though any forestry worker worth his (or her) salt prefers to be known as a Bushman.
AAAaaaarrghhh!!!! Me and MY Big Mouth!!!! Bang Head Bang Head I now have taken the time to refer to the aforementioned Paul Mahoney’s “The Era of Bush Tram in New Zealand” and have found that seven Heisler and seven Climax geared steam locomotives were imported into New Zealand. The Heisler I was referring to was the “Price V” which is to be found along with other indigenous designs here...........
And here’s another link to the Sn3 “Kerosine Creek”.

Cheers, the Bear.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by bagal on Sunday, November 22, 2015 3:57 AM

I was just going to mention the Climax and Heisler locos but Bear beat me to it. Many of the bush locos were ex NZGR rod locos and there were a number of locally built geared locos. One loco I find quiet interesting is an American Locomotive Co 2-4-4-2 Mallet. It is in preservation but I am not sure if it is currently operational but several of the Heisler and Climax ones are.

At least one of the larger bush tramways is now a cycle trail and it includes a spiral loop.

Bill

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Posted by "JaBear" on Sunday, November 22, 2015 4:29 AM
Evening Bill, I believe the Mallet is currently in storage at the Glenbrook Vintage Railway.
Here’s a linkto the loco......
...and a photo of a 1:24 scale model scratchbuilt by a chap from Taupo.
Cheers, the Bear.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by mlehman on Sunday, November 22, 2015 9:41 AM

Bear and Bill,

Had a chance to digest the NZ geared loco link Bear sent earlier. Wow, now that's a bunch of fascinating locos I knew nothing about. Lumber was clearly a pretty big part of the economy with so many builders involved over such a long time.

Is the marvelously big-footed "Ollie's tractor" prototype or a modeler's creative invention?

 Who would've thought the Little River 2-4-4-2 had a distant cousin?

Lots of neat Great Stuff out there to exploreBig Smile

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by "JaBear" on Sunday, November 22, 2015 7:19 PM
Gidday Mike, I deliberated how many sites I should link to at once and decided that as there was a fair bit of information in each link, I didn’t want to waterlog you, or for that matter anyone else having a look, with too much coffee in one sitting.Ick! Laugh
Here’s some information on Ollie Smiths creations..... 
 
 
The one up at the Mamaku Village now sits under a purpose built open sided shed. I took these 3 years ago....
 
And while this is a generic rail tractor site, it does contain what’s left of the bush lokies.....
 
Enjoy your mug of coffee or “whatever”,
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, November 22, 2015 10:17 PM

 Holy cow, I would have for sure said that double ender thing with C-C trucks was a figment of the modelr's imagination, but there it is, real live picture of the actual thing.

                          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by mlehman on Monday, November 23, 2015 1:26 AM

Randy,

Even more amazing...It seemed at first that yes, a very active imagination and one heck of a junk pile out back resulted in such an offering. But it was part of a line of similar machines, some in multiples and some distinctively singular. And that was just one builder's production.

Bear,

I guess people got pretty inventive when the supply line is as long as it is to New Zealand. Creatively crazy!Bow

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
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Posted by "JaBear" on Monday, November 23, 2015 4:37 AM

rrinker
 Holy cow, I would have for sure said that double ender thing with C-C trucks was a figment of the modeler's imagination,......

I think, Randy, that it could be used as an example in the “There is a prototype for everything” debate!
Some more information on R21, the double ender, from Paul Mahoneys’ “The Era of the Bush Tram in New Zealand”.
“It was completed in 1952 when it became Gamman’s mill shunter*, taking sawn timber rakes to the Mamaku station.Chev engines were installed at both ends, but only one at a time used for either direction, driving all twelve wheels. It was also used on tram construction and even on log trains as backup......it was last used in 1977 to pull up Gamman’s tram.
*switcher.
About 20 years ago I was briefly involved in the possibility of restoring one of Ollie Smiths machines. We never actually established which one it was and, apart from money, we had everything bar a cab, engine, gearbox and drive shaft. The big stumbling block even back then was that what later became OSH was having fits over the exposed external chain drive.
 
“I guess people got pretty inventive when the supply line is as long as it is to New Zealand.”.
 
In this day and age of the internet and air freight, (on the occasions when I import aircraft parts, they can take longer in NZ Customs than the flights from the US) we tend to forget what was known as “The tyranny of distance”, and accordingly are losing that “creatively crazy”. We took pride in the ability of looking outside the box and what makes it worse is that officialdom is actively suppressing the “#8 wire and binder twine” mentality.  
Before I start foaming at the mouth, I’ll calm down by having a look at this short video of Ollie Smiths White Jigger which has been restored.

 

Cheers, the Bear. Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, November 23, 2015 6:56 AM

 That one looks like one of several of the "Galloping Geese" that the RGS had. Perfectly normal. And the ones that are essentially over the road trucks with railroad wheels applied, there's even modern equivalents of those. But to weld two cars back to back and then put railroad wheels under the whole thing - and not just railroad wheels, but 3 axle trucks at each end.... must be the air down there in NZ.

              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by mlehman on Monday, November 23, 2015 9:01 AM

Bear,

That White railtruck looks like it was cruising on the best track it may have ever seen. I suspect MOW in the bush was somewhat more iffy. Looks like everyone was having great fun.

Randy,

New Zealand's experience is probably no different than elsewhere. We've our own share of oddities. It's just a much bigger place in the US, so things ended up rather more standardized. In NZ, I suspect the market was pretty much satisfied by what was created initially.

Gotta take the decline of steam into account also. The trickle of production in the prewar period opened wider once war surplus was available and labor with skills to build such items became more freely available with demobilization. The supply of affordable secondhand steam dried up with the war (and it couldn't be used everywhere, thus the demand for specialized logging locos). After 1945, that and the scrapping of anything not immediately useful in the war effort meant that it was either a very pricey, likely imported diesel -- or something more inventive.

Then there's the fact that the parts supply, err, the "junk yard" tends to determine how you think of designing such critters. Throw in a healthy dose of war surplus material and it was easy to get creative.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
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Posted by "JaBear" on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 3:53 AM

mlehman
New Zealand's experience is probably no different than elsewhere.

What didn’t help matters and I think it applied to all new machinery purchases from off shore, but not only did you have to have the money but you had to have actual Overseas Funds!! This was phased out in the very early 70s.
Cheers, the Bear.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by mlehman on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:26 AM

What didn’t help matters and I think it applied to all new machinery purchases from off shore, but not only did you have to have the money but you had to have actual Overseas Funds!! This was phased out in the very early 70s.

Ouch,

Yeah, that would put a premium on local inventiveness and undoubtedly contributed to the knack of turning sow's ears into silk, errr, wooden pursesLaugh

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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