Doughless Texas Zepher I'm always nervous when I draw the ore train (83 cars). 83 cars? Yikes! I know they're ore cars, but still........
Texas Zepher I'm always nervous when I draw the ore train (83 cars).
I'm always nervous when I draw the ore train (83 cars).
83 cars? Yikes!
I know they're ore cars, but still........
My BLI 2-6-6-4 has easily pulled 100 plus car trains, on my layout and on a friends layout - in the case of my friend, his layout has helix spirals out of lower level staging - no problems.
BUT, minimum radius 36", most curves much larger than 36". Grades generally 2% or less, turnouts all #6 and larger. Cars, all with metal wheels, Kadee couplers and similar in weight - close to NMRA RP. Speeds - slow, just like a real 100 car train.....
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL BUT, minimum radius 36", most curves much larger than 36". Grades generally 2% or less, turnouts all #6 and larger. Cars, all with metal wheels, Kadee couplers and similar in weight - close to NMRA RP. Speeds - slow, just like a real 100 car train..... Sheldon
Alton Junction
Rich, Those are nice locos, I have four of them and would not mind having a few more.
I typically double head them to handle 50 car coal trains - 2% grades.
The other thing they get used for, one gets paired with a Proto 2-8-8-2, yes they run fine together, because the 2-6-6-2 actually pulls better and makes the Proto engine look good from a pulling power stand point.......
In my experience, the Spectrum 2-6-6-2 is the finest non-sound steamer that I own, right up there with the best sound equipped steamers from BLI. My Spectrum carries the C&O road name.
Rich
richhotrain In my experience, the Spectrum 2-6-6-2 is the finest non-sound steamer that I own, right up there with the best sound equipped steamers from BLI. My Spectrum carries the C&O road name. Rich
I have two lettered for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL, refitted with Delta trailing trucks and Vandy tenders like this:
Then I have one each lettered C&O, versions H5 and H4. It is one of the few locos I watch for possible bargins on, with the right deal, I would grab up a few more. Sheldon
Then I have one each lettered C&O, versions H5 and H4.
It is one of the few locos I watch for possible bargins on, with the right deal, I would grab up a few more.
ATLANTIC CENTRALStaying coupled and on the track - that is a function of good track and strick rolling stock standards - another reason I'm not much on clubs any more......
As you may know there is usually one member that will disregard the rules or place cars on the layout without going through the inspector as per the club operating rules that was dutifully voted on and passed by the membership.
BTW..As I mention back on page one I just finished a week of running during the county fair open house run a thon with zero derailments or break in twos.Not bad for just over 38 hours of running. Of course I would never accept anything less.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Mine is kinda like Sheldon's in approach, but more simplified. My "city" is an industrial area along a branch, no actual mainlines. It can be operated point to point between the yard and various industries. There is also a visible continuous loop which serves a couple industries, but can be operated as a roundy-round if that's all I feel like. The hidden staging is a loop type too. Dan
Bringing this thread back to the original topic; I prefer point to point with staging at each end. I want to recreate a sliver of a railroad. For me running trains in a loop gets old real quick. Creating trains to service "customers" will keep me and my friends entertained for many years to come. Although you have operating sessions in a loop layout, I don't like the idea of having a train go through the same scene more than one time. On a point to point layout it feels more like transporting freight and people from point A to point B. For example when I drop off a Heinz billboard refer at a food distributer in Charlestown WV, I feel like I am completing the last leg of a journey from Pittsburgh to Charlestown.
jjdamnit Hello All, This is an extension of a discussion of the thread, "Who Runs DC Only?" In that discussion it deteriorated into not the hows (DC vs. DCC) but the What's... What's your particular preference on layout design and operation. My question is..."Loop vs. Point to Point...What's your preference?" And, here's the kicker...don't tell us why others fall short but rather why you enjoy your particular operation. Looking forward to any and all civil answers.
Hello All,
This is an extension of a discussion of the thread, "Who Runs DC Only?"
In that discussion it deteriorated into not the hows (DC vs. DCC) but the What's...
What's your particular preference on layout design and operation.
My question is..."Loop vs. Point to Point...What's your preference?"
And, here's the kicker...don't tell us why others fall short but rather why you enjoy your particular operation.
Looking forward to any and all civil answers.
I run continuous ovals (4) with no staging, because I have a freight yard, passenger yard, and an IM facilty. So I don't need to use artificial staging yards as my yards are actually used as yards.
I don't know why you are asking what other's preferences are unless you have not yet decided on what you want. The perfect layout is the one that YOU enjoy.
Other people's opinions don't count.
A few more thoughts:
It is interesting the number of replys from people who don't seem to get the idea that you do not just run trains in circles on layouts with through staging - except for dispaly running.
Maybe the problem is they don't like the idea that a train originating in the visable yard only travels half the layout before stopping in the hidden staging?
But it has been explained - some trains will run from staging to staging, some will originate at the yard, some will terminate at the yard.
I don't mean any offense, but is there some sort of lack of imagination that people need to be unable to physically run the train in a circle to compel themselves to use a realistic operating scheme?
Loop layouts, with just one visable yard can work fine - but they require the suspended belief that a train leaving the yard magicly becomes a different train when it comes back around - for those who can't seem to understand the use of through staging, this would be an even greater stretch of the imagination?
JMK jjdamnit Hello All, This is an extension of a discussion of the thread, "Who Runs DC Only?" In that discussion it deteriorated into not the hows (DC vs. DCC) but the What's... What's your particular preference on layout design and operation. My question is..."Loop vs. Point to Point...What's your preference?" And, here's the kicker...don't tell us why others fall short but rather why you enjoy your particular operation. Looking forward to any and all civil answers. I run continuous ovals (4) with no staging, because I have a freight yard, passenger yard, and an IM facilty. So I don't need to use artificial staging yards as my yards are actually used as yards.
"Artificial"? Interesting choice of words. If one is modeling a prototype that is a closed system - no interchanges with other railroads, then fine.
But most of out prototypes are bigger than the portions we model, and connect to other railroads - staging simulates all that is connected but not modeled..........
Not sure I understand what is "artificial" about that?
JMK So I don't need to use artificial staging yards as my yards are actually used as yards.
So I don't need to use artificial staging yards as my yards are actually used as yards.
Staging yards are not artifical, they are for real. They are the stage entry and exit points for the actors which are the trains. Every thing else in an operating session is artifical. When I stop a train at a station, no HO scale people board or exit the train. When I drop a box car at a grain elevator no one is filling the boxcar with grain. The grain elevator and the station are stage props. They are basically empty boxes with a fancy exterior.
ATLANTIC CENTRALIt is interesting the number of replys from people who don't seem to get the idea that you do not just run trains in circles on layouts with through staging - except for dispaly running
Sheldon,
I think you are confused. You don't have a continuous layout. You have a point-to-point layout with staging yards at both ends. It just so happens that your two staging yards share the same track.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I am still a hold out, running DC only.
My layout is a point to point with a yard and engine facility at each end. The layout was built as a switching layout occupying a room about 24 x 17 feet.
By using three hidden staging tracks, I can run a train continuously, but rarely do this. After a local freight brings its cars to either yard, an outbound train is made up and sent "off stage" to the hidden staging tracks to later become an inbound train.
For me, watching trains run in a circle can get boring rather quickly. All four towns on my layout have over 20 industries to service and each town purposely has a switching problem built in to it. I enjoy this kind of a challnege.
I am currently planning a layout that has two large yards, each with A/D and classification tracks and minor diesel servicing facilities. The two yards are connected by a common staging yard which allows for display running (rail fanning when shooting pool). The layout will be operated point-to-point with road crews picking up/dropping off road power at the engine facilities. A "staging hostler" will add power to a train and take it into staging or bring a train out of staging and remove the power. Unit trains, such as loaded or empty hopper cars, can be reused as they will have different road power, making them appear to be different.
I've recently thought about repurposing both yards as solely A/D yards with engine servicing and converting the staging area into a very large classification yard. The layout will still operate point-to-point like the original plan, but now the staging yard becomes a major operating point on the layout. It would also aleviate some of the congestion that I've encountered when operating layouts around large yards (yardmaster, hostler, classification crews, road crews, etc. all in a relatively tight space).
Any thoughts? Thanks.
Doug
ATLANTIC CENTRALLoop layouts, with just one visable yard can work fine - but they require the suspended belief that a train leaving the yard magicly becomes a different train when it comes back around - for those who can't seem to understand the use of through staging, this would be an even greater stretch of the imagination? Sheldon
Absolutely...A point to point layout or yard to hidden staging yard A or staging yard B can eliminate that problem. That's why I operated my few loop layouts as out and back branch lines.I returned with different cars I picked up at the industries.
Doughless83 cars? Yikes! I know they're ore cars, but still........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXAiuwDtNN4&feature=youtu.be
Back to the topic of this thread. The OC&E layout where the ore train runs has two hidden staging yards. That is one for each direction. Normal operation is from staging back to its original staging location. On the layout proper there is a large yard on each end, and some trains (the regional and mixed trains) originate in those yards. Finally there is the branch where a couple "turn" trains originate. The ore train actually goes all the way to the end of the branch and drops its cargo in the dock, then reverses and goes all the way back through the layout to its staging track. If the train leaves on time at 9:45 a.m., including power swaps for the branch power, switching the cars into the ore dock, it is usually done by 2:00 p.m. Real time.
The trains can also "run through" to the other side in a big loop. The loop is 20.3 smiles, and the speed limit is 20 smph so it takes a real hour to make the circuit if one can go straight through. It is a single track main line so seldom does one get green lights the whole way even with a high priority through passenger train.
Size eliminates a lot of the issues of seeing the same train over and over again, or a train running through the same scene too often.
carl425 This scheme is particularly useful when you're running open top cars. Empty hoppers going in both directions is at least as disturbing as a train running laps. If I had the space, my layout would be done in the same style as Sheldon's. Since I'm building a multi-deck layout and have space to go up but not to get back down, I'm building loop to loop. I'll just have to manually stage loads and empties between sessions.
This scheme is particularly useful when you're running open top cars. Empty hoppers going in both directions is at least as disturbing as a train running laps.
If I had the space, my layout would be done in the same style as Sheldon's. Since I'm building a multi-deck layout and have space to go up but not to get back down, I'm building loop to loop. I'll just have to manually stage loads and empties between sessions.
MikeWheeler carl425 This scheme is particularly useful when you're running open top cars. Empty hoppers going in both directions is at least as disturbing as a train running laps. If I had the space, my layout would be done in the same style as Sheldon's. Since I'm building a multi-deck layout and have space to go up but not to get back down, I'm building loop to loop. I'll just have to manually stage loads and empties between sessions. Ooooooh -- Can I stump for a train elevator? Or at least cassettes to help with the manual staging.
Both are great for layout concepts with short consists - not real practical for my 50 car and a sometimes larger trains.
For a smaller layout in more limited space:
You can have point to point-like ops in a strictly loop style of layout. Imagine a layout that consists of one loop, and another half-loop on the inside (forming sort of a crescent shape). The inside half-loop can be a double ended yard, with the entire outside loop being countryside.
Operationally, you can build a train in the yard, then leave the yard to traverse several laps on the outside loop (to not pass through the yard again), then after enough laps have been made and enough "distance" has been modeled, pull into the yard from the other end. In this schematic, the train number stays the same, but the yard changes "locations". This yard can be a terminal point, a division point, a place for a crew change, a way to drop cuts and pick up others, then move along for more laps. A turntable could allow locomotives to be turned, facilitating the break down and make up of completely new trains to head back around the layout in the other direction. Various operating schematics could be made out of type of plan.
Going around the outside loop many times might seem unrealistic from a scenery standpoint, but traveling through places like the midwest, great plains, or portions of the appalachian mountains, the scenery doesn't change for many miles.
Add a couple of spurs on the outside of the loop and they can represent industries for set out/pick up along the way.
Its an example of how to make a loop layout have an operating plan so it doesn't have to be strictly a display layout. Obviously, the scenery would have to be generic, so it really wouldn't work if a layout modeled a specific place.
- Douglas
MikeWheelerCan I stump for a train elevator? Or at least cassettes to help with the manual staging.
My staging yards are both U shaped and have double ended tracks for 20 car trains (plus 2-3 diesels and a caboose). One is at 32" elevation, the other is at 80" elevation. There are 3 levels of track between them - 2 to be fully sceniced and one minimally sceniced no-lix. I'm not sure how an elevator or a cassette implementation could work.
I have answered before so I will again. I have a continuous running two track main. However, I have just added on a 14 foot extension so I will have my continuous running large circle of track with a point to point extension that I now have to populate with track and buildings. see, you can have it all.:)
Way back when MR had an article with track plans for a come and go layout. It was a continuous loop with a large city for switching interest and a branch line to a mine or whatever you would like.
Well that is the goal of my layout, a continuous 2 track oval with hidden staging for trains to come and go in the city, pullers and locals with stop and switch the industries/warehouses in the city and a mine run will go up the branchline.
The perfect prototype for this railroad is the Toledo Terminal which was an oval around the city with numerous spurs to coal yards, lumber yards, refineries etc. Also it interchanged with and gave running rights to the various major railroads that entered Toledo like the NYC, PRR, B&O, C&O, NKP, WAB, DT&I, D&TSL and Ann Arbor, along with minor players like the Electified Ohio Public Service and the Toledo, Angola and Western.
Rick J
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
I guess my layout will have the best of both worlds. It will be operated as a point-to-point, but have the option of continuous running through the staging yards in the workshop. The modeled portion will go from Harvard, IL (eastern terminus) to Elroy, WI (western terminus). The line will traverse around the basement walls, with a couple of penninsulas here and there. Harvard and Elroy will only be separated by the width of a door way, where they will enter the workshop. The east and west staging yards will be connected to allow for continuous running for friends and family.
Scott