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Brodway Limited Problem

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Brodway Limited Problem
Posted by Roadie on Friday, July 25, 2014 8:36 AM

You would think I would learn my lesson  I just bought a nice used Broadway Limited 4 x 8 x 4 sounded great as soon as I took it across a switch the leading drive wheels came off and shorted out the layout. I have all peco track and switch and have over 30 other Loco with no problem, so I know it isn't the track.
It also seems to surge as it goes down the track. The leading drive wheel going forward and reverse do the same they just don't follow th small leading wheels or the track I have checked all the wheels with my Guage all good.

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Posted by dknelson on Friday, July 25, 2014 9:23 AM

I wonder if a drive wheel is slightly out of quarter or not at 90 degrees to the axle, or the side rods/valve gear might have a bind in them

I do not have a BLI loco - is it possible to easily remove the motor and gear so the engine can just be pushed down the track?  Only do this if it is easy.  Back in the old days of brass and Mantua/Model Die Casting/Penn Line - Bowser type engines, that was a common way to troubleshoot a problem and it was easy to remove the motor and worm gear (although not always easy to get them back so the drive would be smooth and quiet; it took some tinkering.  

You could tell with the boiler off and just pushing the engine where a wheel might have a bit of wobble, or side rods would bind a little (reaming out the hole was the solution sometimes but again that was back when side rods were easy to removbe and put back on).

You didn't mention radius of curve or sharpness of Peco turnout.  Also don't rule out the track just because everything else runs OK.  Some modern manufacturers like to push the NMRA standards right to the edge rather than reside in the safe middle.

Another possibility, and this happened with older brass, is that sometimes the locomotives are poorly balanced with too much weight back in the cab end and not enough in the smokebox end.   Does the engine run better if you put your finger on it while it runs, or if soft small sandbags are put on the front end as it runs?

Don't know what to think about the surges you mention.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by Knowcents on Friday, July 25, 2014 9:42 AM

Does it have the Traction Driver on it? If so remove the traction driver and replace with non-traction driver supplied in box. This assumes you got the original box.

Jeff Clodfelter Santa Fe "Knowcents Division"
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Posted by cacole on Friday, July 25, 2014 10:32 AM

If people are going to write a long rant against a particular brand, they should at least try to spell it correcly -- "Broadway" not "Brodway". 

If you bought it used instead of new, which means it has no warranty, the previous owner may have abused it, so it seems a little unfair to blame Broadway Limited for the problem.

Even used and abused, Broadway Limited may still honor their warranty or at least offer to repair the model at a reasonable charge, so I would contact them and see what can be worked out.

 

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Posted by selector on Friday, July 25, 2014 12:37 PM

The shorting could be from a number of possible problems.  Metal-to-metal contact, for certain, but where?  Is a wheel touching a 'hot' part of the frame, bared metal behind the cylinders, or is a metal tire bridging the two polarities after insulating spacers at the frog of the turnout?

You have to drive the locomotive through the turnout slowly and wait for the short.  Then have a close look at rods, wheels, tires,...something it making contact where it shouldn't.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 25, 2014 2:37 PM

Roadie

You would think I would learn my lesson  I just bought a nice used Broadway Limited 4 x 8 x 4 sounded great as soon as I took it across a switch the leading drive wheels came off and shorted out the layout. 

What lesson did you learn?  Not to buy used locos or not to buy the BLI brand?

The used loco is hardly "nice" if the driver wheels fell off the first time around the layout.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by maxman on Friday, July 25, 2014 5:08 PM

richhotrain
if the driver wheels fell off the first time around the layout.

I think he means derailed.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 25, 2014 5:21 PM

maxman

 

 
richhotrain
if the driver wheels fell off the first time around the layout.

 

I think he means derailed.

 

Oh.  LOL

Alton Junction

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Posted by Roadie on Friday, July 25, 2014 9:08 PM

Sorry for the misspelled word but no is blaming Broadway Limited I am asking for any ome know a fix that is what this site is for I throught not a English class

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Posted by Roadie on Friday, July 25, 2014 9:09 PM

They didn't fall off the loco come off the track, really

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Posted by woodman on Friday, July 25, 2014 9:26 PM
I thought that he meant the front wheels came off the loco, my original thoughts were the same, how could it be nice if the wheels fell off the first time you ran it. As for your comment about learning your lesson, I too thought you were bashing Broadway's products.
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Posted by Roadie on Friday, July 25, 2014 9:38 PM

thanks for the help

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Posted by CTValleyRR on Friday, July 25, 2014 10:23 PM

Roadie

thanks for the help

 

Not sure whether this is sarcastic or not.  You haven't gotten much real help so far, except with your grammar.  And on that subject, while it's not English class, you were forced to study English in school so you could communicate clearly and effectively.  The closer you stick to what you learned (or should have learned) there, the more the discussion will center on helping you correct your loco problem rather than correcting your English.

Now, as for your problem, I don't have any BLI locos, but I have two IHC Command XXV locos that had a similar problem.  It turned out that the tender was causing the loco to pop a wheelie.  In one case, the DCC wires (the decoder is in the tender) were too short, which I was able to fix by gently tugging the wires through the penetration, leaving more slack between the tender and loco.  In the other, the drawbar connecting the loco and tender was too low, which I fixed by bending it slightly.

Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford

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Posted by CTValleyRR on Friday, July 25, 2014 10:52 PM

And for those of you wondering "what lesson?"... almost exactly 2 years ago, the OP started a different thread about a problem with a used BLI loco.  Some reference to this would have been helpful, rather than being forced to rely on his posting history.

Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, July 26, 2014 1:29 AM

CTValleyRR

And for those of you wondering "what lesson?"... almost exactly 2 years ago, the OP started a different thread about a problem with a used BLI loco.  Some reference to this would have been helpful, rather than being forced to rely on his posting history.

 

No offense to any one.... but that appears to be a common occurrence on some threads. More time is spent asking questions then answering them to get at the root of the question.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by bobwrght on Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:23 AM
Are you running DC or Dcc ?? I had a problem with surging in the Paragon 2 steam running on DC. Sent it back and Service dept updated decoder. Then I had to adjust the setting for CV's.
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:56 AM

Two questions

1. What size of turnout did this occur on small, medium, large, slip, double slip or wye?  What route were you attempting to take (divergent or straight though)?

2. What color box did the locomotive come in (is it a Blueline, Paragon 2 or other)?

 

CTValleyRR
Now, as for your problem, I don't have any BLI locos, but I have two IHC Command XXV locos that had a similar problem. It turned out that the tender was causing the loco to pop a wheelie.

One of our club members had a BLI T-1 Paragon 2 (a 4-4-4-4) that exihbited similar charactaristics.  It ran fine for months before it hopped the tracks on the diverging route of a Peco turnout.  I suspect he may have monkeyed with it a little.  Unfortuneatly no one noticed until we smelled that wonderful acrid blue smoke of dead decoder. Sigh Insufficient feeders killed the locomotive (didnt trip CB), and since it was underwarranty he sent it back and got a replacement.  Now as to your problem: 

Have you checked the front coupler height with a coupler height gauge?  The trip pin may have hit the rail that crosses infront of the locomotive and de-railed it.

I would also look at what CTValleyRR is saying.  Either the drawbar between locomotive and tender isnt properly adjusted in hieght (you can fix this by tightening the screw on the tender (it should be spring loaded), or seeing if there is any play in the wires.  If the Drawbar is correct, it may be too tight and causing the locomotive to derail.

Also check that the drawbar is not hitting the wires when you go around corners. 

Minor manufacturing differences can bring out even the slightest trackwork deficiencies on any layout.  What may work for every other piece of rolling stock may not be good enough for something new, or older in design.  Peco turnouts from my experience are pretty bullet proof, as long as you assure continuity of electrical power and dont rely on points for power. 

 

 

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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, July 26, 2014 2:01 PM

Had a similar problem on a Spectrum engine. Turns out the wires between the tender and the enginge were placed wrong and were too long, this happened on two out of three locos and only fiqured it out by compairing the three, still required some minor adjusting till they ran perfect.

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Posted by Doug from Michigan on Saturday, July 26, 2014 2:26 PM

I bought a new BLI K4 back in December that had that surging motion goin on.  In less than 4 weeks it developed a cracked gear.  I had it factory repaired and it runs like a dream now.

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Posted by Colorado_Mac on Saturday, July 26, 2014 5:05 PM

CTValleyRR

It turned out that the tender was causing the loco to pop a wheelie.  

I had the same problem once with a (Bachmann, I think) 2-8-0.  In my case, the tender drawbar had two holes to attach to the pin on the loco, one for closer - more prototypical - spacing and one for sharper curves.  My curves were not sharp, so I set it in the closer hole.  However, this resulted in a very "stiff" loco/tender, and if there was the slightest dip in the track, the front wheels couldn't follow it and sometimes slipped off the rails.  Connected together on the less-prototypical setting, it never failed.

Sean

HO Scale CSX Modeler

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