I will admit many people appear to like lights as indicators. However, I did not feel the need for them. I also don’t care that this may not be realistic enough for some.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Randy, regarding PECO turnouts.
I started building my layout long before their North American line, but I don't like power routing turnouts (electrofrog), I don't like dead frogs(insulfrog), and I don't like the geometry of the older products.
While my system is partly based on MZL, and uses turnout postion to direct power in many cases, that is all done with relay contacts, or my ground throw contacts, never with the switch points.
The spring action of the PECO system is not compatible with slow motion machines like the Tortoise. Why buy a more expensive product just so you can defeat its features?
Sheldon
NP2626 Randy, If the toggle switch is placed so the direction of throw is perpendicular to the pathway of the trains on the track schematic, the side to which the lever is pointing most certainly does provide an indication of what position has been routed through the turnout. I will admit many people appear to like lights as indicators. However, I did not feel the need for them. I also don’t care that this may not be realistic enough for some.
Mark, I agree, if I did not need/want to operate the same turnout from two seperate locations, and if the layout did not contain so many complex interlocking routes, and if I did not need the other relay contacts for the signals, I would be more than happy with simple toggles that indicated the position of the points.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Geared Steam Peco spring loaded turnouts, it doesn't get any simpler! ! ! ! That assumes that the electrical charactoristics of PECO turnouts are to your liking - personally they don't meet my needs. But if it works for you - great! Sheldon
Geared Steam Peco spring loaded turnouts, it doesn't get any simpler! ! ! !
Peco spring loaded turnouts, it doesn't get any simpler!
!
That assumes that the electrical charactoristics of PECO turnouts are to your liking - personally they don't meet my needs.
But if it works for you - great!
The question of this thread is "How do you activate your turnouts"?
I answered that question, and yes, they work perfectly, mechanically and electrically for my requirements.
I also use a wood pick to uncouple cars, crazy complicated me...
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
While I like facia mounted diffused LEDs for turnout indication I can see that they could also be a distraction or disturbing to the eye, especially a panel chock full of em'. The light they emit seems different than incandesents.
regards, Peter
That's why I said optional indicator lights. Normal contact DPDT switches are of course not compatible with solenoid switch motors. Most momentary toggles snap back to the middle when released, so do not provide path indication. There are (they do still make them) switches like the old toggle keys that Walthers sold way back when. That have multiple sets of contacts and the handle stays in the position last moved to, so you have the handle position as a guide, but they also have 'passing' contacts in them that are momentary, so they can be used for solenoid machines. They are, however, not exactly cheap. You can get the actual Walthers E201's on eBay now and again, and I just saw Tenshodo made something similar (looks a lot like Lion's diagram) for their solenoid motors.
There are but 2 real alternatives - an electronic circuit to interface normal toggle switches to momentary solenoid switch machines, or regular toggles and Tortoise-type motors. Other than Atlas or Peco, solenoid motors are hard to come by, but there used to be some back in the day that had cutoff contacts so they could be used with regular toggles. Or every turnout gets two switches - a toggle to indicate position and a momentary button to actually activate it. Drifting away from 'simple' again...
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I used KTM twin-coil and Atlas twin coil machines on an early layout that I dismantled back in 1983.
For turnout selection I used single pole double throw rotary switches I picked up at a surplus shop for 5¢ each and the wire feeding this switch had a Radio Shack normally open momentary pushbutton.
Set the rotary switch to the route you wanted, they had about a 15° throw, then a quick push of the MC pushbutton and you were all set. I had a pointer switch knob that would follow the track diagram so the panel route indication was "visible."
You could do the same thing with toggles, down for normal, up for reverse or whatever configuration you want to make your standard.
USS installations usually don't have the electrical switches on the "model Board" but located below mimicking the larger lever type interlockings.
By having that momentary contact pushbutton in the line feeding your toggle switch you can have the toggle indicate your turnout route, then a quick tap on the PB and you're all set.
Just another option, Ed
rrinker That's why I said optional indicator lights. Normal contact DPDT switches are of course not compatible with solenoid switch motors. Most momentary toggles snap back to the middle when released, so do not provide path indication. There are (they do still make them) switches like the old toggle keys that Walthers sold way back when. That have multiple sets of contacts and the handle stays in the position last moved to, so you have the handle position as a guide, but they also have 'passing' contacts in them that are momentary, so they can be used for solenoid machines. They are, however, not exactly cheap. You can get the actual Walthers E201's on eBay now and again, and I just saw Tenshodo made something similar (looks a lot like Lion's diagram) for their solenoid motors. There are but 2 real alternatives - an electronic circuit to interface normal toggle switches to momentary solenoid switch machines, or regular toggles and Tortoise-type motors. Other than Atlas or Peco, solenoid motors are hard to come by, but there used to be some back in the day that had cutoff contacts so they could be used with regular toggles. Or every turnout gets two switches - a toggle to indicate position and a momentary button to actually activate it. Drifting away from 'simple' again... --Randy
I have 15-turnouts/switches on my BRVRR. Ten are remotely operated with Atlas switch machines mounted under the table. Five are manually operated with Caboose Industries #205 ground throws.
The remote switch machines are mounted with 1/16"double-sided foam tape and powered by a MRC Railpower 1300 power pack. The power pack is strong enough to throw the turnouts on the cross-overs two-at-a-time. All the remote switches are controlled with Atlas slided switches. As far as reliability is concerned, I have had only one switch machine fail in more that 10-years and that was caused by a grandson leaning on the slide switch.
Most of my under-table switch machines are converted surface machines. All it takes to do so is a short piece of wire, a length of Plastistruct tubing and a bit of epoxy. There is a "How To" photo essay on my BRVRR website. Here is the link:
http://www.brvrr.com/How'd%20You%20Do%20That.html
Just scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the thumbnail of the switch machine.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
All of these issues are personal choices every one of us has to make. You make them, and either happy with your choice; or, change it if you feel it isn't working. I have felt no compunction to change to something else now, in 26 years!
I "Line" my switches (They are far to heavy to "throw") by touching the points and a self made over centre spring does the rest. As I run a TT&TO railway, I do not beleive in switch machines except in hidden staging. Temporary staging uses ground throws.
Cheers
Roger T.
Home of the late Great Eastern Railway see: - http://www.greateasternrailway.com
For more photos of the late GER see: - http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/
That I can remember off hand at this time, I have fourteen places where the frog gets its’ polarity changed and nine where the power to a specific section of track gets turned off and on by the route chosen. Two are passing sidings and two are sections of track at an industrial portions of the layout and five are staging tracks. I have made good use of the Atlas Snap Relays as this is what is doing all this reversing of polarity and power routing. Yes, even though I have DCC, the sections of track I want shut off from power while the layout was DC, I still want to be shut off. I don't see any point in a DCC locomotive sitting idle being powered the whole time it sits in a siding or in staging. So, I have not changed the power routing capabilities of my layout from what it was when I used DC as my powering method. I have considered changing this on the industrial sidings so switching could still be performed while the mainline is active with other trains.
Mark, As noted earlier in my original post, all my non CTC turnouts are homemade ground throws with electrical slide switches which power frogs and provide power routing/killing as needed.
And on a layout belonging to a friend, where I installed a different version of my control system, we used the Caboose ground throws with the built it electrial contacts. They work well, but are bit of a pain to build/install.
I have a switching layout (20 switches in 20 feet) and needed a way of throwing switches that was cheap and held pressure on the points so I made my own out of Rix PTL's and airplane control rods and 1" dowels. They're cheap and mount to the facia so you can tell which way the points are thrown.
NP2626 You guys who use ground throws, do you power the frog; or, do any power routing, if so, how have you provided the changing polarity power to the frog and how have you routed power? That I can remember off hand at this time, I have fourteen places where the frog gets its’ polarity changed and nine where the power to a specific section of track gets turned off and on by the route chosen. Two are passing sidings and two are sections of track at an industrial portions of the layout and five are staging tracks. I have made good use of the Atlas Snap Relays as this is what is doing all this reversing of polarity and power routing. Yes, even though I have DCC, the sections of track I want shut off from power while the layout was DC, I still want to be shut off. I don't see any point in a DCC locomotive sitting idle being powered the whole time it sits in a siding or in staging. So, I have not changed the power routing capabilities of my layout from what it was when I used DC as my powering method. I have considered changing this on the industrial sidings so switching could still be performed while the mainline is active with other trains.
None of my over 450 turnouts have the frog powered.
Since I model the 1975 - 85 time period everything is diesels and I use Atlas, Shinohara and Walthers turnouts (plus a few Handlaid) I have never found a reason I need to have them powered.
Although I do place drop wires on all 3 ends of every turnout and on every section of flex track - it pretty much eliminated any electrical drop out so my Sound Engines never have a problem.
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Thanks Bob. My questions really pertain to people who have provided powered frogs and power routing and use ground throws.
Power the Frogs?
LION does not even bother to power the swithces on the double crossovers of him. 16" of dead track, and the trains of him have no problems.
Yeah for 48 wheel pickup, eh? Makes wiring simple!
BOAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
All of my powered turnouts are of the twin coil type I strongly recommend that you install a CDU with this type of turnout The CDU protects the coils from burnout while also giving them the extra oomph to snap.with authority for lack of a better word.
Joe Staten Island West