1st ops session coming up this summer. How do you pick out train numbers for the operating session? Do you do certain numbers northbound versus southbound? Even numbers or odd numbers? What about extra trains? My railroad is the 1950s point to point running northbound and southbound single track. Local freights and through freights both. Plan on using train order and car cards. No fast clock at least for now. I thought about using just the engine number but as the engine changes, it would mess up the train number. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks, Rob
Jerry Britton
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad's Middle Division in the early 1950s
http://pennsyrr.com
The most common standard in the U.S. has been even numbers east and north; odd numbers west and south. Picture yourself standing in Florida and looking at Alaska. Trains going to the right are even numbers; those going to the left are odd. This is still Amtrak's standard. Usually long distance passenger trains had one-or-two digit numbers. Of course, this couldn't hold true in high-density situations such as busy commuter lines. There were exceptions, of course.
Tom
Are you modeling a prototype railroad or are you freelancing? On serveral railroads extra trains use the lead locomotive's road number. For example on the NKP an extra heading west with Locomotive 759 would be Extra 759W. Some railroads had names and train numbers: New York Centrals 20th Century Limited (name) was Train #26 or Train #25 depending on if you were going east or west.
When the train reaches the end of its run, it would be broken down or put into different train anyway. For example, Extra 625N arrives at the end of the run. The locomotive enters the roundhouse for servicing. While 625 is being serviced a southbound extra is called. The roundhouse forman has locomotive 632 on the ready track and informs the dispatcher. The dispatcher would write up the orders as Extra 632S.
If you are into operations, consider joining OPSIG (Operations Special Interest Group). It is an NMRA group, however NMRA membership is not required, only encouraged. http://www.opsig.org/
I am currently patiently awaiting the reprinting of 19 East, Copy Three (an OPSIG book about operations).
Operations Roadshow is another good rescource for learning about operating like a prototype railroad. http://www.railsonwheels.com/ors/opershow.shtml
Tony Koester's book Realistic Model Railroad Operation can be purchased from this website. Scroll mouse over shop, click books, cover of book has farm scene with 2 trains meeting at a passing siding. https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/products/books?filter.hobby%20category=2013356bf82046d8b28043091e8d7520
I'm a New Haven fan, so I model my club's Operations on their method, with a few modifications.All Trains:East/North = EvenWest/South = OddPassengers:Long Distance = 1-99Mail & Express = 100-199Local/Commuter (Boston Div.) = 500-599Local/Commuter (Great Lakes Div.) = 600-699Local/Commuter (Mountain Div.) = 700-799Local/Commuter (Greenbush Div.) = 800-899
Freight:We use a 2-letter symbol code, plus a one digit number. Each yard has it's own letter, and the departing yard is the first letter, the receiving yard is the second. Then the number indicates East or West (or multiples).
On our layout, the letter codes are:B = BostonH = Cedar HillJ = Essex JunctionL = Great LakesM = MiddletonS = Steel MillSo the freight from Boston to Middleton would be BM-1. The train from Cedar Hill to Boston would be HB-2. We have a 2nd train from Cedar Hill to Boston and it is called HB-4.
There is also another letter for local freights: X. The "X" is used in place of the second letter for a destination. Since all locals leave and arrive from the same yard, the "X" is used to both identify that as well as an obvious flag that it is a local, not a through train. So the 1st Westbound local out of Cedar Hill is HX-1. The Eastbound local out of Middleton is MX-2. And so on.
Paul A. Cutler III
Rob:
I have something similar. Even North and odd south seem like a good start.
I use three digit train numbers, with first number being the train class, with a very simplified class system.
First class is Express passenger service.
Second class is local passenger service.
Third class is thru freight.
Fourth class is local freights.
Fifth class is the iron ore mine run.
I know this is probably not close to prototypical, but is simple.
You should also have a superior direction, I used going towards the classification yard a superior.
Hope this is helpful
Dave
ACY The most common standard in the U.S. has been even numbers east and north; odd numbers west and south.
The most common standard in the U.S. has been even numbers east and north; odd numbers west and south.
Interesting. Here in Canada the north/south is exactly the opposite of what you just said; NBs are odd, SBs are even. WBs are odd, EBs even.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
The Timetable and Train Order (TTO) system was most common in the 1950s. Under that system, regularly scheduled trains are given authority to operate by the employee timetable, and are identified by the train number in the timetable, regardless of the road number of the locomotive. As others have pointed out, the U.S. convention has been to give northbound scheduled trains even numbers, and odd numbers to southbound scheduled trains. Examples: No 6, No 5.
The movement of all other trains on main tracks is authorized by written train order issued under the direction of the dispatcher. The train orders will designate the identity of an extra train, usually by giving the road number of the locomotive and the train's direction, e.g., Extra 1385 North. A train order authorizing movement will designate the initial and final points for that train on the railroad, for example: Eng 1385 run extra Avon to Zenda (no punctuation is used in train orders). This is what would be known as a Form G train order. It and other standard forms will be explained in the materials on prototypical operations referenced by others.
If you anticipate changing locomotives on an extra train, you can issue train orders to and from the point at which the engines will be changed, as in: Eng 1385 run extra Avon to Midvale (and, once the road number of the replacement loco is established) Eng 1800 run extra Midvale to Zenda. The train's identty will change at Midvale from Extra 1385 North to Extra 1800 North.
-- John
SWA737 Plan on using train order and car cards. No fast clock at least for now.
Just to clarify, train orders and car cards are completely separate from each other.
Train orders (+ timetable) is a dispatching system.
Car cards are a car forwarding system.
You could replace either of those with a different system and not affect the other.
Also, since we're talking about train orders and train numbers...
<slight semantics discussion follows>
Train orders were used in conjunction with timetable operation.
Only regularly scheduled trains had numbers listed on the timetable. Additional trains could run, but would be Extra trains, without a schedule number.
"Extra" here means specifically "train without a timetable schedule". That extra could be a train that operates daily, but for a variety of operational reasons, may be excluded from the timetable.
Now, in addition to a timetable schedule number, a train (even an extra) could also have a Symbol. This could be a number (often matching the normal timetable schedule number) or an alpha code.
Since you're not using a clock, you're not really using a timetable, so you'll probably generate a specific sequence "schedule" of trains to run (simplified timetable without actual times), or use the train orders to run everything as Extras and explicitly identify all meeting locations by order based on your op. plan.
To do it "properly", you can use symbols to identify and refer to your trains and their jobs operationally, but all train orders would be addressed to and refer to "Extra 1234 North" etc.
</end semantics>
That said, there's nothing that says you can't simplify the system a little for your own use by using those symbols instead of engine numbers in your orders. It might not be fully prototypical, but might be a good simplified adaptation for your model railroad.
davidmurray Rob: I have something similar. Even North and odd south seem like a good start. I use three digit train numbers, with first number being the train class, with a very simplified class system. First class is Express passenger service. Second class is local passenger service. Third class is thru freight. Fourth class is local freights. Fifth class is the iron ore mine run. I know this is probably not close to prototypical, but is simple. You should also have a superior direction, I used going towards the classification yard a superior. Hope this is helpful Dave
I'd be careful with the "class" terms, as that means something else and very specific to timetable operations, but you're probably doing something other than strict TT operation.
Timetables identify trains with up to 4 classes (First, Second, Third, Fourth). Extra trains have no class. These classes factor in to the Superiority of the trains which is an important concept when running by timetable, as this defines which train(s) must make way for which others.
Semantics aside, your system isn't actually unrealistic. Around here, CN and CP both used number series to group different types of trains. For example, CN's currrent system is:
P001-099: Passenger (VIA Rail & Amtrak)
Q100-199: Priority intermodal
A200-299: Automotive
M300-399: Long distance freight
M400-499: Short distance freight
L500-599: Locals
P600-699: Passenger (mostly VIA Rail weekend only schedules, although just this morning CN was running a business train as #600, and the former Algoma Central trains were also numbered into the 600 series)
U700-899: Unit trains
Thank you Chris. All of the comments and explanations have been good but yours really explained it the way I understand it best.
Rob
In addition to the numbering schemes already described, note than some roads dispensed with scheduled freights altogether and ran them all as extras (the Santa Fe for one). This practice became more common as more roads installed CTC, eliminating the need for time table / train order authority.
On one layout where I operate, the train numbers signify not only direction (even=eastbound), but also origin/destination and work enroute. A zero as the second digit indicates it makes a setout/pickup at one particular town, a 2 means a pickup at another, a first digit of 4 runs via a secondary main, etc. Once you know the numbers, it helps determine what cars go in what train, and where the dispatcher should route it.
Since I model the WP in its last decade, I use symbols for mainline trains. WPX = Western Pacific Expedited (eastbound overhead traffic for interchange with UP), APRG = Auto Parts Rio Grande (eastbound empty auto parts for interchange with the D&RGW), CMS = California Merchandise Special (westbound general freight from the D&RGW), etc. All my local destinations are fictitious locations on the layout, so the locals just get typical sounding names like Milton Turn or Raft River Turn.
Other naming schemes specify origin and destination, plus maybe the type of train. An SP symbol might be DVROM (Denver-Roper Manifest), one on UP NPLAZ (North Platte - Los Angeles intermodal). These change over time. Here's some info on how UP has employed symbols http://uphs.org.preview10.userservices.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/trainsymbols.pdf .
If yo're freelancing, pick a numbering or naming scheme you like and go with it. Modify it as necessary.
Rob Spangler
cv_acrSince you're not using a clock, you're not really using a timetable, so you'll probably generate a specific sequence "schedule" of trains to run (simplified timetable without actual times), or use the train orders to run everything as Extras and explicitly identify all meeting locations by order based on your op. plan.
These are very good points. When you're just starting out on operations, or you're introducing new operators, it's best to keep things simple. With a single-track railroad set in the 1950s, I would establish a long-term goal of learning and using the Timetable and Train Order system. But for starters, I wouldn't bother with trying to meet a schedule. Thus I wouldn't use regularly-scheduled trains for starters. Instead, I would consider all trains to be extras, even if they are going to be doing routine things in each operating session.
You will then have the person or persons in charge of the operating session giving clear directions to the train operators, so that they know where their trains are to be operated, in what sequence, and how and where to get out of the way of other trains on the line.
A very helpful operations aid is a "train instruction card" that describes to the operator the route and purpose of each train. An example: "The Johnstown Peddler is a local freight train that runs as an Extra (loco number) North between Avon and Midvale, and may set out or pick up cars at any location between those points (consult the Switch List you will be given by the yardmaster at Avon). This train terminates at Midvale. Obtain permission from the Midvale yardmaster to enter that yard. Waiting or meeting points (if any) will be as stated in your Train Orders."
A written list of stations, in order, also is very helpful for operators to take along with their trains, at least until they become familiar with the layout.
wp8thsub In addition to the numbering schemes already described, note than some roads dispensed with scheduled freights altogether and ran them all as extras (the Santa Fe for one). This practice became more common as more roads installed CTC, eliminating the need for time table / train order authority.
Yep. CTC eliminated the whole Superiority concept, as the trains were directed by signal indication (set by the dispatcher). So timetable schedules were generally eliminated (although some first-class passenger trains might still be scheduled).
Another popular trick on some railroads with TT operation would be to schedule all trains in one direction only, with opposing trains ran as extras. This had the effect of prioritizing traffic in one direction over ALL traffic in the other.
So all of this together with un-timetabled locals, means that sometimes studying a prototype timetable still doesn't tell you a full picture of everything that was going on. (And conversely, that TT&TO railroading was more flexible than it appears at first glance, particular as you add in other forms of orders to modify things, eg. running orders (extra trains), meet orders, pass orders, work orders (a "Work Extra" is authorized to move in both directions with given limits, and not necessarily a work (maintenance) train), run late, wait orders (to modify or set a schedule), etc. While obsolete today, it was a pretty effective system designed around NOT having reliable radio communications to trains.)
KK Bridge A very helpful operations aid is a "train instruction card" that describes to the operator the route and purpose of each train. ... A written list of stations, in order, also is very helpful for operators to take along with their trains, at least until they become familiar with the layout.
A very helpful operations aid is a "train instruction card" that describes to the operator the route and purpose of each train.
...
Absolutely to both of these, particularly for new operators, but also as reminders to old hands.
Even if you're not using schedules, providing the station list out of the timetable (note that modern railroads still publish a familiar looking employees timetable, there's just no schedule information alongside the station listings anymore) is extremely useful to the crew. I would also include typical information like siding lengths (so trains know if they will fit) and any special notes with this list, and presto, you basically have a fully effective employee's timetable. ;)
A couple of other bits of information that will help your operators:
Extras get the engine number as the train number, as, 'Extra 4231 south'.
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
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