i was just wondering, wouldn't it be great if there was an ho scale version of a locomotive that burned a non toxic fuel inside miniature engines, and used this for power? i think it would be more prototypical, because on the big prototype there is no such thing as electrified rails that power a real locomotive. the prototype uses diesel engines that turn electric turbines. in a model, it would be more prototypical if they burned a light, non toxic fuel such as some kind of bio-naptha made from vegatable oil, and had a remote control to power things like the throttle and brakes. any thoughts?
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Not sure a tiny internal combustion engine capable of doing such things would be cheap enough to see wide use, even if available. And any time you burn something inside, there is that carbon monoxide thing...
Don't let your roster kill you.
Then there's keeping it in repair.
You'd be better to stick with steam, as there have been HO scale live steam made and run. Again, would need some ventilation. And there's issues with refueling etc. Unless you're running battery-powered dead rail, you never run out of fuel with electricity.
In other words, you're making a very specialized request. I suspect you'll have to DIY, as it would seem to have very limited potential for commercialization.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Oh contrare,
there is electrified third rails on subways trains .
Just ask the Lion about that.
Johnboy out...............
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
For small internal combustion engines, check out what the flying aircraft model hobbyists have. Way back when, the smallest engine would just barely fit inside an HO diesel. Running, they were loud. Very loud. The fuel was active enough to eat paint, all except special model aircraft paint "dope". The fuel was a fire hazard, not something I would want my kids using in my basement. Outside perhaps OK, but a spilled can on the basement floor could set the house on fire. The little engines were cranky to start, and only ran well at full throttle. I suppose the technology might have improved since I played with it, which was a long time ago.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
David,
Yeah, completely forgot about the noise aspect. A single tiny little 12 or 16 cylinder should be a regular screamin' meemee. Lash four or five of them up and get the ear muffs out
That will certainly put an end to those late night op sessions when your life partner is fast asleep upsatirs.
Oh, and how are all these engines going to be started? Electric or pull-cord?
I think Hornby made an OO model of the Mallard steam engine that ran on live steam. Of course, the heater was powered by electricity from the rails, but it's still interesting!
If someone made a fully self contained fuel powered locomotive in HO, I wonder how it would be controlled? Maybe radio? I also wonder if it would have enough power to move a long train? Electric motors are much more efficient than something like steam or combustion, and a whole lot safer.
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JJRRwouldn't it be great if there was an ho scale version of a locomotive that burned a non toxic fuel inside miniature engines,
I believe that there was an article in MR about a steam loco that ran on dry ice. That might have been O scale, however.
maxmanI believe that there was an article in MR about a steam loco that ran on dry ice. That might have been O scale, however.
It was in the October 1949 issue. The builder converted Oscale locos to run on dry ice.
Joe
I remember that one! That was a fun read if a little impractical for most models today. I think there was also an article on using a small glow fuel engine to power diesel locomotives... Again, O scale or larger.
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
Darth Santa Fe I think Hornby made an OO model of the Mallard steam engine that ran on live steam. Of course, the heater was powered by electricity from the rails, but it's still interesting! If someone made a fully self contained fuel powered locomotive in HO, I wonder how it would be controlled? Maybe radio? I also wonder if it would have enough power to move a long train? Electric motors are much more efficient than something like steam or combustion, and a whole lot safer.
Yes. I remember that one too, or maybe some other one. It ran on alcohol. I believe it had no control. Just set the throtttle and let it go until it ran out of fuel.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
I suppose you could run a miniature steam engine using nuclear fuel...take a few of those radioactive chips some old smoke detectors used to use to create a pile and then set up your boilers. Speed could be controlled by rods...and you probably wouldn't need ditch lights...
bigpianoguy!
!
I wonder what colour the ditch lights would be? Also, how do you make them flash, unless of course you know how to control nuclear fision!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter bigpianoguy! ! I wonder what colour the ditch lights would be? Also, how do you make them flash, unless of course you know how to control nuclear fision! Dave
And then you need to cast the body shell in lead to shield the operators/viewers from the radiation. Won't be a weight problem for traction?
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
mlehmanOh, and how are all these engines going to be started? Electric or pull-cord?
Mike,
They would be started from the battery bank in the locomotive. You would have an electrical generator on the engine to generate the electric to be stored in the battery bank. There would also be an air generator for any air assisted needs, like braking and honking those tiny air horns. Once the tiny engines are started, it would be more cost efficient to leave them sitting in the basement idling while you went about your every day life. I guess we would need to install diesel exhaust systems in our basements so we don't die from carbon monoxide poisoning.
Robert H. Shilling II
JoeinPA maxman I believe that there was an article in MR about a steam loco that ran on dry ice. That might have been O scale, however. It was in the October 1949 issue. The builder converted Oscale locos to run on dry ice. Joe
maxman I believe that there was an article in MR about a steam loco that ran on dry ice. That might have been O scale, however.
One of the people who was associated with Kalmbach bought one and lettered it for his Erin go Bragh and Volts Too. Later it was advertised for sale - for $1,500 transition era dollars.
One problem was that the extreme low temperature exhaust caused the stack to ice up like a mint julep glass.
At about the same time I brainstormed the same idea for HO, using a solenoid needle valve for a throttle. The warm solenoid, I figured, would superheat the supercooled CO2 and do away with the icing. Unfortunately (or, maybe, fortunately) it never got beyond the 'sketch on the back of an envelope' stage.
The problem is the precision level and delicate parts required for small scale micro-engines. I won't say it can't be done, but I'll gladly stand aside and let someone else spend THEIR money. One such locomotive would probably cost more than my entire rail empire, including rolling stock...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I had one of those small control line planes when I was a teenager. If that is the technology you are referring to forget it. As I recall you had to attach a battery to the motor crank it and then remove the battery. It was a 2 person operation for 5 minutes of run time.
Joe Staten Island West
JJRR i was just wondering, wouldn't it be great if there was an ho scale version of a locomotive that burned a non toxic fuel inside miniature engines, and used this for power? i think it would be more prototypical, because on the big prototype there is no such thing as electrified rails that power a real locomotive. the prototype uses diesel engines that turn electric turbines. in a model, it would be more prototypical if they burned a light, non toxic fuel such as some kind of bio-naptha made from vegatable oil, and had a remote control to power things like the throttle and brakes. any thoughts?
Something like this becomes a hobby by itself.
If you are interested, I suggest you start with something larger like O or G. Then as you gain experience try to scale it down.
Frankly, I haven't yet seen anything to challenge the convience of electricity through the rails. And that includes the current state of battery operation. Not that battery operation can't be fun and interesting to pursue, but there's too much fun stuff in this hobby for me to do it all.
Enjoy
Paul
HO scale...not likely. Unless we're talking about someone creating a machine like the on in the movie 'Fantastic Voyage'. Mmm...dream on. But there could be some interesting things with 'O' scale and larger. I've often wondered about using R/C aircraft powerplants for building up something similar to a diesel electric. There are 'O' scale traction motors! NWSL. Set up control either in R/C or DCC.
As far as steam. I remember at one time the live steam company Little Engines manufactured 'O' live steam engines, a pacific and a northern IIRC. I saw one of their 4-8-4's one time at a hobby shop in Lancaster, PA a long time ago that was a completed chassis...very impressive.
As an afterthought. HO traction motors (like the real thing)...maybe with the right gear reduction system, those tiny motors used in those little R/C helicopters and such. Possible?
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
I remember seeing an O scale locomotive that was similar. I think it burned some type of oil. But as you said, it took off and just ran. The one I saw seemed like it ran about 200 mph. It was like an old Marx wind-up train.
There are just some things you can't scale down and have operate the same as the prototype.
Jim