Exactly, jmb. Yea, I'd love to have more layout in the space constraints that I currently have here at home. However, HO is a reasonable and suitable compromise that offers me much more variety and choices in my particular era. From my standpoint, N-scale - as is - is much more friendly to post-steam eras and I don't expect that to change anytime soon.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
cuyamaThere are far fewer active N scalers on this forum than on others such as Railwire and Trainboard. If you asked your question there, you would have a more diverse picture of N scalers (not that it matters). For whatever reason, the most active N scalers have drifted away from the MR Forum over the years (or maybe it's threads like this).
I agree..I use to post on those N Scale forums as well as the old Atlas N Scale forum and Nscale.org..Simply put you go where the N Scalers are.
As you already know N Scale is a scratchbuilders,detailers and kitbasher's scale its the nature of the beast.I stand in awe of some of the diesel detailing and steam locomotive projects I've seen on the Atlas Railwire and Trainboard..
I'm still very passionate about N Scale.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Quote Hornblower:
According to Sheldon, he put an N "gauge" engine in his mouth! With all the accuracy they put into the physics used on the show, you'd think someone on their staff would know that HO and N are "scales" and are not referred to as gauges other than when discussing rail or wheel spacing.
If I recall correctly N Gauge was named because the gauge was Nine millimeters like HO is Half O scale.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_scale The first two paragraphs here expand on the scale/gauge discussion.
Happy modeling! Ed
Move to N? I'm having trouble seeing HO! As I am getting older my eyesight is telling me to move bigger and bigger. Soon I will only be able to work on full size!
bsteel4065 Move to N? I'm having trouble seeing HO! As I am getting older my eyesight is telling me to move bigger and bigger. Soon I will only be able to work on full size!
Ok enough already. We all do what we want to model because that's what we want to do. I don't see the direction of this kind of thread being helpful to anyone except taking time away from modeling and stiring up debate about scales. We all do what we want to do! Just my opinion. Doug
My career as a model railroader started 50 years ago, well short of three days, when Santa in the guise of my dad brought me a Marklin starter set. In those 5 decades, I have done my modelling in nearly all scales and gauges there are, with the exception of TT scale. Starting out in HO scale standard gauge, I ventured into N scale, dabbled around with Z scale, built HOn3 and HOn30 narrow gauge layouts, took a short detour into British OO scale, built a mini-modular Japanese N scale layout, did some fooling around in On30 and am now planning a new venue in G scale.
Why? Because it was what I wanted to do at that time!
Before anyone starts to complain - I will certainly leave out T gauge. 1/450 is way too small for me...
Each scale has its merits as well as drawbacks. It all depends on the project you´d like to realize.
Exactly Ulrich! Right on. Have a great holiday to everyone. Doug
rgengineoiler Ok enough already. We all do what we want to model because that's what we want to do. I don't see the direction of this kind of thread being helpful to anyone except taking time away from modeling and stiring up debate about scales. We all do what we want to do! Just my opinion. Doug
On a discussion forums such as this topics like this will come up and therefore every member has a choice read and reply or skip the topic completely.
Never could understand why some gets upset reading topics they don't like..I skip a lot of topics that hold little or no interest for me.T'is easy to do.
narrow gauge nuclear In the current related thread about TT gauge, I got to thinking.........Who among the HO gaugers of the period that are here, abandoned HO for N gauge? I realize that few abandoned HO with the first introduction of N gauge as it was pretty much cheap junk garbage in its intial introduction. But given two or three years after its introduction, how many here in these forums left HO or any of their favorite gauges very soon after N came on the market. I further realize that some waited 5 or 10 years to switch over, but how many leaped right in feet first? I am not talking about folks who bought their first trains in N and are still in it, either. Just the old guys who were already MRs and saw its introduction after they were established MRs. N certainly dropped right into a niche that TT did not due to a number of reasons. Modern man introduced N gauge about the time it invented Town Houses and the baby boomers, now young professionals, were apartment dwellers. The timing was perfect! Cramped living quarters and busy life styles saw smaller pikes look more appealing. Smaller cars were cool as the gas crunch began with 28 cent/gal gas morphing to nearly a buck a gallon. Miniaturization of every appliance, electronic item and convenience was the hot new norm of the day........ why not model trains!? Poor TT...... After WWII, bigger was better! Bigger homes, bigger cars, bigger TV sreens. Bigger paychecks....Wow! Just give it to us bigger and better. TT?...No thanks. How many folks liked N who were already MRs took it up and stayed with it. (Psst...hey.... I bought two nice N sets in the 70's and put 'em on a small table but the concept was still born to my way of thinking and they are now packed away in boxes.) I never, ever left HO for real........Just a couple of one night stands with N.....A flirtation that didn't take.
In the current related thread about TT gauge, I got to thinking.........Who among the HO gaugers of the period that are here, abandoned HO for N gauge? I realize that few abandoned HO with the first introduction of N gauge as it was pretty much cheap junk garbage in its intial introduction. But given two or three years after its introduction, how many here in these forums left HO or any of their favorite gauges very soon after N came on the market.
I further realize that some waited 5 or 10 years to switch over, but how many leaped right in feet first? I am not talking about folks who bought their first trains in N and are still in it, either. Just the old guys who were already MRs and saw its introduction after they were established MRs.
N certainly dropped right into a niche that TT did not due to a number of reasons.
Modern man introduced N gauge about the time it invented Town Houses and the baby boomers, now young professionals, were apartment dwellers. The timing was perfect! Cramped living quarters and busy life styles saw smaller pikes look more appealing. Smaller cars were cool as the gas crunch began with 28 cent/gal gas morphing to nearly a buck a gallon. Miniaturization of every appliance, electronic item and convenience was the hot new norm of the day........ why not model trains!?
Poor TT...... After WWII, bigger was better! Bigger homes, bigger cars, bigger TV sreens. Bigger paychecks....Wow! Just give it to us bigger and better. TT?...No thanks.
How many folks liked N who were already MRs took it up and stayed with it.
(Psst...hey.... I bought two nice N sets in the 70's and put 'em on a small table but the concept was still born to my way of thinking and they are now packed away in boxes.) I never, ever left HO for real........Just a couple of one night stands with N.....A flirtation that didn't take.
I went from OO scale to "N" once it was a reliable runner.
And I mean big time suddenly 13 car passanger trains where a practical propersition well OK it was 9 in the end.
something I just could not do in OO.
Now I am back in HO and OO as they eyes can't cope with "N" any more so its turned full circle.
regards John
I hear you Larry. I just like the forum for the education of it and each others knowledge to be passed around and not fishing expeditions from a few. Oh, and I was never mad Larry, just my thoughts. Doug
rgengineoiler I hear you Larry. I just like the forum for the education of it and each others knowledge to be passed around and not fishing expeditions from a few. Oh, and I was never mad Larry, just my thoughts. Doug
That's cool..I too would like discussions on weathering techniques,LDEs,tutorials on various modeling aspects, industries and type of cars used etc.
A forum should also be a place for learning.
BRAKIE rgengineoiler I hear you Larry. I just like the forum for the education of it and each others knowledge to be passed around and not fishing expeditions from a few. Oh, and I was never mad Larry, just my thoughts. Doug That's cool..I too would like discussions on weathering techniques,LDEs,tutorials on various modeling aspects, industries and type of cars used etc. A forum should also be a place for learning.
One of the first things I did when I joined this forum was share my control system - that had mixed results - which ended up in the deleting of several threads where I spent a lot of time sharing "technical" information.
But of course that information failed the PC test because it was consisdered "anti DCC".
Other technical stuff I have offered over the years has also resuled in contraversy, locked threads, flaming of all sorts. Like how I was "told" that Intermoutian wheelsets simply can't work in Kadee sprung trucks by several "experts" - dispite me and several others having thousands of freight cars with them.
Only my thread on Bachmann loco tips seems to have prevailed without too much contraversy.
I would love more stuff on here about modeling, but that would require more people to be actually modeling, not just taking models out of boxes...........
And, I am slighly guilty myself, in fact I purposely cut back on spending time on this forum because of the lack of modeling conversation, and so that I could possibly make more time for actual modeling.
Sheldon
I dabbled in HO just for a wee bit when I was younger but the moment I could buy my own trains, I picked N. at first it was a flurry of diefferent stuff then BN, now I'm modeling the SP&S something that actually requires me to simply do more than "just pull a model out of the box." as for scale switching, it'll never happen but I hope to add some Z scale to my ever fluctuating model fleet.
BN in Z scale now that sounds nice.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
narrow gauge nuclear Modern man introduced N gauge about the time it invented Town Houses and the baby boomers, now young professionals, were apartment dwellers. The timing was perfect! Cramped living quarters and busy life styles saw smaller pikes look more appealing. Smaller cars were cool as the gas crunch began with 28 cent/gal gas morphing to nearly a buck a gallon. Miniaturization of every appliance, electronic item and convenience was the hot new norm of the day........ why not model trains!? Poor TT...... After WWII, bigger was better! Bigger homes, bigger cars, bigger TV sreens. Bigger paychecks....Wow! Just give it to us bigger and better. TT?...No thanks.
Richard, ever since I fist read this thread, the above statements have trouble me some as I think your premiss is flawed.
I don't know how old you are, or where you live/grew up, but here in the Mid Atlantic we have always had town houses/duplexes/row houses, and as a Residential Designer with a specialty in Historic Preservation, I can tell you that houses got smaller right after WWII, not larger.
BUT, all through the 50's, 60's and onward, in the more northern regions of this country, most homes are built with BASEMENTS - that generally provide ample space for model railroads - even if part of the basement is used as living space.
At age 16 I had a 500 sq foot layout space - in the basement of my parents 1700 sq ft rancher.
Houses did not really start to get larger again until the late 1980's, and now, rather than live in a "small" single home, many people opt to live in a "large" townhouse - both typically about 1500 to 1700 sq ft.
N scale has no appeal to me personally because of its small size, but my view of it would be the ablity to do 4 times as much in the same space, not the ablity to do the same thing in 1/4 the space.
I know they are out there - but in my personal circle of modeler friends I only know one person in N scale.
From what I have seen, model railroading has never really been a hobby ofr those with limited space or limited resources.
ATLANTIC CENTRALFrom what I have seen, model railroading has never really been a hobby ofr those with limited space or limited resources. Sheldon
Then you haven't seen much..I never had real deep hobby pockets.I never had much beyond a 4x8' loop layout but,had many enjoyable small ISLs.
I have known and still know modelers that uses clubs as their layouts. I known some to have 2 Athearn GP7s and dozens of cars..Their thing was painting and decaling cars.
As I said many times before the cost of the hobby is only what you make it.
With e-Bay and on line shopping one can find affordable cars and locomotives.
One doesn't need a Godzilla size layout,nor DCC or sound to enjoy the hobby
[quote user="ATLANTIC CENTRAL"]
The magic word here is "basement." Probably 60-70 percent of the country has few basements. My cousin, who lived up north grew up in a house with a basement. Now the house was relatively small, but that basement created a huge amount of room. Not just the space itself, but because it allowed a lot of stuff to be stored downstairs rather than in a closet somewhere taking up room. But many of us in the rest of the country have to fit a RR into an existing space that coexists with other uses. 500 square feet? More like less than 100, oh, and keep the middle of the floor space open for a guest bedroom.
This is perhaps my biggest pet peeve with most layout photo stories. They don't inspire for the great things that could be done so much as dangle a vision that will never happen. My little one locomotive and four car trains on a rag tag 2x8 switching layout doesn't fit the current vision of many of the hobby leaders. That's why I love the Beer Line, Virgianian, and current port railroad because they accomplish a lot in a small space, and the current RR shows how the same layout can be shelf switching or continuous running just by rearrageing the sections.
jmbjmbThey don't inspire for the great things that could be done so much as dangle a vision that will never happen.
Absolutely.IMHO articles like that and the antiquated "bigger is better" are falsehoods of the hobby.A small layout can give years of enjoyment as can a well designed ISL..All the track,switches,buildings and lumber cost me around $330.00 for Slate Creek.
You will never see a article on a layout that cheap to build.It would upset the advertisers and maybe the hobby leaders.
jmbjmb,
Maybe 60-70 percent of the "geography" of America does not commonly have basements, and demographics have changed, but in the 50's and 60's, 70% of the people in this country lived east of the Mississippi and North of the Ohio/Potomac - in BASEMENT country.
And maybe that is a reason why the Mid Atlantic has always been an area with a lot of model railroaders.
But my railroad is not in my basement, it is in a 25 x 40 room above my detached garage/workshop.
There is nothing wrong with small layouts - but a simple shelf ISL would not satisfy my interests in this hobby. I doubt I would stay in the hobby if I did not have room for a large layout.
BUT, understand this, there is a difference between a large layout and a complex one. My layout plan is large but simple - I use the space for bigger curves, more scenery, longer freight yards, a bigger passenger terminal - because I like running long trains of nearly prototype car counts.
My layout could easily be built in half the space - if the freight yard was not 20' long and the passenger station tracks were not 8' long and if the curves were 28" radius rather than 38" radius.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI doubt I would stay in the hobby if I did not have room for a large layout.
Or do as a guy I know did..He wanted a large layout to run on and didn't have the space..He's been a member of one of the local clubs for 30 years..His home layout is a 2' x 12' ISL located in a spare 9' x 12' bedroom and its detailed to the max.The room contains his work bench,two storage cabinets,book shelf and layout.
BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL I doubt I would stay in the hobby if I did not have room for a large layout. Or do as a guy I know did..He wanted a large layout to run on and didn't have the space..He's been a member of one of the local clubs for 30 years..His home layout is a 2' x 12' ISL located in a spare 9' x 12' bedroom and its detailed to the max.The room contains his work bench,two storage cabinets,book shelf and layout.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I doubt I would stay in the hobby if I did not have room for a large layout.
No, I don't think so, I've had my fill of clubs in this hobby as well.
I'm going to finishing building my dream layout, which is built in modules to allow moving and some reconfiguration if needed, and can be expanded.
Our retirement plan allows for a suitable space for the layout - if that changes I will just sell most of it and be done with it.
ATLANTIC CENTRALif that changes I will just sell most of it and be done with it. Sheldon
To be brutally honest I have thought about retiring from the hobby..Some times I think 55 plus years is enough and time to "retire" and find another hobby like R/C cars.
I started with British N scale in the early 70's. It was dire!
Then, in 1976 I started out with German N models, the quality was exceptional. I remember my first loco, a Fleischmann BR110 for £19.99 ($30?). I didn't look back for the next 20+ years or so, until failing eyesight got me to change up to US HO modeling. I did dabble with some Japanese N stuff in 2005/2006, but had to sell that on for other reasons.
Now, help, I've been eyeing up O scale recently.......
Brian
www.deadwoodcityrailroad.blogspot.com
narrow gauge nuclearWho among the HO gaugers of the period that are here, abandoned HO for N gauge? .... but how many leaped right in feet first?
narrow gauge nuclear I realize that few abandoned HO with the first introduction of N gauge as it was pretty much cheap junk garbage in its intial introduction. But given two or three years after its introduction, how many here in these forums left HO or any of their favorite gauges very soon after N came on the market.
I realize that few abandoned HO with the first introduction of N gauge as it was pretty much cheap junk garbage in its intial introduction. But given two or three years after its introduction, how many here in these forums left HO or any of their favorite gauges very soon after N came on the market.
N scale was introduced in the 1960's, but (at least IMHO) it took more than 2 or 3 years for really good N scale equipment (especially engines) to come along. In the 1970's MR reviews often showed N scale engines having a top speed of 180-200 scale MPH, and a minimum speed of maybe 15-20 MPH...not conducive to switching!!
Even in the 1980's-1990's it was common to talk about N scale being better for long trains with multiple engines, since if you had three or four engines on a train, they could pull each other over the inevitable dead spots.
In my case, I decided to leave O scale in the late eighties. I looked at both HO and N, but for what I wanted to do (run steam locomotives) it became clear HO was really the only choice. N scale steam just wasn't reliable enough. Making the same choice now, I'd probably be much more likely to go into N, since the equipment has improved a lot in recent years.
BRAKIE ..Some times I think 55 plus years is enough and time to "retire" and find another hobby like R/C cars.
..Some times I think 55 plus years is enough and time to "retire" and find another hobby like R/C cars.
A couple of days ago, I posted that I've abandoned HO for N back in 2001, only to eventually come back to HO several years later.
Well, as it stands right now, I'm planing to abandon HO again for N due to a number of factors. mainly space (which I've always been lacking). I've thought of just building a ISL in HO or in one of the larger scales, but I realized that I would become bored with it real fast as there would be times that I would just want to sit and watch the trains run around, especially after a hard day at work and school. Some of the braintrusts that we have here may scoff at that idea, but remember, it's my layout and not theirs. I still will have industries to switch, but I don't have to do it every time I want to operate a train. Right now, I just need to get something going so I can start having fun!
I know that I said that I've had issues before. I feel that the advantage far outweigh the disadvantages at this point.
Oh, about why TT never took off and N scale did, the answer to that was simple....
TT, as many of the ole timers would attest to, didn't have any RTR or trainsets to lure newcomers into the scale. The detailing was very crude and in many cases, non existant (Believe it or not, that was actually used as a selling point!). HP Products was one of only a few manufactures that was marketing TT products in the US and went out of business in the late 60s. TT fared much better in Eastern Europe as Piko kept the scale alive on a massive scale.
N scale, OTOH, when it came on the scene, had the backing of Atlas, AHM (Lima), Arnold, Bachmann, Con-Cor (Kato), MiniTrix, Model Power, MRC, & Rivorassi and released plastic RTR cars and locomotives from the start. They've solved the "coupler compatability problem" early on (something that the other scales had serious problems with) by standardizing on the Rapido for all rolling stock. Detailing was, surprisingly, very good for its time.
Robyn (CarolinaRail)