When I was 10-12 years old back in the early 1960s there was a scale called TrebbleO TrippleO; or, TrebleO. As I was firmly into HO and American Flyer S, I really didn't pay much attention to this scale. However, later, when N came out, I wondered if TrebleO had been changed to N, as it appeared to me that the two were Fairly close in size. Is that what happened; or, did TrebleO simply disappear. I realize that TrebleO means three Os, similar to OO being 1/2 O scale, then TrebleO would mean 1/3rd O scale.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Gidday, The following is quoted from "Little Trains of Thought" by Merv Smith and Ches Liivingstone.
"OOO. This was an attempt , unfortunately ahead of its time, to produce a system approximately one-half the size of OO. The pioneers and practically the only manufacturers were the Die-Casting and Machine Tool Company, using the brand name Lone Star. Originating as a simple cast-metal push-along system with a full range of points and accessories, it quickly developed into a miniature electric system using a form of belt drive made of rubber bands between the motors and driving axles. Unfortunately, the techniques of the 1950s hadn't come up with a cheap method of mass producing low-friction bearings in such tiny sizes, and the locomotives as supplied needed every once of available power to get started. The elastic belts didn't help either, other than to give the heavy motors a chance to start rotating before the tension was taken up sufficiently to move the train. Once rolling, however, they did run surprisingly well, considering the vast weight of their metal bodies and the built-in drag of dozens of (very) plain bearings. The gauge was 9.5 millimetres and the scale 2 mm to the foot. ( 1 : 152 ). Unfortunately, no other manufacturer took up this new system, which eventually languished and disappeared until it was launched , in Germany, with suitable fanfares and publicity, as N gauge."
Hope this explanation is of use,
Also found this link
http://www.tech2u.com.au/trains/manufact/lone_star/models.html
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Hi NP2626
Sorry but OO does not mean Half O HO means Half O they are in fact two different scales.
OO is 4mm to 1 foot HO or half O is 3.5mm to one foot O being 7mm to 1 foot.
Not sure what OOO was but not N scale there was a slight difference in scale.
OOO is now in the realm of over priced collect-ables where all toys and models eventually go to die and collect dust in hidden corners out of sight and unloved.
I only know of one manufacturer Lone Star but there may have been others.
regards John
I remember Treble O stuff and many hobby shops would set up an oval of it as a novelty. That was a time when TT scale (1:120) was pretty well established and thought to be about as small as a commercial scale train could get. These were electrical trains that ran on 9 mm track.
There was a brief time when some people used the names OOO and N interchangably for the same stuff -- that kind of excessive informality of vocabulary was the sort of thing that drove MR's editor, Linn Westcott, nuts. Precise model railroad vocabulary was one of his main goals (that an electrical circuit drawing symbols).
It took a while for the actual scale of what we call N to be nailed down. If N was 1:160 and OOO was about 1:152, but some people put 1:148 trains on the same track, that is a big enough difference to care about, at least for rolling stock if not for structures and figures.
If you read Model Railroader magazines from the 1930s there was a certain type of craftsman, perhaps you could say the model train equivalent of the ship in a bottle sort, who enjoyed the challenge of building extremely tiny trains that could run. Scale was less the point than plausibility, and being able to run. Some were about the size of N or Treble O but again were necessarily to a precise scale ratio. Some were even smaller than that. That same spirit of trying to do the seemingly impossible was in a way revivied by the introduction of N. Not long after N scale became popular I recall an article in RMC about a live steam locomotive in N (but perhaps not to 1:160 proportion) made by a British modeler. And about that same time MR featured close up photos of a totally scratchbuilt N scale shay that even today would looks great.
Dave Nelson
IIRC OOO was a little larger than N - around 1:144 or 1:148.
Like American OO, it is gone. You may find some on eBay.
Enjoy
Paul
If OO didn't mean 1/2 of O Scale, then what did it mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OO_gauge
Smile,Stein
NP2626 If OO didn't mean 1/2 of O Scale, then what did it mean?
IIRC for a while, scales were given by a numerical indication, rather than character .
so #1, 0, 00, ... (in order from largest to smallest) were the designations, same as how you can get "fine" steel wool as '0000' (or is it '000' ... meh, you get the idea).
edit ... beaten to it by wikipedia, lol
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
I got my Treble O in the early 60s. It must be quite robust as it ran constantly throughout my childhood. I have enough of the stuff to fill a 5' x 10' table and it is all boxed up in my trainroom office. A few years back we hauled it out and replaced the rubber bands on the drive and away we went.
About ten years ago it became quite collectable for a brief period of time and a collector made me a very good offer for my stuff. Sentiment got in the way though and I turned him down. I don't think it is very sought after these days. I wish I had sold it looking back, as I have now moved on.
I also have six sets of Meccano from the early Sixties I need to unload. That should be easy, I just need to get it done. I took it to a Meccano meet once and was offered $1600.00 for it. That's a nice brass engine for Pete's sake!
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Thanks to all who responded!
Unlike British OO, American OO used the gauge of .750 which happens to be the same as On3.
The NMRA has a SIG for American OO here which has information on the history in the U.S.. Not sure how active it is.
If OOO scale is 2mm (1:152), then it's "not quite dead yet", at least in the UK: the 2mm Scale Association.If OOO was closer 1:148 scale, then it morphed into UK N gauge, and is alive and well...
Marklin was the first company to offer toy trains in a choice track gauges, numbered from I believe No.1 (the smallest) to No.4 or No.5. No.1 gauge is the track used by LGB trains today. When they created a smaller gauge of 1-1/4" wide, the only number left was "zero" so it became "0 gauge" which in time became "O gauge" like the letter "O".
The correct scale for O gauge as standard gauge track is 1:43.5. In the US, we chose to use 1/4" = 1 foot, which works out to 1:48 scale, as being easier to work with. (This means in the US, O scale trains run on track that scales out to 5' gauge, instead of 4'-8-1/2".
"HO" is "Half O", half of 1:43.5 is 1:87, 3.5mm = 1 foot. In the UK, their equipment is smaller than US equipment, and the smallest available motor wouldn't fit in a British HO engine, so they expanded the linear scale to 4mm = 1 foot, but still running on HO. This became "OO" scale.
It's interesting how these threads can, and will mutate. My original intent for this thread was to ask about TrebleO trains, which made an appearence back in the 1960s. In 24 hours the thread has changed it's content to being more of a discussion on OO trains.
I have been told that there is no relationship between TrebleO and N scale which was what my interest in the topic was. Other than this, I'm firmly an HO guy and not about to flip scales with the $thousand$ I have invested in HO scale. I like it's size and the avalablity of products for this size. Never been too interested in the history of the other sizes; but, if you guys want to continue the discussion on OO here, I have no objections!
In a 1964 Model Railroader article (Uh Oh!, Here's OOO!, July?, Ted Brandon?), there was a comparison of Lone Star and Rapido offerings. The Arnold Rapido would become the forerunner of N scale/gauge, while Lone Star supporters eventually ended up in the 2MM scale camp. Might be worth looking up the article for a more thorough comparison.
Fred W
I mixed a few pieces of Long Star rolling stock with Rapido and other early N scale on my 27 x 34 inch Europeischer layout ca. 1971.