richhotrain zstripe Just call me an ''Old Geezer'' but my years in the hobby came from the building part of it, whether it be, trains, trucks, model cars and ships. I receieved more sastisfaction and fun building them, then playing with them, regardless of time involved. If anything, that is what is dying in the Hobby, A lot of people have this, I want it now attitude. Just My Old man Opinion. Please don't say, I don't have the time. Frank I don't have the time. Rich
zstripe Just call me an ''Old Geezer'' but my years in the hobby came from the building part of it, whether it be, trains, trucks, model cars and ships. I receieved more sastisfaction and fun building them, then playing with them, regardless of time involved. If anything, that is what is dying in the Hobby, A lot of people have this, I want it now attitude. Just My Old man Opinion. Please don't say, I don't have the time. Frank
Just call me an ''Old Geezer'' but my years in the hobby came from the building part of it, whether it be, trains, trucks, model cars and ships. I receieved more sastisfaction and fun building them, then playing with them, regardless of time involved. If anything, that is what is dying in the Hobby, A lot of people have this, I want it now attitude. Just My Old man Opinion. Please don't say, I don't have the time.
Frank
I don't have the time.
Rich
Somehow you found the time, to type in a reply.
[quote user="bruce22"]
Just finished watching Cody's Office .He reviewed a r.t.r freight car that sells in the $40. range. Well detailed etc. etc and no doubt worth the money. However can newcomers to our hobby afford this and are many potential newcomers put off getting involved by these prices. I bought my first Mantua loco,the Booster, more years ago than I wish to remember and over the years most of my rolling stock was of the Athearn blue box type, with added detail if I thought or felt it was necessary. It wasn't until I retired 12 yrs ago that I went full steam ahead in this hobby and now have a two level 20ft X 16ft ell shaped virtually complete layout in my garage. I have begun to update and replace my rolling stock but am frustrated by the lack of reasonably priced kits on the market. Personally I think there must be a demand for somewhat realistically detailed kits in the $20 range that fill the void created when the blue box type of kit dissppeared. If they are available please let me know. For what it's worth, just my opinion.
I want it now
Jim
BroadwayLionAtheran Blu-box cars were $4.00 modern cars are $40.00.
LOL..I was buying them for $1.50 in the 60s and $2.95 in the late 70s.$4.00 sounds like the 90 prices.
In the 60s $3.00 would get you into the movies with popcorn and pop and after the show 2 McDonald's cheeseburgers and a milkshake.
When I was 15 I was making $150.00 a week during the summer doing a man's job...It was hard work unloading boxcars.
Yes,I lied about my age.You had to be 17.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
For many of us that live in areas where the local hobby shops no longer cater to model railroaders. They are mainly serving those into crafts and RC vehicles and airplanes. The best we see locally is around Christman for a short while.
Just about every town used to have one or more hobby shops and all, or most of them did carry a certain amount of model railroad items. However, the amount of model railroad items has diminished and many of the hobby shops themselves are gone.
E-Bay did fill a void for a lot of us, however, shipping costs have risen. also for what ever reason E-Bay has demanded that there vendors use Priority Mail. (That is what I have been told by E-Bay Vendors , so that the much cheaper First Class Mail is not available. That means a $10.00 item will now cost someone living in Canada buying from a US vendor $20 to $30 for postage.
There is still the odd vendor who will ship a $10.00 item by First Class for $6-$7, but they are getting to be fewer all the time. Also E-Bay now is puching as the default carrier to their vendors the Global Shipping method which now costs Canadian purchasers Brokers fees and taxes that for the most part on cheaper items where never even collected (Cheaper used to be less than $100.
No doubt in my mind that I use E-Bay less and less and now rely mainly on the on-line speciallty stores as my main stay.
That means the large on-line distributors such as Trains and Such to meet my needs and allow me to pay discount prices are my main means to buy model railroad items.
The nearest train shows for most of us living in small towns in the interor of the provinces are located in much larger cities which are in many cases 500 miles away. That means planning way in advance to attend these. I do go to at least one train show ever year or two. When I do I usually load up on kits for rolling stock and buildings at quire reasonable prices.
In my case it it were not for Micro Mart or Trains and Such I would not have a model Railroad layout as my main hobby outlet.
alco_fan Blue Box are/were junk.
I won't even honor that comment with a rebuttal. Nuff said.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
don7 For many of us that live in areas where the local hobby shops no longer cater to model railroaders. They are mainly serving those into crafts and RC vehicles and airplanes. The best we see locally is around Christman for a short while.
I guess I am lucky in that my favorite LHS sells trains exclusively and there are two others within walking distance of it that aren't strictly trains but still have a very good selection. I used to live about five minutes from the first one but about 12 years ago, I moved out into the country and it's about a 45 minute drive to get there.
alco_fan Blue Box are/were junk. And there are still thousands around for resale if you really want them.
I had two issues with Athearn BB kits. One was that it was hard to get the couplers to the correct height. It was only years later that I learned that often the metal weight that ran the length of the car wasn't always perfectly flat and if it was bowed, the plastic floor would follow its contour making correct coupler height almost impossible. Once I learned to bend that weight until it was flat, that problem was taken care of.
The other flaw which continues with the RTR line is the metal clip that goes over the coupler pocket. You had to be extremely carely removing it or you would strip the plastic nubs that held it in place. That is a bigger issue with the RTR since the couplers are junk and need to be replaced. At least with the kits, you could put a KD in it from the start and never have to mess with the removing that metal clip.
I like Accurail now. It looks as good as the Athearn BB without the above flaws. I can throw one together in no more than 10 minutes with KD 148 couplers. I also swap out the wheels with Proto 2000s.
Hello Bruce,
Inspite of the criticisms you're receiving, I think that a good number modelers that are over the age of 30 have experienced the feelilngs that you have expressed. I know I have, but once I took into account how the economy, adjustments for inflation, demands for precise tooling, and outsourcing have changed things drastically it was easier to understand the current pricing structures.
As mentioned, we still have Bowser and Accurail as well as ebay. I've gotten rolling stock and locomotives from ebay (mostly new) at good prices.
bruce22 Just finished watching Cody's Office .He reviewed a r.t.r freight car that sells in the $40. range. Well detailed etc. etc and no doubt worth the money. However can newcomers to our hobby afford this and are many potential newcomers put off getting involved by these prices. I bought my first Mantua loco,the Booster, more years ago than I wish to remember and over the years most of my rolling stock was of the Athearn blue box type, with added detail if I thought or felt it was necessary. It wasn't until I retired 12 yrs ago that I went full steam ahead in this hobby and now have a two level 20ft X 16ft ell shaped virtually complete layout in my garage. I have begun to update and replace my rolling stock but am frustrated by the lack of reasonably priced kits on the market. Personally I think there must be a demand for somewhat realistically detailed kits in the $20 range that fill the void created when the blue box type of kit dissppeared. If they are available please let me know. For what it's worth, just my opinion.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
I have a lot of BB cars, mostly hoppers - they must be a little different, never had any of them have couple issues. Most of the time the couple rclips stay on unless you really bash the cars when coupling or drop them - the trick is to pinch them in a little bfore installing. Whisker couplers make the whole process easier, since you don;t have to worry about the pan spring AND the coupler AND the lid. All else fails, just drill a hole and use a screw. A-Line has a jig for doing it, but it's not absolutely required.
The only car I think I ever had that the weight bowed it and made the coupler height wrong, was a Walthers Trainline, ex Train Miniature, RTR. The weight in that was a complete mess. I have a TM kit of the same car that went together just fine with no issues.
Coupler mounting seems to have greatly improved over the years - there was a reason Kadee has som many variations of couplers - you needed them, unless you only bought one brand of rolling stock. Nowdays there's very little that needs other than the medium center-set shank, aka #5 or #148 if you like the new whisker ones.
Another source of detailed kits is Funero and Camerlengo's line of resin kits. At their booth at shows they usually sell 3 kits for $20 or so, not their entire line, but a good variety. Still have to add trucks dna couplers though, and they are definitely more difficult than a BB or Accurail kit.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker I have a lot of BB cars, mostly hoppers - they must be a little different, never had any of them have coupler issues. Most of the time the couple clips stay on unless you really bash the cars when coupling or drop them - the trick is to pinch them in a little bfore installing.
I have a lot of BB cars, mostly hoppers - they must be a little different, never had any of them have coupler issues. Most of the time the couple clips stay on unless you really bash the cars when coupling or drop them - the trick is to pinch them in a little bfore installing.
That's been my experience as well. Just pinch them a little before installing them. It is not so much the plastic nubs wearing down as it is the metal clips spreading too wide to hold.
Alton Junction
alco_fanBlue Box are/were junk.
An extreme opinion that I suspect isn't greatly shared.
Normally I wouldn't bite but nothing like a thow the verbal hand grenade into the conversation and see what splatters remark.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Market is fine. Building models is still fun. The younger generations enjoy the technical side of the hobby instead of hunching over an opti-visor with an exacto knife in hand. Gross generalization. Also true.
And my personal favorite, $99.98 dollars MSRP for an Athearn Genesis caboose.
Oh, it's got a small light in it. Imagine my surprise. Well, there ya go.
hobo9941 And my personal favorite, $99.98 dollars MSRP for an Athearn Genesis caboose. Oh, it's got a small light in it. Imagine my surprise. Well, there ya go.
Well yeah, it's $19.98 for the caboose, $1.00 for the little light, and $79.00 labor for the little ho scale worker to screw the bulb into place....
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
I'm right there with you on this. Maybe not an old geezer yet, but I'm getting close!
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
Most of my cars are either Red Caboose or MDC. They were all kits, as I would rather build than anything. The Red Caboose kits cost, for example, around $10 and by the time I add Kadee trucks and couplers, I still have less than $20 in each one. Plus, I get to have great fun building them. The MDC cars that I have are mostly around $12 equipped with the Kadee stuff.
The last show that I went to, I picked up a number of NIB Red Caboose kits for $7.00 each.
LION never considered Blue Box et al to be "kits". They were models that required a little assembly. No skill involved. Shake the box, and out comes your model.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLion LION never considered Blue Box et al to be "kits". They were models that required a little assembly. No skill involved. Shake the box, and out comes your model. ROAR
Actually there was more to the BB kit then shaking the box..It was best to inspect the frame and weight for warpage before assembling the kit..If these was warp you had a rough time getting the couplers at the correct height and the some times the car could be prone to derailing.
Whoa Should I say "Deja' Vue" or, "Wow it's been a whole 6 months since I saw a post like this"? RTR is expensive. You are paying for the convenience and instant satisfaction. And for people who have two kids who just want to run trains down at their club, then "you bet ya, it's worth it!"
For the retirees who have more time, then kits provide great satisfaction.
That said, market controls manufactures direction. If people don't buy it, then they won't make it. And I do find that certain RTR stock are getting out of control. They are approaching used brass prices. (I've seen $80.00 for some passenger cars) When you have a fleet of passenger cars, that adds up. So, lately, I've been going to Atlas Branchline and used Rapido cars.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Thats a straw man argument once again.
Anyone can show examples of models which are expensive, but thats not what the OP is complaining about. It's lack of cheaper models, which we've already demonstrated is false - you just have to look in the right places and you'll find more than you'd ever need.
Shooting down the Genesis Bay Window caboose, which can be compared to brass in detail and features, is just silliness. I tell you what, as an SP fan I'm happy to be able to pick up a few of those beauties for discount prices of approx $50 each - yes they even have the lights and pick-ups in them, just no decoder.
Enjoy yourself Hobo.
As for blue box its, I was pretty appalled at the comment that they were junk so at the time didn't say anything. It sounds like something coming from an unreasonable person who is used to only the finest things in life, like the Lovelesses on that British comedy show who keep Geordie people from the poor part of north England as pets, and go on posh holidays etc.
Obviously it is silly to call Athearn blue box trains junk. They are obviously not. They are a product of their time, and not of the same level of detail and fidelity as your more expensive HQ trains of the past 10-15. I think Athearn bb serve many people very well, and are durable too. As for the coupler boxes and height, those are not difficult things to tweak. I've found some of my kits to be a bit warped and not come out right. I simply just bent them gently until they were straight and the couplers would be a the correct height, usually with the help of KD fiber washers. If the clips that held the couplers on didn't stay, you could simply pinch them a bit with needle nose pliers and they would stay on fine.
They are not pricing themselves out of the market. People scrounging for old-stock blue box kits and tyco junk are not "the market".
Agered. It's not modeling, it's assembly line work.
I think everuone is missing the point of the materials used to make the models. With the price of oil so unstable,it can cause the price of the plastic used to cost a lot more.Please remember that in days gone by,we had cheeper oil which made for equally cheeper plastic.I am no chemical engineer,but it takes quite a bit of oil to make plastic.Government regulations on refineries and chemical plants also add to the cost.Just some thoughts from a modeler that has come to enjoy scratch building in his old age.
With a precision of a Swiss watch, the topic of cost of hobby pops up in various guises - usually, there is a lot of whining about high prices.
I have posted it before, and I will most likely state it again - you folks over the Big Pond are still spoiled rotten when it comes to prices for locos and rolling stock. Add about 50 % to the MSRP and you get a feeling for what we have to lay out in cash for our hobby. I am not complaining or ranting about this. At the end, our hobby is as expensive as we want to let it get.
MRRing can be done on a shoestring budget, if you are prepared to adjust your needs and wants to that and you go into scratchbuilding. I have seen fantastically detailed locos build from cardboard! There are lots of free or cheap materials available for the scratchbuilder.
riogrande5761 If the clips that held the couplers on didn't stay, you could simply pinch them a bit with needle nose pliers and they would stay on fine.
The problem wasn't with the metal clips. It was with the little plastic nubs that held the clip in place. When I began in the hobby, hornhooks were the standard and KDs were an upgrade. If you went with KDs from the start, it wasn't an issue because the nubs held the clip usually worked fine when the kit was first assembled. It was when you went to retrofit the couplers and had to remove the metal clip that problems could occur. You had to be extremely careful when prying the metal clip off so you didn't strip one or both of those plastic nubs. If you did, the coupler pocket was pretty much toast and you had to cut it off and replace it with a KD coupler pocket and cover and hope you had something solid to drill a screw hole into. Now with their RTR line, that is once again an issue because the factory couplers are junk and need to be replaced for reliable operation.
I agree with you that Athearn BB were not junk, but that coupler assembler was a poor idea. Accurail got that part right. A simple pocket, cover, and a screw to hold it in place. I wish it was the standard for all rolling stock. Regardless of how much or how little detail is on a car, if the couplers aren't reliable, it's going to be a source of frustration.
Don;t forget the screws in Accurail kits is a fairly recent innovation - mine have all included on the sprue the old plastic pins that used to hold the trucks on - sort of. Talk about falling out. I guess it made the model more realistic, since real railcars don;t have the trucks screwed to the car floor. And their couple boxes used to just press in place. They fell off easier than the clips on BB cars. Good thing Kadees rarely actually break, a careful spot of glue would hold the Accurail lids on and not interfere witht he coupler, but if you ever had to remove the coupler, good luck. Now that they have screws, MUCH better.
Milepost 266.2 They are not pricing themselves out of the market. People scrounging for old-stock blue box kits and tyco junk are not "the market".
If you're happy thinking that.
The few thousands that's still shelling out mega dineros for freight cars will see their ranks start dwindling in the coming months..
Everybody has a price limit and that means a stopping point which equals lost sales..