Look closer, Frank, there are kinks. Maybe upgrade that lens prescription.
Rich
Alton Junction
"JaBear"Measure back from that point of the curve 6" (approximately 80 N Scale feet) then draw a curve to join both points. This is the tangent,
No, that is an easement. 'Tangent' means straight, not curved.
Phoebe Vet I have used both the Dremel, and the Xuron cutters. Whichever I use, I use this tool from Micro Mark to keep the rail from rolling over or breaking loose from the ties when I cut.
I have used both the Dremel, and the Xuron cutters. Whichever I use, I use this tool from Micro Mark to keep the rail from rolling over or breaking loose from the ties when I cut.
LIONS (being cheap) use a plain block of wood for this purpose, but about 2 inches back from the cut, that gives you room to work the motor tool. LION never thought about running it at a slow speed.
Since LION is right pawed, him holds block with left paw, wields tool with right paw. Therfore the good work is always to the left and the scrap piece is to the right. Some times you must stand on your htead to get his correct.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
alco_fanNo, that is an easement. 'Tangent' means straight, not curved.
I did say I was talking through a hole in my head and I now know I should have paid more attention in class.
Thanks for the correction.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
richhotrain Look closer, Frank, there are kinks. Maybe upgrade that lens prescription. Rich
I'm quite positive,that my 89ft Intermodal flat cars and steamers, would have found them by now..
BTW, If you say that you solder,all your track, how do you control expansion? Or are you referring,to your dream,layout,when you are commenting? How do people get away with not soldering,the rail joints,when they hand lay the track? After all the track comes in straight sections, not curved ones.
Cheers,
Frank
Is it absolutely necessary to solder all flex track joints? I was hoping to just do K.I.S.S. and use rail joiners, JaBear I was planning to expand the edges slightly via the benchwork so I could use 11R curves. I can't stand the 9 3/4 trainset curves.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Burlington Northern #24Is it absolutely necessary to solder all flex track joints?
Gidday Gary, No, but it appears that Frank and I are in a definite minority regarding curves. In some ways it is a moot point, with the judicious use of track a half circle with an 11 " radius would require one join. Besides riogrande5761 has pointed out the problems of expansion and contraction in non temperature controlled environment, and as I also live in an active geothermal area I certainly don't rely on the rail joiners for electrical conductivity, soldered or otherwise.
Burlington Northern #24JaBear I was planning to expand the edges slightly via the benchwork so I could use 11R curves. I can't stand the 9 3/4 trainset curves.
A good as reason as any, especially with those passenger trains of yours.
Burlington Northern #24I was hoping to just do K.I.S.S.
I'm a big fan of the KISS principle, use it in my day job, but never to the detriment of the end result. Don't wish to appear to be belabouring the point but trouble free track work is a big ingredient to happy model railroading.
zstripe If you say that you solder,all your track, how do you control expansion?
"As you begin laying your track around larger curves you will quickly find that your 3 foot flex track pieces aren't long enough to make it around a full curve. You will also quickly learn that bending individual pieces of track around a curve and joining them doesn't work because you get a sharp kink at the joint. There is too much outward stress in the track at the curved joint to make a smooth connection. Fortunately, the solution is fairly simple. In short, what you need to do is join two STRAIGHT pieces of flex track together on your work bench and solder the joint BEFORE placing it on the layout and making the curve. You will find that as you make the curve that some of the ties will ride up tightly against the joiners making it difficult to bend the track. Simply snip away enough of the offending ties until you can make a smooth curve."
http://www.lancemindheim.com/track_laying.htm
Rich,
I don't need to have,someone else tell me how, to do something, that I have been doing successfully,for years. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and way of doing things. My way works for me. I never said,that it is wrong,to solder your rails. I have not found it necessary to do so and as I stated, I SPIKE the area,where the joiners are and contrary, to your belief that you say I have kinks, I have none. I started learning hand laying brass code 100 track,on cork road bed,with fiber ties, in the 50's, without soldering,only feeders. I stayed,with works for me and as far as I'M concerned, everyone has a way that works. There is no right way, I'm not going to jump in the Lake because someone said so.
Edit: That is one very good reason,why I said I stagger the joints,in a curve. No less than a 11/2 inch.
richhotrainThere is too much outward stress in the track at the curved joint to make a smooth connection. Fortunately, the solution is fairly simple. In short, what you need to do is join two STRAIGHT pieces of flex track together on your work bench and solder the joint BEFORE placing it on the layout and making the curve.
THAT depends on the BRAND of flex track. With Atlas I found this to be so, but Atlas is far too expensive for a LION who sticks with Model Power tracks. These stay where you put them.
LIONS do not build curves on a bench, him solders straight sections not.
Him lays the curve on the left, spikes it down, him does, then cuts the long rail so that the rails are equal. [Some say this is the cause of kinks... and sometimes it is.] With the new piece straight, him solders it to the end of the first track. and then continues the curve.
If you solder two straight pieces on the bench you would have to bend it in both directions from the middle so that the solder joints stay in one place. They cannot move easily through the ties once soldered, Fine I get that. But what about the next piece. You cannot solder three lengths together on the bench, and then put that in place without solder joints passing through the tie clips. (Can You?)
Anyway, Trackwork of LION mostly works, and where does not work, a bad section, a kink, can be cut out and a new track laid in its place.
zstripe Rich, I don't need to have,someone else tell me how, to do something, that I have been doing successfully,for years.
I don't need to have,someone else tell me how, to do something, that I have been doing successfully,for years.
I don't think anybody did. We just told the OP how to avoid kinks by soldering the rails for curves.
WOW! I was referring,to the link, that you provided, in my statement, not anyone associated,with the Thread.
Why didn't you, quote,the whole statement? Not just that sentence. I refuse to go any further,on this. Have a Nice Day!
zstripe Rich, I don't need to have,someone else tell me how, to do something, that I have been doing successfully,for years. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and way of doing things. My way works for me. I never said,that it is wrong,to solder your rails. I have not found it necessary to do so and as I stated, I SPIKE the area,where the joiners are and contrary, to your belief that you say I have kinks, I have none. I started learning hand laying brass code 100 track,on cork road bed,with fiber ties, in the 50's, without soldering,only feeders. I stayed,with works for me and as far as I'M concerned, everyone has a way that works. There is no right way, I'm not going to jump in the Lake because someone said so. Cheers, Frank Edit: That is one very good reason,why I said I stagger the joints,in a curve. No less than a 11/2 inch.
OK, sorry, I now am including your entire statement, Frank, although I don't know what it adds. The reason I initially excerpted your statement in part was to assure you that no one was telling you how to do something that seemingly works for you.
So, you don't solder flex track on curves, rather, you spike it, and you successfully avoid kinks. I am not sure that I understand exactly how you have spiked your track. Can you explain a little more what you do and how you do it?
Like I said earlier, I use 1/2 Homosote, I start at a straight end, connect my rail joiners,with the flex, spike the center holes,of the flex,with 1/2 round head spikes,from ME, I continue following the curve,with the center line to half it's length, connect another piece of flex,with four ties removed,with also ME rail joiners and continue,to spike in the center holes,that are in the flex. Once that is done, I sand down,the ties, I removed,slide them under the rail, using the round head spikes again in the center. Then the parts where the track sat on the ties, I drill half way through the ties, I use, 1/2 ME spikes,that look like spikes, about a 11/2, that means 3/4 on each side of the joint. Make sure there are no gauge issues, test with usually my 89ft flat cars and leave it alone. when I glue and ballast,it is not going anywhere. Sounds like a lot, but once you get the hang of it, it's simple. The spikes,BTW are very sharp,that's why, I only really need a starter hole,in the tie. Works for me and that's what matters, I also do the same,with insulated joiners, some of my blocks,on the double main line,are split.
Thanks, Frank, that certainly gives readers another alternative to consider.
Burlington Northern #24 Is it absolutely necessary to solder all flex track joints? I was hoping to just do K.I.S.S. and use rail joiners, JaBear I was planning to expand the edges slightly via the benchwork so I could use 11R curves. I can't stand the 9 3/4 trainset curves.
Solder your flex track intended for curves on the bench (however many pieces required to complete the curve) , then transfer the soldered assembly to the layout. slowly work the flex around the corner using pushpins to keep it on your desired radius, adjust or trim the ties if needed, of all looks good, lift it up and lay your preferred adhesive down, then lay it down permanent.
Leave some un-soldered gaps in straight sections to address expansion and contraction.
Also to sure to install plenty pf power feeds, it's cheap, easy and makes no sense not to.
Search this site for threads on laying flex track.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
I found an older photo of my track laying process.
The cork roadbed is stapled into place with a staple gun. . Next, I use a hammer to pound in each staple so it does not protrude upward above the cork surface.
Here, flex track is being positioned between turnouts. You can see, I use rulers to keep the tangent (straight) track aligned. I use home made wood curve templates for the curve positioning.
Also, note I painted the track before installing it. I used inexpensive spray cans of primer paint. I alternated thin layers of flat black and mineral red. The rail ends must be cleaned before installing rail joiners. The joiners are brush painted later.
Here is a view of these tracks now.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
lookit dat cork! the LION got rid of da cork for this layout. Tracks are laid directly on the base (Celotex--but Homesote is somewhat similar.)
LION not made of money, or of cork!
BroadwayLion lookit dat cork! the LION got rid of da cork for this layout. Tracks are laid directly on the base (Celotex--but Homesote is somewhat similar.) LION not made of money, or of cork!
Jim is not made of money either. When I was a grad student in college, I was on a very tight budget, yet cork was not expensive if I used it just on mainline trackage. I used Homosote in yards where it saved me a lot of trimming and fitting all those turnouts, plus yards don't always have that raised profile of mainlines so the flatness of Homosote didn't bother me. So I simply used cork on mainlines and it didn't take a lot of that so cost was cheap for me - I know! I built that layout on a small budget, even using a lot of scrap wood discarded in dumpsters from house building sites.
GARRY, nice photo's. I noticed your Budd dome car lettered for Burlington. Is that a BLI dome re-lettered to a Burlington owned non-CZ car mixed in? What was that passenger train? Incidentally, I have seen some Burlington labeled cars on the CZ, like the Silver Salver diner for example.
As far as flex track goes... it may be possible to lay curves without kinks and avoid soldering, maybe with judicious spiking. My feeling is since rail has some spring in it, on a curve it's going to want to spring back to straight, so if it isn't held tightly in place, it could kink. You'd have to spike the rails close to the joints.
The reason I went to soldering is as follows. When I was a teen in California, I had a friend with a decent 5x9 layout and he had electrical problems where the track would loose power. It was sectional track and the rail joiners wouldn't always reliably pass the power throughout the layout. I figured soldering would solve that problem largely. As others have noted, soldering ALSO will make the rail joint stiff and the rail will flow through it as if it is one long rail with no joint!
I found to my chagrin in my garage layout with the large swings in temperature and humidity that there was a great deal of expansion and contraction. This caused the rails to bunch up and bulge out during expansion, and in winter during contraction, the solder joints in some cases pulled completely apart! Based on those experiences it made sense to connect track with joiners and leave a small gap for expansion.
My current plans for next layout is to solder curves and not solder on the straight sections as a compromise between avoiding kinks on curves but allowing some capacity for the track to breath (expand and contract). I anticipate the basement environment will be a little more forgiving with a more constant temperature and humidity (using a dehumidifier in the summer) vs. garage in Indiana!
A way to avoid loss of power where you don't have soldered joints is to have frequent drops from a power bus - solder feeder wires to the bottoms of the rail joiners. This will minimize track sections losing power on some sections where some corrosion or oxidation causes rail joiners to not reliably pass power.
One could have a drop for every 3' section of flex track or maybe every other joint. That's up to the modeler. Every joint would give the best results I would think!
Cheers, Jim
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Burlington Northern #24 I'm curious about how you guys get your curves nice and smooth. I have a curve that I plan on splicing a Curved turnout into and was curious about how you guys made your curves.
As you probably figured from this I am in the no solder (especially not on the bench) and stagger the joints school of thought. While I will concede there is "always" a kink when not soldered, I will also contend that there is "always" a flat spot (or 2 kinks depending on how you look at it) with rail that was soldered straight and then curved. I find it easier to remediate a kink in 1 rail than a flat spot in 2. Not to mention all the ties that get destroyed curving after the fact. It is probably best to try all these different ideas and after you work with flex track for a while you will "discover" what technique works best for you.
There are other variables we have glossed over such as the size of the rail (code), the strength of the little plastic "spikes" that hold the rail to the ties, how sloppy the rail fits in those plastic spikes, how slickery the rail is in its flexing, how tight a curve is being made, and how thick and long the rail joiners are. All of these things will effect the smoothness and easiness of laying flex track and determining which is the "best" method to use.... I consider each curve to be laid as a unique situation when choosing. I don't think one technique is always the best.
I'll take some time to read over the responsesguys, sorry I couldn't respond quicker I did a literal triple shift during the weekend(sat. night, & sunday until 5pm.)
I'll have to ask my grandfather if he has a soldering iron, hopefully I can get some peco track soon, and I may just expand my layout to a 4' x 4'layout to coax some more running space out of the board(s).
Gary BN24 ..... I think you started a very interesting thread. Good idea. ... There are various sources of info on how to solder, and I suggest you do some research. It will help to be able to solder leads onto rails. There may be some good You Tube videos on soldering.
Jim Rio Grande .... The dome cars are Broadway Limited and they sold some that were unlettered. I applied Micro Scale decals, and I use them on some of my passenger trains. (My versions of the Denver Zephyr, the Kansas City Zephyr, or the Twin cities Zephyr. )
Texas Zephyr .... I like the Atlas "springy kind" too.