rrinker Compete with itself? How is a forum between readers (and plenty of non-readers - not everyone here is a subsciber, nor do you have to be to post here) competing with a magazine format which is "Here is material - take a look" with no two way dialog really possible? Sure you can write a letter to the editor, but that's not two way discourse. Frankly, if the forum here is that low quality and useless to you, why are you even bothering to comment on this?
Compete with itself? How is a forum between readers (and plenty of non-readers - not everyone here is a subsciber, nor do you have to be to post here) competing with a magazine format which is "Here is material - take a look" with no two way dialog really possible? Sure you can write a letter to the editor, but that's not two way discourse.
Frankly, if the forum here is that low quality and useless to you, why are you even bothering to comment on this?
You're making my point. People are coming here who don't buy, subscribe to, or read the magazine. Subscribers are pretty easy to identify, at least at MR. Given the various signon names, I question whether there's more than a small percentage of subscribers on this forum. This would presumably be a good question for Kalmbach to staff out. There's no good way to know how many visitors who don't subscribe buy the mag, but again, I wouldn't be optimistic. In effect, MR is "selling" a product that non-readers can feel is nearly as good as buying the mag. It's competing with itself. The "free on line mag" is different, because it equates hits with circulation, so it wants free hits no matter how dull the forum is over there.
As to why I'm commenting, all I can say is that I look at several forums, have dropped out of several, and tend to agree with Brakie and others who say traffic and interest are down. That topic was interesting, since I'd seen the same thing. But the next step is whether MR can benefit its paying customers by serving them rather than the freeloaders, diverting nonproductive assets to improve the paying product.
Back to the OP's question, I read all four MR forums, plus the Classic Trains forum.
I also am a registered member of two Yahoo forums: Wiring for DCC and NCE-DCC.
I am also a registered member of ModelRailroadForums.
Rich
Alton Junction
JOHN BRUCE III As to why I'm commenting, all I can say is that I look at several forums, have dropped out of several, and tend to agree with Brakie and others who say traffic and interest are down. That topic was interesting, since I'd seen the same thing. But the next step is whether MR can benefit its paying customers by serving them rather than the freeloaders, diverting nonproductive assets to improve the paying product.
Somewhat insulting to all the rest of your fellow forum members, don't you think?
JOHN BRUCE IIIWould MR pay for any posts or photos here in its print publications? This may be a key to declining interest -- the material isn't that worthwhile, often same old-same old from the same guys every week,.....
JOHN BRUCE IIIOn the other hand, why don't, say, Lou Sassi or Pelle Soeborg or other well-known MR authors post here?
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
You're also making the assumption that if it were a requirement to subscribe, or if this forum just disappeared, all the people who currently do not subscribe to the magazine would then subscribe. I highly doubt that, they'd just move to another forum. There are at least two good ones (like I said, I don;t have the time to devote to full participating in all of them, and I don't believe in half way participation either), one associated with a free magazine and one unaffiliated with any publication. Amazingly, they continue to thrive - the unaffiliated one has been around since long before Kalmbach offered any form of online communications other than opening up email addresses. Kalmbach's revenue would not increase if the only option was the magazine and no forum. I'd say quite the opposite, people would be upset to lose these forums and perhaps not bother to renew their subscriptions.
And if you take notice of the subscription threads that pop up once in a while, a lot of the people here who are not subscribers DO buy issues at the newsstand when they have something of interest. When they do that, they are paying on average double the price for that issue than I do per issue with a long term subscription. So freeloaders, they are not.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I usually to a quick scan of the activity lists (sometimes there is an interesting thread on a Forum I don't normally look at), then I look at my Discussions, followed by the Model Railroader: General Discussion, Layout building, Prototype Information, the Trains General Discussion and Classic Trains forums several times a day to see if there ar any threads of interest.
I also look at the other Trains forums, but less often.
I will often will look at threads with uninformative titles so see if they might be of interest.
While there are many the threads are repettious (especially the question threads), they somtimes do provide new information on a subject .
While not everyday, there are some posts which have spured me to spend some time reasearching in my book collection and on the Net (often on topic I would not have thought of otherwise). This is an activity I enjoy.
I also like to look at posts that have no responces after several days. If the pose a question, I can sometimes find an answer.
I have started very few threads. The ones I have started have usually provided railroad information from a non-railroad site.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
I have been in this hobby for over 40 years but these forums really don't offer very much. All I have seen is when somebody does make a comment it seems that too many have negative views of what they like or don't like.
This is the very reason I don't comment most of the time. I have tired of all the so called experts and how they do it, who in the hell cares.
I tried earlier this year to comment more often and starting several threads but it seems if I don't do it your way I'm wrong.
So now I just check in every now and then and it is still the same, the same old so called experts and more useless posts then I care to read.
Btw, I am a subscriber since the late 60's
Have fun I'm out!
DAVID FORTNEYThis is the very reason I don't comment most of the time. I have tired of all the so called experts and how they do it, who in the hell cares.
Maybe those that asks the question wants a knowledgeable reply instead of do whatever you want,its your railroad? Maybe they don't want a answer that's overly complicated? Experts is well known to complicate the simple while overstating the obvious.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I really don't see a lot of that so-called elitism around here, where the replies are "this is how you MUST do it to be correct" On the contrary, there are plenty of "It's your railroad and you cna do what you like, but..." type of replies. That's not being elitist. I don't know about everyone, but after 40+ years in this hobby I'm still learning things. My methods have changed over the years as I learned some newer or better way of doing things, and there have certainly been things ADVERTISED as newer and better that I've tried and abandoned because they WEREN'T better. Some people want the best scenery they can build, and will run anything through it. Some people want every chalk mark on every freight car to be exactly as it appeared on a certain date, and don;t care if the industry they are spotting that car at is simply some carbaord taped together "for now". And everywhere in between. Who's right and who's wrong? There seems to be a wide diversity here. I don't really see much preaching of one way of participating in this hooby over another. People used to write letters saying columns like Tony Koester's were liek that - THIS is how you run a model railroad, anything else is wrong. Tony never wrote or insinuated such things. He changed from proto-freelancing to modeling a specific prototype. Does that make the AM "wrong"? Not in the least. The stuff he wrote about the AM is just as valid as the stuff he writes about the NKP. And never does he say if you don't to it his way, you aren't a 'real' model railroader. I see these forums the same way.
rrinkerWho's right and who's wrong?
Nobody..Such things is made up of one's modeling style and many has forgotten that especially on forums.
As a example.. During the county fair I was as happy as a two headed woodpecker in a bucket of worms running my old BB GP35/GP35/GP7 consist as I was my Atlas Kato RS11 consist or GP7/RS11 consist pulling my old BB and Roundhouse freight cars.
I'm sure there are those on this forum that will smirk while reading this reply because my models isn't today's top tier models..
I have several top tier RTR freight cars and 5 Atlas Silver series locomotives tuck safely away in my storage totes..
DAVID FORTNEY I have been in this hobby for over 40 years but these forums really don't offer very much. All I have seen is when somebody does make a comment it seems that too many have negative views of what they like or don't like. This is the very reason I don't comment most of the time. I have tired of all the so called experts and how they do it, who in the hell cares. I tried earlier this year to comment more often and starting several threads but it seems if I don't do it your way I'm wrong. So now I just check in every now and then and it is still the same, the same old so called experts and more useless posts then I care to read. Btw, I am a subscriber since the late 60's Have fun I'm out!
It must have been a bad month for Kalmbach.
Sorry to say, David, if you really feel that way, then you should just go away. For those of us who have been members of the forum for longer than two years, we have contributed much and gained much from interaction with other forum members.
Good Morning,
I've been an MR since the mid 50s, and on this forum for some time, and participated in all the different ones. Yes, I'm also a long time subscriber to Kalmbach's publications and will continue to be.
This forum in particular has helped me immensely. In fact, I believe I would not be into the hobby today if it wasn't for this forum. It has been invaluable to me, and obviously to others as well.
Do I care if a fellow poster is not a Kalmbach subscriber? No, I don't. I do think it would benefit him/her, but this forum is open to the public, and not some elite private club.
One more thing..... over the years I've come to be good friends with a couple of folks thru this forum. To me, that is priceless!
So if you think this forum is a waste, and no one uses it much, then I urge you to either adjust your attitude or go elsewhere.
Otherwise,
ENJOY
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
richhotrainSorry to say, David, if you really feel that way, then you should just go away. For those of us who have been members of the forum for longer than two years, we have contributed much and gained much from interaction with other forum members. Rich
I agree.. I know if I wasn't happy on any forum I would move on in fact I've done that before.
On the other hand there are those that wants to see only "Rah,Rah,good job,well done" type replies and no topics on the finer points of modeling operation,prototypical information,thought provoking discussions etc..
One forum I was on had a excellent discussion on advanced layout design following prototype practices and one member asked "What does that have to do with model trains and layout planing? Palm slap!
JOHN BRUCE III The OP and some of the replies are suggesting that the value of forums is declining overall.
The OP and some of the replies are suggesting that the value of forums is declining overall.
Thats your call, not mine. I've been on forums since I was a freshman in college in 1977 and have enjoyed forum participation since then. As the old saying goes, YMMV. If forums aren't someones thing, one can move on to things that they do enjoy. Easy enough.
I can't speculate on the reasons (although the company seems to be struggling), but the other major forum, sponsored by a manufacturer, was discontinued in 2012.
That was Atlas RR forums - the company gave their reasons in a notification - which is probably still there if you care to look for it. One of the members created a replacement forum called Atlas Rescue Forum in a similar format where most of the old members migrated too and continue to be very active. There is a group of very talented modelers who regulary display their work in the weekly Sunday Photo fun and lots of discussion about the hobby and models. No forum is perfect but overall it's been pretty good!
I keep wondering why Kalmbach keeps putting resources into the forums here, which fewer and fewer people seem to find worthwhile, when equivalent resources put into MRVP, which is a quality product that people pay for, would be more productive. Let's keep in mind that the forums are "free", and the posters aren't paid for their contributions. We're all getting what we pay for here.
As for worth while, I'm not sure everyone would agree with you on that - but if thats your personal oppinion, naturally you are free to find resources which meet your needs. Those who enjoy and benefit will stay around as long as the forum remains open and active.
One thing I've noticed from recent threads is that a fairly low number of posters even buy or subscribe to the magazine. If people get the impression that they don't need the mag, they can just look at the photo threads and ask questions, eventually Kalmbach won't even be able to maintain the forum. Second, this forum comes out under the MR logo. I'm concerned that this tends to devalue the work that people like Besougloff, Grivno, Popp, Otte, etc actually produce under the sponsorship of MR. When I go to MRVP, I want to see more, which is one reason I'd prefer that MR redirect forum resources to MRVP. What I'm seeing here is that a significant number of people don't care if they see less on the forum.
Second, this forum comes out under the MR logo. I'm concerned that this tends to devalue the work that people like Besougloff, Grivno, Popp, Otte, etc actually produce under the sponsorship of MR. When I go to MRVP, I want to see more, which is one reason I'd prefer that MR redirect forum resources to MRVP. What I'm seeing here is that a significant number of people don't care if they see less on the forum.
Again, I don't believe many would agree with your assessment on those things. I think MR Magazine and it's services and forums are appreciated by many model railroad enthusiasts, despite a few detractors that inevidably come along.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
The Forum is a finger on the pulse of the Model Railroading Community. It probably gives better feedback than "Letters to the Editor" ever did.
Topics brought up on the Forum are often expounded on in the colunms of their next months issue.
They probably also gain some subcribers from people who were unaware of the magazine until the found the Forum.