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Operations

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  • Member since
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  • From: Canada
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Operations
Posted by JeremyB on Sunday, May 31, 2015 8:36 PM

Hi guys

i have been thinking about how I want to do operations on my small layout and think I want to go the car card waybill and switch list route. Is the micro mark set a good place to start or are there other places you guys might now where I can print off and make my own

any tips would be great

jeremy

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: La Mesa,CA
  • 145 posts
Posted by Marty C on Sunday, May 31, 2015 10:32 PM

Jeremy,

I have been using the micro mark car card system for awhile and have found it an easy and enjoyable way to operate the layout. I picked up the starter set and have added boxes and additional sets of cards when micro mark has sales. I'm sure there are programs and other ways to make your own that I will let others weigh in on but for me the micro mark system was the simplest.

Each car has a card as do the engines. I have four destinations on the waybills sometimes going to places on the layout and sometimes off the layout to staging. My railroad is a little larger than yours but I;m sure it will work for you  also.

 

Marty C

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: North Dakota
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, June 1, 2015 6:40 AM

If LION wanted to play cards, him would go up and play pinochle with the other guys, (Or bridge with the old ladies).

Here is copy of a blank TRAIN REGISTER. It is for one 24 hour cycle, and does not include the express trains which are the responsiblity of the Nevins Street Tower, nor does it include work trains that run on the overnight, and can blow big holes in the "planned schedule".

THAT is a TRAIN SCHEDULE!

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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  • From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
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Posted by cacole on Monday, June 1, 2015 8:36 AM

There are many examples of car cards and switch lists on the Internet that can be found through a simple search using any of the popular search engines.

 

  • Member since
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Posted by davidmurray on Monday, June 1, 2015 8:50 AM

Jeremy:

I made my own cards from file cards.  A 4"x6" inch cut in half, and then one half cut again, and a little clear tape makes a car card.  A 3x5 cut in half makes a waybill, four sided of course.

You also need industry boxes around the layour, labelled of course to put the card in when the car is spotted.

I do not bother with switch lists as I consider the carcard system direction enough as to where the cars go, and the same for car pickups.  Others may differ with this opinion, and perhaps larger layouts would change my mind.

 

David

 

 

David Murray from Oshawa, Ontario Canada
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Posted by mlehman on Monday, June 1, 2015 9:48 AM

I'll elaborate a little on David comments on switchlists. So long as it's just you operating, switchlists are superfluous if you're using car cards. That's probably also the case with smaller layout with a limited number of industry spots.

My ops have trouble keeping track of all the cards and boxes in relation to the industries served. On average, they covered maybe 50% of the drops, where they left the yard with cards in hand. But they usually only picked up well under 50% of loads and MTs that needed it out on the road. Maybe they're still learning the ropes, but I decided to move the cards myself, but only after making up swicthlists based on them to give to the ops to work their trains. I then get the switchlist back and use it to update card location to where the car is sitting, as well as to verify the movement. This has considerably improved things without much extra work.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by cv_acr on Monday, June 1, 2015 9:50 AM

BroadwayLion

If LION wanted to play cards, him would go up and play pinochle with the other guys, (Or bridge with the old ladies).

Here is copy of a blank TRAIN REGISTER. It is for one 24 hour cycle, and does not include the express trains which are the responsiblity of the Nevins Street Tower, nor does it include work trains that run on the overnight, and can blow big holes in the "planned schedule".

THAT is a TRAIN SCHEDULE!

 

ROAR

 

Train registers and schedules have absolutely nothing to do with car cards.

Car cards are a freight forwarding system - how individual cars move.

Schedules are a dispatching system - how entire trains move. (A train register is tool that is one part of the dispatching system.)

These are completely separate and have no relation to each other other than being under the greater umbrella of "operations". The greatest mistake people keep making is to not to keep these concepts completely separate in these discussions.

  • Member since
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  • From: US
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Posted by wp8thsub on Monday, June 1, 2015 10:26 AM

The Micro Mark cards and bills work fine.  I use them.  I'm not as impressed with their waybill boxes or other associated materials, so I just purchase the car cars and waybills separately.

If you wan't switchlists, it won't be necessary to have car cards too for most people, although a few layouts do utilize the cards for organizing things and have hand-written switchlists for the actual work at the industries and yards.

Rob Spangler

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  • From: Omaha, NE
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Posted by dehusman on Monday, June 1, 2015 10:55 AM

Micro Mark CC&WB are fine.

You can also use almost any word processing or spreadsheet program to build your own CC&WB paperwork.  Then just print them out on heavy paper and cut them apart.  Making blank forms is pretty simple and cheap (your time is the biggest investment).  For a small layout I would say it is a push between home brewed and Micro Mark.  For a bigger layout the more sophisticated software will have the advantage of being able to auto fill some or all of the data.  I use a home made Access database to generate CC&WB, but that would be overkill for a small layout.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by mlehman on Monday, June 1, 2015 2:39 PM

If you have rudimentary wood tools, the car card boxes are easy to make. Basically, they're 3 different widths of 1/8" or 1/4" chipboard or masonite. One strip is for the front, another forms the bottoms and dividers, and the tallest is the back. Cut the strips to width, then chop them to the correct length for your plans. These can be glued together and there you have it.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by JeremyB on Tuesday, June 2, 2015 9:32 AM

Thanks for the tips fellas,

I was also thinking of maybe just making up a little list for me to go by. Example

Deliver 2 empty hoppers to grain elevator

Deliver 3 empty bobcars to grocery warehouse

Something along the lines of that, I think waybills would be overdoing it for my layout?

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Posted by wp8thsub on Tuesday, June 2, 2015 10:36 AM

JeremyB
Deliver 2 empty hoppers to grain elevator Deliver 3 empty bobcars to grocery warehouse Something along the lines of that, I think waybills would be overdoing it for my layout?

Not at all.  They just serve as instructions on where to send cars.  A car card/waybill system is easy to set up and self-perpetuating.  Once you have them filled out you don't have to worry about them again, just flip the bills at the industries or staging to the next side, then pick up and run from where you left off last time.

Rob Spangler

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  • From: Omaha, NE
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Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, June 2, 2015 11:27 AM

JeremyB

I was also thinking of maybe just making up a little list for me to go by. Example

Deliver 2 empty hoppers to grain elevator

Deliver 3 empty bobcars to grocery warehouse

Switchlists work and are about the cheapest (use any scrap of paper)

For the next level above what you have suggested, you can say which specific car goes to which specific place

ABCX 23456 grain elevator

IAIS 34567 grain elevator

UP 366890 grain elevator

MP366201 grocery door 1

BNSF 12789 grocery door 2

NS 678234 grocery door 3

And don't forget that cars have to be pulled from industry too.

Something along the lines of that, I think waybills would be overdoing it for my layout?

The advantage of CC&WB (or a computer driven system) is more with a bigger layout in that you don't need to keep re-writing stuff, you write the car numbers and destinations down once and then keep recycling the car numbers (car card) and the destinations (waybills) session after session.  Your waybills can have as many or as few moves as you want, even though the form has four moves on a waybill, nothing says you have to use them all.  I have lots of one or two move waybills.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by JeremyB on Tuesday, June 2, 2015 1:00 PM

Thanks for the tips fellas, I appreciate it Big Smile I guess the biggest thing is making sure I dont keep using the same cars and that all the freight cars get to see layout time.

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Posted by dknelson on Tuesday, June 2, 2015 3:57 PM

Strongly agree that operating to a schedule is one thing; car routing and forwarding is quite another.   But recall our friend the Lion is talking about subways which perhaps do not change their consists all that much, but which rigidly adhere to a schedule.  Presumably that is where the prime fun is on a subway layout.

There are also such refinements as train priority (class of trains; east bound over west bound within the same class; the role of the dispatcher; that sort of thing).  Kalmbach collected a bunch of Andy Sperandeo's monthly Operators columns on these topics into a booklet a few years ago -- and then of course Andy kept writing more columns!   That booklet is an excellent way to get into the whole operations mindset (even if you have the original magazines as I do).

For car forwarding a buddy of mine first got into it with an index card he created vertical format that listed the various destinations for the car -- in a sort of descending sequence -- including having the car be on a through freight west or through freight east meaning it ended up in staging -- and THEN -- "off layout."  Or sometimes "off layout" appeared more than once on the card; he varied that.  The car would be placed in a cabinet and the car card put in the back of a card index box. With each car card placed in the back of the box, a card at the front would be pulled out and the matching car taken from the cabinet and placed on the layout in staging.  The car placed in a cabinet might be a reefer with its various destinations and the one taken from the cabinet might be a tank car with its various (and obviously very different) destinations.  This helped tremendously in keeping each session from seeming like the one before it and each freight train looked and operated differently too.  That kept folks on their toes. 

Sometimes the four cycles of the car cards make it seem like the same session sequence follows in order.  You need a way to freshen it up.

He would mark the accomplishment of the next destination on the card with a paperclip that he would simply move down.  This worked but sometimes the clips got so tangled up that you did not really know where in the sequence he was.  He eventually replaced that paper clip idea with all new cards with a grid of boxes to be checked in pencil.  In theory when the grid was filled he'd erase the whole thing and start over but well before a card got filled (and it could take months and perhaps even over a year before a car placed into the cabinet would be removed and used again) he changed systems. 

The end result is that he always had about the same number of cars on the layout and thus usually had room for them in his yards and sidings.  I say "usually" because his file card box system did not distinguish between a 34' hopper car taken off the layout and 89' flatcar placed on it.

I think the idea of a system -- any system -- that gets the cars off the layout (and new ones on it) in an orderly way is a good one.  Most of us have way too many cars to all be on the layout at one time anyway, or we needlessly stuff our staging yards with every car we own. 

The matter of schedule and train priority might matter more if you have a lot of passenger trains.  I have seen some large and sophisticated layouts operate quite well based on the old "sequential" idea versus true timetable/fast clock schedule. 

Dave Nelson

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  • From: Saginaw, MI
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Posted by Bob Schuknecht on Tuesday, June 2, 2015 7:07 PM

I use the Basic Waybill and Car Card Type 1 available here: http://www.nmra.org.au/Pages/waybills.html

 

Print, cut, fold and tape.

  • Member since
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  • From: Saginaw, MI
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Posted by Bob Schuknecht on Tuesday, June 2, 2015 7:19 PM

dknelson

I think the idea of a system -- any system -- that gets the cars off the layout (and new ones on it) in an orderly way is a good one.  Most of us have way too many cars to all be on the layout at one time anyway, or we needlessly stuff our staging yards with every car we own. 

 

I agree with this. As part of my operations every car that goes to staging or an Interchange gets rotated off the layout.

Years ago I was a regular on an operating layout and the owner kept all of his cars on the layout. Besides having his yards constantly jammed with cars, trains that went to an Interchange early in the evening would return to the yard later with the same cars that were sent out in the last Interchange train. The yard masters were constantly switching the same cars. On my layout I may not see a particular car for months depending on how long it takes to rotate back onto the layout.

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