Procrastination on my first layout; Where do I start?

[hellwarrior]

Thanks everybody for answering my post and helping me getting started.  Here are my replies to each one of you.

last mountain & eastern hogger

I can say that I have been there and done that.  I know my thoughts might not be the norm, but I feel I wasted about three years in planning my last (retirement) layout.

Once I got that planning out of my head things have moved ahead quite well.  Three things you must decide on is Scale, point to point, or continuos running.  Once you have that in place then you can determine rough radii for your curves.

Yes last mountain & eastern hogger you are not the first one that tell me to start doing something instead of always thinking and planning.  Planning is good but I will need to start soon.

last mountain & eastern hogger

From what I read in your statement, I would build your layout at about 50" in height so that the track caan go right over top of your work station.    Make those descions and start building that section of bench work as there you will have a definate width that you will want to use to keep the work station as usable as it can be and not being a head knocker.

I just measured the 50 inches like you said and it’s not high enough.  I mesure 5’9 and I will knock my head all the time while working or modeling on my desk.  I think 54 inches would be a lot better.  Do you suggest to put all my layout at 54 inches high or just a part of it?

last mountain & eastern hogger

There you can get some track down (not permanently) but place it down so you can run some trains.  That alone will spur you on and ideas will develope more readily and acurrately.  Then as those plans formulate you can keep extending your modules as you see fit. Either straight, L shaped, U shaped or around the room for continous running.  There are several different ways of getting by the doorway, but that can be discussed later.

Start with that and you won't go wrong.  Remember that there isn't anything in model railroading that can't be re-done.. We do it all the time until we like the way it looks.

Good luck and Happy Rails to you.

Thanks again last mountain & eastern hogger.

DigitalGriffin

a simple google search yielded this:

http://www.railmodeller.com/

But I know nothing of it.  According to their website they support Peco and Atlas N scale track. (as well as a few others)

Lion is right, your layout will change a lot over the long haul.  I went through 40 major design attempts (over a year) before I settled on one (yes I'm serious)  But programs like this make your life easier because it allows you to implement John Allen's "By the squares" technique a lot easier until you find the one you like.

Thanks DigitalGriffin.  

Have you tried this software or are there members here that have tried this software or another better one?  

Do you have an article or a link that explains the by the square technique?

zstripe

Hellwarrior,

An idea: You did not mention, how high you are going to have your layout, but I incorporated my desk, ''work shop, computor area'' with a 8&1/2 inch back wall, on top of which is my double track main line, with one double ended siding, block control, so I can turn it off, or test engines. While I am at my desk, the trains are running right over part of my desk, sorta like, killing two bird's with one stone.

Hi zstipe.  Some members suggested me to put my layout at 5 feet high to let me add my computer and modeling desk just under.  Like you did.  I’m curious.  Is it possible to post some pictures of your layout and to show me how does your desk looks like with the layout on the top?  It would help me a lot.

And retirement is not going to be soon for me.  I’m 43 ;)

dave v

I didn't plan anything for my layout, I purchased ANYRAIL5 software and began playing with it. My Nscale layout is in my garage and the first thing I did was go to home depot to buy 1x3's and 3/8" plywood. I built 24"x96" tables and screwed them together,after I figured out what shape would please me most. I attached the panels to the walls @ about 54" off the floor for visuals and proceeded to ANYRAIL5 for track layout. after I was satisfied, I saved all progress and Printed just the TRACK plan to 1:1 and layed it all out on my recently installed benchwork. From then on it was all about purchasing track, turnouts, roadbed etc. I started all of this in April,2013 and I love it! I watch alot of YOUTUBE, Great instructional videos! YOU CAN'T RUN TRAINS IF YOU DON'T GET STARTED!

I would love to have a software to help me.  I have an old mac version 10.5.8 and Anyrail told me they don’t support Mac computers.

I’m also thinking of joining two 24x96 “ tables together and adding another part.  

Thanks for the youtube tips.  Do you know of any youtube people or companies I should follow?

rrebell

The best planning guide you can get besides graph paper is get a bunch of cheap sectional track, the stuff nobody wants. You can lay it down and get a feel of the way the track will run. They don't need to all connect and the most important are those of your min. radius.

Hi rrebell!  Speaking of cheap sectional track, do you any name in mind?

BroadwayLion

YOU CAN'T RUN TRAINS IF YOU DON'T GET STARTED!

 It is always a marvel to run your first loco on your first layout. I have a dummy loco that I used for testing tracks as I built them. Put all of your track nails in a hopper car and move them aroud with you as you build. It is more fun that way.

 

Hi BroadwayLion!  I don’t understand what you mean by putting all my track in a hopper and move them around with me?  Sorry but sometimes I have difficulties to understand expressions in english ;)

G Paine

First, I would like to congratulate you on your progress so far; you have a focus on what you want to model. You want:

•Scale: N

•Location:a region of Quebec called the Laurentides or another region called Estrie

•Timeframe: mid-seventies

•Road names: Canadian National and VIA Rail (good choice, lots of locos and roolomg stock available)

•Type of layout: around the walls of a 11.5 feet by 10.5 feet roon with clearance for a desk

•What to model: small city or village, industries, a freight yard,  forest, a bridge and a tunnel

This is a GREAT start, much further on than many who ask advise from us.

Thanks G Paine!  In fact, I think it wont be possible to have an around the wall layout because I have a huge window that starts at about one foot high and putting the layout in front will not be very good and practical.  I should post some pictures of my room to give you an idea.

G Paine

For a first layout, an around the walls is an ambitious project for a beginner. As someone mentioed above, maybe you should lay down some track and run some trains. I say this because most people on the first layout will rip it out with a year or so, and start over because of improvments in their modeling skills. I would recommend you buy a hollow core door, put some legs under it and start building somethig simple with the idea it is a learning experience. Getting your hands dirty is the best way to to start RR modeling.

One reference I recommend for layout design is "Track Planning for REalistic Operation" by John Armstrong. IN particular, chapters 6 and 7 give a lot of detail on track standards with respect to curve radius, grades, easments, vertical clearances, etc. Curve radius is particularly important fro runnig long cars like passenger cars. Ch 7 introduces the concept of Squares in design, where a Square is a set of dimensions that will fit a quarter of a circle of a certaim radius. For instance, in N scale conventional curves are 16" and broad curves are 20".

ANother excellent reference is "Basic Model Railroad Benchwork" by Jeff Wilson. This book replaces "How to Build Model Railroad" that was around for many decades. This book will describe how to build benchwork that is strong, economical in materials, and flexible in design.

Thanks again for the tips.  I just had another idea.  What if I start by building a very small layout of 10”x72”.  It’s a shelf in my living room.  I tought about creating a little railroad diorama on it but because it is so small I may not be able to run the train.  It could be just a decoration.  By building this small layout I could learn and improve my track installation, structure building, scenery and painting.  And I could do this shelf and my layout at the same time.

What do you think?

Here is a photo of my shelf:

NittanyLion

The way I see it, there's ultimately two ways to start.

If your goal is involving directly duplicating or heavily inspired by a real physical location, time to get a lot of researching done and developing the track plan.

Or

If your goal is just getting the right feel for an area, there's a lot to be said of building your loop or whatever and letting it grow organically from there.

Hi NittanyLion!  Because I’m a beginner I think the second option would be better.  I will also have to do some research to be able to recreate a natural looking environment ...  But building an hypothetical area could be the best thing for me now.

dknelson

I was in classic "analysis paralysis" for years, with ideas so totally impractical and grandiose that even I knew better than to start laying any track.

The "aha!" moment for me was David Barrow's classic series of articles on planning and building using benchwork dominos.  His point is that the domino sections are all the same size, so you can easily "plan" on graph paper using the assumption that the entire layout will be a sequence of 2'x4' domino pieces.  I used one inch graph paper cut to the size of my room and mounted on heavy stock, and made 2"x4" dominos out of cardstock to actually see what I could do in my room.  It did look like a big domino game!

Moreover you can start building the dominos before you do any track planning, and that is what I did.  Eventually I had over a dozen, and I could move them around my basement like chess pieces, trying this and that arrangement.

Hi Dave!  The domino technique is a very good idea.  Thanks for bringing the idea to me.  Now I have a domino technique and a by the square technique to try :)

dstarr

Have you read Track Planning for Realistic Operation by John Armstrong?  That's the bible, and has extensive discussions of every layout building topic.

I bought this book and started to read it but I find it hard to understand sometimes probably because english is not my first language.

dstarr

Your two choices are a table in the middle of the room, or an around the walls layout.  A table in the middle of the room is simpliest, but is kinda limited to 4 * 8, mostly cause you can only reach in a couple of feet from the table edge to rerail trains, erect structures, paint and scenick.  And you have to have clearance all around it, if you push one side up against the wall, you find you cannot reach stuff.  Four by eight is small, but plenty of fine model railroads have been built on a four by eight table.  Someone called the four by eight the haiku of model railroading.

Ok I understand.

dstarr

The other  approach is a round the walls layout.  This will give you a lot more railroad in your 10 by 11 foot room than a table will.  It will also make greater demands upon your carpentry skills.  There are more legs, more pieces, more cutting to size, more work in going clean around the walls.  My layout is around the walls, but I am a pretty fair carpenter and I have things like a radial arm saw.

I’m not very good with my hands and craftsmanship so I don’t think my first layout will be an around the room.  If I do one like this I will need the help from my friends.

dstarr

For around the wall layouts, there is always the problem of the door.  If you run tracks across the doorway it's hard to get in and out of the room.  I built a liftout section, it works, but it takes  a lot of fiddling to get it to lift out or plunk back into place.  Humidity changes from summer to heating season swell and shrink things, it is loose in winter and sticky in summer.

I also have a humidity problem here in the summer.  I think I should buy a small air conditionning for my room.

dstarr

The most straight forward way to operate two trains at the same time is to have a double track mainline.  You will also want as many staging tracks as you can fit in.  Staging tracks allow you to have several trains on the track, coupled up, ready to run, and you can switch trains by merely parking one on an empty staging track and bringing another out onto the main from a staging track.

What do you mean exactly by a double track mainline?  I’m a visual so if you have photos of a double track mainline and of your layout it will help me a lot :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

angelob6660

By reading your old and new forum I suggest that you create a two door layout. Make sure the doors is 3 feet by 80. You don't need a run  around shelf layout. It will leave enough room for your desk and window without problems. You can always add more space by adding another section when needed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Plan it out first you can easily make it a 3 to 4 diesel train set in Canada in no time. The length of train can easily be 18 to 20 cars with 2 diesels. With an easy DCC system powering up to 20 different locomotives.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               I hope this helps making your decision easier to make than a around the room shelf layout.

Hi angelob6660!  Are you serious?  You think I have enough room for having 3 to 4 diesel train working :)  I tought it was too small for having two trains ;)

gregc

DigitalGriffin 

I remember a study somewhere where they said the quicker you get some simple track down to actually run trains, the more likely you are to stay in the hobby.

 

 

for a realistic perspective i suggest you read Learning from Experience in the March Model Roader by Pelle Soeborg.   I was surprised how simple his latest railroad is and, as he discusses, the shortcomings of his previous one.

So get started and learn as much as you can, so you can start planning your next layout.

I just read this article.  Thanks gregc.

UPinCT

Tack down a circle of track, run some trains, add a siding or 2. Have some fun and develope some skills..............

I think Jim's advice is the best.

You don't have to build a giant layout to start.  Get started with a simple layout and develop your skills.

Good Luck, Derek

Thanks Derek.  I will start soon.  I promise because I want to stay in this hobby :)

P&Slocal

You have been given some excellent ideas here and it seems you know what you want. All you have to do is get to work. Check at the local hobby shop and see if there are any guys (or ladies) who might be willing to give you tips or hints on anything you are having trouble with. Some are willing to guide you along, some aren't. In the event someone does help you along, show them your appreciation for the help.

Thanks P&Slocal!  Yes, I received a lot of very good advices from everybody.  I want to thank you all.  I’m glad to be on this forum with you.

Speaking of women, I never saw any in this hobby.  Are there women here too on the forum? ;)

bigpianoguy

Don't start; keep reading. Or get out & have a life.

Because, once you start, it will never end. You might think it's almost done, then someone will come out with THE perfect whatever, perfect for your layout, if you just get some more track & re-light those buildings and run a tunnel through there...

Oh well, I tried...

But that’s a fun hobby so who cares :)  But yes bigpianoguy you are right in that I should also put my energy outside my house and have a life too.

dave v

now I am proud to say after 41 years of procrastinating,wishing and wanting I am running trains!!!!!! Point is, if you truly want to run trains- you will get it done!

Thanks dave v!  I will run trains :)

dave v

There is A TON of useful and instructional videos on YOU TUBE, in fact that is where I get inspiration, motivation and all kinds of great ideas on everything from layout planning and benchwork to track laying, dc/dcc, structure building and weathering. There are super working layouts to simple switching layouts. Decoder installations to making plaster castings and foam rocks. You tube is a very valuable resource

Do you have some youtube links that I should be following?

dave v

Jump in head first! don't be scared! this is the GREATEST HOBBY IN THE WORLD! I was very reserved before I jumped in, how? where? can I?, Once i jumped in it was quite easy! In fact the only real challenge is trying not to quit my job so I can work full time on my layout! I would love to be a full time model railroader! Once it gets into your system it becomes an addiction, at least for me anyway. I'm looking forward to reading about your progress

My only fear is that I’m bad with carpentry, know nothing of electricity and nothing of electronic.  I think I will be better at modeling structure and scenery but I want to learn and improve.

narrow gauge nuclear

You are right to read and read first.  Plan second.  Build only slowly and with a predetermined ultimate goal based on reading and planning.  I am in your boat currently.  I have built a decent amount, but may start over or at least have a major rework.  This is normal as no matter how much you read and plan, new and better ideas come quickly and by building slowly you can alter things with a minimal amount of effort required to alter your plans, but never your goal.

No one can advise where or when to start, that is your decision, but don't wait too long or you might lose your inspiration.  Once you get something down even if undecorated, RUN some trains, even if just forward and back again to keep you moving and thinking.

Yes you are right narrow gauge nuclear.  I have to do something soon because I don’t want to loose my inspiration.  Normally, I’m the kind of guy that takes his time to build things slowly.  

Well, that was a lot of helping messages.  Thank you guys ... and girls if you are there too ;)

[hellwarrior]

Maybe my reply was too long ;)

[hellwarrior]

What do you think of me starting my first layout with that shelf?  Take a look at this picture.

[hellwarrior]

Nobody has any suggestion for this shelf?

[ALEX WARSHAL]

It's ok, it would be a little bit hard. You would probably have to do point-to-point switching, and use building flats or low relief buildings. But it could work.

[bigpianoguy]

My reply was meant as a mild jest - of course it's a fun hobby!

I also have a layout built around the walls - but 8 feet up in the air (10 ft. ceilings!), so I avoid all the doors - but not all the windows - in this 130 year old building. Most of the track is on a shelf 7" wide; the widest portion is only 22 inches wide (my yard); the station area is a little smaller. I'm using 3/4" wood as my base & the whole thing is held up by regular shelf supports. Remember, with model trains, you're not going to be standing on it so they can be really light.

There's pics of it in my ongoing post in  the 'Layouts' forum, called Up in the Air: the Continuing Story etc. etc...if you'd like to see my progress.

Paul

[ACY Tom]

The shelf might be OK for a display, but there's not much space to do any real operating.  Also, it's pretty low.  I'd be afraid somebody would bump into it and send your models crashing to the floor unless you put some kind of protection around them.  Maybe it could work for static display if the shelf were raised to chest level.

[Mister Mikado]

Here's how I started planning. I picked a scale ratio, in my case one inch equals one foot. Then I cut scale radius guides out of cardboard, one for 18", 21", 23" and so on, or use software. Eventually my whole layout was on a sheet of 8.5X11 white cardboard, but go bigger if desired. Then the fun part--I duplicated the plan in double size on thicker cardboard and elevated the roadbed, adding mountains made of tissue paper to see the lay of the pike. A wonderfully fun experience. Easy to modify too before the first track gets laid down.

[cowman]

Another problem I see is that it appears you would have to have your wires on the surface, since that appears to be a finished, solid top.

You could frame a piece of plywood to set on top of that.  It would give you a place for wires and not disturb your current decor.  Could also add scenic elements to take ot a step above plywood central.

It does look like a small switching layout is all you can put on that.  However, if planned right, it could easily be added to when you have space.  You could look at some of the switching puzzles to keep you busy in a small space.

Have fun,

Richard

[dave v]

CSX Dixie line is a good website, it is all N scale. log on to you tube and search N scale model railroading, from there You just click on whatever it is you want to know, you can subscribe to all sorts of channels! GITR DONE!

[hellwarrior]

Finally I have decided to go ahead and start small.

[ACY Tom]

I've never done any work in N scale, but it seems that 22" would be wide enough for a turnback turn at each end.  This would give you curves of 9" radius, which should be adequate for 4-axle locomotives.  You might have trouble with 6-axle locos and full-length passenger cars.  N scalers can give you a better answer on those items.  I can imagine a mainline track along the back wall, possibly elevated, with curves at the end bringing the track closer to the front.  Then your yard and switching area would be up front where it's easily accessible.  I still would urge you to protect whatever is on the nearest track by putting a plexiglass fence along the fascia, or something like that.  The extra 12" width by the window could provide space for a broader radius turnback curve; an industry of some sort (possibly inside that broader curve); an engine terminal; or just about anything your imagination & preferences can cook up.  

[hellwarrior]

Thanks ACY for your help.

[Phoebe Vet]

Draw up a plan.  Take a while to daydream about modifications to the plan.  Buy a computer program and transfer the plan to that.  Modify it some more.  Throw the plan out and draw a new one because the more you think about it the more you want something different.  After a while you will get tired of working on the plan and will take up golf and just admire other people's layouts.  It's called "analysis paralysis".

...OR ... You can build some bench work and get some trains running.  Then you can add scenery as you decide what you want long term.  As long as the scenery is incomplete, changes to track and ROW are easy to do.  The running trains will keep you interested.  The process of building scenery on one segment will give you ideas for other segments.

[richhotrain]

hellwarrior

Hello!  Since the last months, I have not really done nothing more than read, read and read about model railroads.  Now is the time to do something but I'm always procrastinating because I feel there is so much I have to do that I can't tell where to really start.

But my first question is, where do I start from now?

If there ever was an argument for just jumping in and getting started, this is it.

 

I think that someone with an existing layout may be more inclined to procrastinate than a first time modeler.  Just do it.  Lay some track, wire in some feeders, add some turnouts, do some ballasting and basic landscaping.  Build a simple structure, paint it, weather it, add it track side.  Learn from your mistakes. Keep what you like, discard the rest, then start over if you must.

 

Rich 

[hellwarrior]

Finally, it's been more than a year since this post and I haven't done anything until now.  I need to stop procrastination.  Another of my problem is that I have probably too many hobbies and I can't put the time into each of them.  I should discard a few and put more energy on model railroading and a few others.

[richhotrain]

It's Spring, too late to start now.  Start in November when the weather forces most of us indoors.

Rich

[hellwarrior]

You are right Rich but I want to start soon.

[richhotrain]

November.

[ACY Tom]

Possible bumper stickers:

     Procrastination is something you can do right now. 

     Don't put it off: Procrastinate NOW. 

     There's always time for procrastination.

[superbe]

Once you start the layout procrastination isn't behind you. Just you wait.

I've been procrastinating about weathering track for months and that isn't the only thing I've put off

Bob

 

[hellwarrior]

Thanks guys!

[hellwarrior]

Well it's two years later and I have done nothing in model railroading. I am procrastinating too much, just reading, not doing anything.

I think I should just do baby steps and after a while it's going to be easier for me.

[superbe]

Baby Steps????????

Please prove me wrong, but I don't think you will have trains running a year from now.

Good Luck and Happy Rail Roading.

Bob

[Anonymous]

hellwarrior

Well it's two years later and I have done nothing in model railroading. I am procrastinating too much, just reading, not doing anything.

I spent about a year and a half from the time I identified that I wanted to build a layout until I finally started work.  The biggest delay was finding adequate space.  Picking a prototype railroad (not a requirement, but makes things less expensive in the long run) was also a roadblock for me.  As you can see by my signature line Im modeling 3 railroads in 2 different time periods in 2 scales.  Considering a 4th railroad in a different scale for a future layout. 

I havent read much of your original posting from 2 years ago, but my suggestion is to look at what research material you have gathered (you said you spend a lot of time reading) and see if there is a trend towards a specific prototype interest, either actual railroad or type of railroading (narrow guage, mountain railroading, primarily coal hauling, lumber co rr, bridge line (connecting to other lines), etc).

I did notice you were planning on building a small layout on a shelf.  Not a bad place to begin.  I would like to point out that working at your shelf height (appears 30" or so, please correct me if I'm wrong) might be a little bit straining on the back for operating. 

Edit: Upon further review of your previous posts, I can not find where you have said what scale you are modeling?  

Also you might want to think about what you like the best, sitting back and watching a train run through scenery or performing switching, or a little of both?

The answer to this question will influence your decision on what scale will allow you to accomplish what you want to do in the space you have.  

 

 

[BigDaddy]

You have analysis paralysis.

I don't know N-scale but you need to construct a circle of track with whatever is considered the minimum and run a train.  Once you see things moving, you are going to want it to be more interesting, with turnouts, scenery and buildings.  Have you come up with any sort of plan in 2 years?  If not set a goal, say 5 track plans in the next 2 months.  Get back to us with your best design.

Since you have more room than that little shelf you showed, you need to plan for what you stated in your first post.  Basic track laying, soldering and wiring is model railroading.  It is not brain surgery.  If it doesn't work pull it up and start over. 

[angelob6660]

By rereading this you haven't said if you have any locomotives or rolling stock.

Are you serious in model railroading? Is your room open or clutted with junk? 

Get a starter track plan book doesn't matter which one, pick a layout and model it. I don't care if it's 4x8 or less.