I bought a Walthers cornerstone kit and I wonder about the "preferred methods" of appyin the styrene cement to long wall edges as well as small pieces to preventsoftening of visible areas. In other words, how do you assemble a plastic kit?
73
Bruce in the Peg
Hi Bruce:
First, what type of glue are you planning on using. If you are thinking of using the old Testors gooey stuff in a tube, don't! It is messy, hard to apply neatly and any excess will leave a mark.
I use Tamiya's Extra Thin liquid cement because it barely leaves a trace on the styrene, and even that disappears once the structure is painted. However, if you are planning on doing a lot of scratch building, you can buy a can of MEK (Methyl Ethyl Keytone) which has about 20 times the amount for just a few dollars more. I believe there are other solvents that will work just as well but I'm not familiar with them. The solvent cement works by dissolving the surface of the styrene so the two pieces are 'welded' together. The joints are quite strong.
The way I use the thin cement for assembling longer joints is to first paint the mating surfaces with a couple of coats of the cement. The brush that comes with the Tamiya cement is only useful for applying small amounts so I use a small paint brush. The cement will make the surfaces tacky which allows you to put them together and they will more or less stay in place. Then I paint the non visible side of the joint with more cement. That further softens the styrene so the joint can be pushed tight. You don't need to flood the surface, just get it wet. Drying time is fairly quick but you want the joint to be reasonably solid before adding the next piece. That will only take a few minutes.
Getting the joints square is important. I have a couple of rectangular steel blocks which I use to hold the walls square to each other while the joint stiffens.
Ventilation is important too, especially if you are using larger quantities on big projects.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Until they changed the formula for lacquer thinner, I used it as my preferred styrene cement and bought it (and used it) by the gallon. Because its new composition has little effect of styrene, I've switched to MEK (methyl-ethyl-ketone). It's a very effective cement for styrene, but evapourates much faster than the old-style lacquer thinner. This makes it a little more difficult when working on long joints or over large areas, as its volatile components may be gone before the two surfaces can be brought together. When possible, position the parts to be joined as desired (use clamps or other aids to keep things aligned) then use a suitably-sized brush to apply the solvent to the inside (unseen) side of the joint. The same applies when adding small detail parts to larger surfaces, but they can often be held by hand or using tweezers or pliers - the bonding occurs quickly, so you don't have to wait too long. Such joints will continue to off-gas for a short time, with the joint becoming stronger - once cured, the two pieces of plastic are virtually one.
Blind Bruce ....the "preferred methods" of appyin the styrene cement to long wall edges as well as small pieces to preventsoftening of visible areas....
Sometimes softening of the edges of a wall joint is desireable, especially if the parts are ill-fitting as supplied. For these, I tape some sandpaper face-up to the workbench, then drag or push the bevelled joints across it to sharpen the angle where they're meant to contact. (pushing and pulling usually results in imparting a curve to the length of the bevel, not at all condusive to a good fit). That way, only the outer (visible) faces make contact. By softening them with solvent cement, and using square strip styrene (.100" or .125" for large structures) on the inside of the joint, the assembly will have strength and, with the softened surfaces squished together, a good finished appearance. Let the squished part harden fully (overnight at least) then use a knife and/or files and sandpaper to clean up the oozed-out material and re-carve any damaged detail, such as mortar lines.
Many of Walthers Cornerstone kits make great fodder for kitbashing, too, so unless you bought the kit for the specific use it represents, don't be afraid to use it in any capacity which you feel it might be appropriate. I have 15 Cornerstone structures on the original portion of my layout, but only one has been built as the instructions showed, and only two are in use for the purpose shown on the Walthers box.
Wayne
Also, a small carpenters square is a handy tool to have around; use it to keep the corners square if the building does not have a base or you do not want to use the base. A good size is a square that is 12" to 18" on a side.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
I personally like the Testors liquid cement in a bottle. It comes with an applicator brush built into the cap, which is convenient.
I seldom have much luck just gluing together corners, so on simple kits where two edges come together I like to put a strip of 1/8 or 3/16 square balsa wood inside the corner. I do this with CA glue. This gives me a much larger glue surface, which holds the corner together better, and also a light block so that any interior lighting won't "leak" out the corner.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Bruce,
To join walls together I like Ambroid ProWeld which is applied with a little brush but for small parts and generally use I prefer Faller Plastic Cement. The Faller cement has a needle applicator that I find easy to control and I just like the way that stuff works.
I'm sure you will get a lot of opinions as it seems different people prefer different cements.
I have put together several Conerstone kits and find they go together quite well.
CN Charliel
My favorite styrene cement is Micro Weld, a Microscale product. Dries slightly slower than some of the others making it a bit more forgiving than some of the others. It is billed as non toxic and has a slight citrus odor. I use small paint brushes or sometimes micro brushes to apply.
The other tips about keeping things square are good ones.
I use Pro-weld, had a supply as it is now gone but there are others that claim to be the same thing and others say there is no difference, one is by Squadron. I use a small paintbrush, others use flow control devise (had no luck there myself). Don't use balsa to beef up corners, just glue in some extra styrene, I tend to brace where needed for stength. Also the old stringy stuff still has a use in small amounts for holding things in place till you glue but stince it is only non stringy for a few seconds out of the tube, there is a lot of waste. One place I use this is like for rooftop details or on gutters, I may tack a corner, let dry some and then go wth the liquid using the other glue as a third hand and in fact reglueing the original area once done (fixes any string you may have gotten).
All I have is liquid testors in a small bottle with no brush. I would like to buy some slower drying stuff if it is available in Canada. The one with a needle injector sounds good too. When I try to use a brush I usually miss the mark and apply cement in the wrong place. A metal needle would allow me to feel the point of contact before actually dispensing (true?)
CNCharlie I like Ambroid ProWeld
I like that also, but can't seem to find it. Do you have a source?
Thanks
I believe MicroMark sells a Pro Weld that claims to be the same as Ambroid.
Bruce, which Cornerstone kit are you working on?
Hello All,
Have you tried Micro Mark?
I use their "Same Stuff" plastic weld liquid for my styrene applications. They also cary lots of applicators from pipets to neelde-eye applicators.
The supplied applicator in the "Refill" bottle is a brush attached to the cap. They also have a "Touch-N-Flow" applicator; looks like a pipet, for almost three times as much.
Because of the "capillary" action of this solvent you can dry-fit the two sections to be cemented, apply the solvent to the joints and it will bond the two pieces together.
The "active" ingredient in the "Same Stuff" is methylene chloride not MEK. Personally I've never used MEK to join styrene but other have said it works just as well and is probably cheaper by the liter or gallon than the styrene specific model preparations.
I'm not sure about shipping restrictions or cost to north of the border.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Not sure if this is the best way, but I use a combo of Model Master Liquid Cement and Ambroid Pro Weld.
I've found that Walthers building kits tend to work better with Liquid Cement. Pro Weld works great on Everygreen styrene.
Although it looks like Pro Weld isn't made anymore
MisterBeasley ...on simple kits where two edges come together I like to put a strip of 1/8 or 3/16 square balsa wood inside the corner.
...on simple kits where two edges come together I like to put a strip of 1/8 or 3/16 square balsa wood inside the corner.
I do the same thing, although I use 1/8" square styrene.
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
Forget all of the advice that you have received so far.
The adhesive of choice is Testors Model Master Liquid Cement in the black plastic bottle with the metal needle nose applicator.
http://www.amazon.com/Testor-Corp-Liquid-Cement-Plastics/dp/B0006N6ODS
It draws a clean line of cement where you want it to go. No mess, no dripping, no too fast drying, no stupid brush in the bottle cap.
Trust me, you will love it.
Rich
Alton Junction
Walther's kits are styrene plastic, for which a "plastic welder" cement is ideal. They come in small bottles with a brush in the cap, are water thin and water clear. There are a bunch of brand names. I have not noticed much difference between the various brands. After going thru a LOT of $5 little bottles, I bought a quart can of MEK ($5) at the paint dept of Wally Mart and refilled a few little bottles. The stuff works by dissolving the styrene into goo, and then evaporating, which turns the styrene hard again. The bond can be as strong as the virgin plastic. It has no gap filling ability. Where the styrene touches, it bonds, any slight air gap and it doesn't bond. It's quick, the stuff evaporates in a minute or two, at which time the joint will stand light handling. Give it overnight to dry good and hard. Paint on the glue joint can mess things up. The stuff is active enough to bite thru many paints, but not all. Best practice is to do the glueing before painting.
Apply the stuff to the back side (the does not show side) of the joint with a small brush and let capillary action draw it into the joint. If you mess up and get it on the show surfaces of the model, don't panic, just let it evaporate and it probably won't leave marks.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
After opening the kit, I noticed that the windows were of a different type of plastic (or so it seems). Do the windows use the same kind of cement? I know these are anal questions but I have only worked with wood previously.
The windows are almost certainly made of styrene unless they are VERY thin and flexible. Assuming styrene, yes use a liquid styrene cement. Put the window in place and put a small amount of the liquid on a spot where the "glass" and the frame or wall touch. Capillary action will wick the cement to other contact points.
If not styrene I suggest using canopy glue. It comes out of the bottle or tube white but dries clear.
Just curious...which Cornerstone kit?
I use a "Touch N Flow" and have never regretted it for a moment. That plus any brand of very thin plastic cement and you're in business.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Where would I get a touch and flo?
Roger, I am starting the "reliable warehouse and storage" kit
Yo Blind! BTW, don't feel compelled to cement the entire "long joint" all at one time. Start by just tacking each end of the joint. Get the ends right, then work your way down the joint an inch or two at a time. Much easier to control the alignment & application of cement if you don't rush it. No hurry. It ain't goin' anywhere once you have it tacked at the top & bottom. Keep the chore manageable.
richhotrainThe adhesive of choice is Testors Model Master Liquid Cement in the black plastic bottle with the metal needle nose applicator.
Sorry, but I must disagree. I'm using that right now for a project I'm working on. It works fine if you are able to apply it to one of the joints and then hold the parts together.
But it is too thick if the plan is to hold the joint together, apply the cement to the outside of the joint, and hope that the cement is sucked into the joint to form a bond. Ambroid Pro-Weld, Micro-Mark Same Stuff, and Testors Plastic Cement (in the bottle) are all better alternatives.
Concerning the Touch and Flo applicator. I had purchased two of those. One of them never worked. The other one failed after awhile, but that was probably my fault. You have to make sure that you use it in a fresh bottle of the watery-type cement. Any impurities in the cement will clog the Touch and Flo. For example, I try to use a small brush to apply the cement. When the brush touches the joint, sometimes "stuff" from the joint transfers to the brush, and then transfers from the brush to the bottle. This especially happens when working on an item that has previously been painted.
And forget about using the brush applicators that come with the cement bottle caps. They aren't worth a darn for any fine work.
Blind Bruce After opening the kit, I noticed that the windows were of a different type of plastic (or so it seems). Do the windows use the same kind of cement? ....
After opening the kit, I noticed that the windows were of a different type of plastic (or so it seems). Do the windows use the same kind of cement? ....
Blind Bruce ....I know these are anal questions but I have only worked with wood previously.
....I know these are anal questions but I have only worked with wood previously.
maxman richhotrain The adhesive of choice is Testors Model Master Liquid Cement in the black plastic bottle with the metal needle nose applicator. But it is too thick if the plan is to hold the joint together, apply the cement to the outside of the joint, and hope that the cement is sucked into the joint to form a bond. Ambroid Pro-Weld, Micro-Mark Same Stuff, and Testors Plastic Cement (in the bottle) are all better alternatives.
richhotrain The adhesive of choice is Testors Model Master Liquid Cement in the black plastic bottle with the metal needle nose applicator.
I used to always use the old Testors orange tube model airplane glue. I still do sometimes because it melts the plastic together permenantly, but it is a stringy mess unless you constantly wipe the tube off with a paper towel.
My choice now is medium strength Zap a Gap. It is CA (super glue). I don’t place a drop on the part, I place the part onto a drop that is barely coming out of the bottle because you only need a partial drop to hold. It doesn’t melt the plastic. It just glues things together with just a drop.
Bruce
If you get any of the plastic cement on visible areas of the model, DON'T PANIC! Resist the temptation to touch it, wipe it off, or in any other way mess with it, and just let it dry completely. As long as you leave it alone, the styrene details will reharden with the only "damage" being a slight sheen where the glue was. A sanding stick or jewelers file can then be safely used to lessen the sheen. Once weathered and a flat clear coat is applied, you'll never see the mistake.
Hornblower
Blind Bruce I bought a Walthers cornerstone kit and I wonder about the "preferred methods" of appyin the styrene cement to long wall edges as well as small pieces to preventsoftening of visible areas. In other words, how do you assemble a plastic kit?
I have found that the edges of Cornerstone buildings aren't square. After squaring them up, I use right angle clamps from Micromark.com
Right Clamps
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
wdcrvr....my question is about using a small paint brush to apply the glue. After you use the brush, do you have to clean it with something so that you can use it again?
I usually just dip it into the same solvent, swish it around a bit, then carefully wipe it dry with a paper towel or rag.
Don't limit yourself to only a small brush: some jobs require it, others need something bigger, so size the brush to the job.
I use contact cement to affix printed building flats to styrene backing, and have found that the contact cement, even though it's solvent-based, will adhere better to the styrene if it's first prepped with a solvent which softens its surface. For that, I use a 1" or 2" brush.
For rough styrene construction which will not be seen on the finished model, like these interior partitions which give the structure strength and help to align the roof, a 1/2" brush delivers more solvent to long or wide joint surfaces: