Todd ... Central Valley made quality trucks many years ago, but not anymore.
Everyone ..... I made several LaBelle cars for a 1900-era layout I was building in the 1980's. It was fun to make these cars. You could change the window and door configuration if you wished. The coach in the center of this picture is one I changed to open platform ends instead of vestibule ends as the kit was made for.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Heartland Division CB&QThe coach in the center of this picture is one I changed to open platform ends instead of vestibule ends as the kit was made for.
Looks great, Garry! I'm assuming you had to purchase railings in order to do this 'conversion'?
Sincerely,Todd M. Taylor The Unofficial $oo Line Diesel Roster
Todd .... Yes, I think they were CalScale brass castings.
Some more information from LaBelle regarding trucks:
I agree, trucks can be a booger to find. My first choice is usually Precision Scale Company. Their truck No. HO-33122 is my favorite choice for a 4-Wheel Passenger truck. Their Truck No. HO-33178 is my choice for a 6-wheel truck. These are beautiful Brass Trucks, BUT they cost almost as much as the passenger car kits. Don't despair, though if you go to this site: http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Kit_Bits/index.html#Trucks You can find many period trucks (almost all ex-Red Ball trucks) done in white metal castings there. Also, if you want older freight trucks try going to Kadee's site. They make a beautiful, inexpensive Arch Bar truck that is sprung and beautifully made.
I agree, trucks can be a booger to find. My first choice is usually Precision Scale Company. Their truck No. HO-33122 is my favorite choice for a 4-Wheel Passenger truck. Their Truck No. HO-33178 is my choice for a 6-wheel truck. These are beautiful Brass Trucks, BUT they cost almost as much as the passenger car kits.
The Precision Scale Co. site URL is:
http://psc1.virtualfocus.com/
See the "Trucks" button at the top of the page. They seem to have a big selection of nice looking trucks for both passenger and freight.
Kadee's site for freight trucks:
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/truck.htm
I finally ordered some of the LaBelle kits on Monday and they arrived today. I got the Soo Line 34' box car, Soo Line caboose, and 50' open platform combine. I figure I'll start with the box car, then the caboose, and hopefully I will have learned enough from those first two kits to assemble the combine w/o wrecking it!
Heck, the box car kit looks like it's going to be challenging enough as is. I don't think the wood parts will be too bad, but all the microscopic detail parts have me a bit concerned. I'm assuming I should use cyanoacrylate/super glue for those parts?
I don't know that kit, but for wood to wood, I'd use yellow glue, no matter how small the pieces. For metal to wood, super glue or epoxy--depending. For metal to wood that isn't likely to b e stressed, I think maybe a dab of final color paint at the joint might be an adequate glue. Maybe.
Enjoy! And I hope you'll tell us how it goes. It's nice to hear feedback.
Ed
7j43kFor metal to wood, super glue or epoxy--depending.
Thanks, Ed. The tiny parts in the box car kit are metal or plastic.
Has anyone here tried prepping the wood for painting by coating it with diluted white glue and then sanding? That method is suggested in this post:
http://www.modelsbuzz.com/painting-a-wooden-model-surface-with-diluted-wood-glue-before-sanding-9359726.html
I'd have to assume that the white glue would give the wood an almost plastic like surface that could be sanded really smooth. And speaking of sanding, any suggestions on what grit of sandpaper I should have handy for wood models? Now that I have the kits, I'll likely be making a trip to the craft store for some tools and supplies.
Todd M. Taylor Has anyone here tried prepping the wood for painting by coating it with diluted white glue and then sanding? I'd have to assume that the white glue would give the wood an almost plastic like surface that could be sanded really smooth.
Has anyone here tried prepping the wood for painting by coating it with diluted white glue and then sanding?
I'd have to assume that the white glue would give the wood an almost plastic like surface that could be sanded really smooth.
I don't know about this method. But your local well stocked hobby shop or craft store should sell what is called sanding sealer. The bottle I have in front of me is called Aero Gloss 71-4 sanding sealer. It is a Pactra product. The directions say to sand the entire model, fill in any surface irregularities, and apply as many coats as necessary to achieve a smooth surface. You have to sand between each coat.
The diluted white glue method sounds like a homemade concoction. I think that I would rather use a commercial product than experiment.
So far as sandpaper grit goes, others will have to speak. But I believe for very smooth finishes you'll be looking at 600, 800, and 1000 grit..
Being a 1910 era modeler I have a bunch of LaBelle models on my layout. They are fun to build and look great. Nothing beats wood for a wood model. Building one of these isn't sissies though. It takes time. - Nevin
The glue idea is interesting, though I would absolutely try a test piece first. I would not like to have a paint disaster after I'd slaved over the construction.
I ended up using paint as my sanding sealer. I always end up with a partial bottle of something laying around. You could also just use the same color as your final color--you'll get better coverage that way. And I'd use solvent based paints.
I performed an experiment on the box car model today to determine a good way to seal the wood for painting. My goal is to be able to get a decent paint finish on the wood using acrylic paints. I prefer acrylics simply because they're easier to clean-up and less toxic.
I went to Michael's craft store, which is way closer to where I live than any hobby shop, and purchased a bottle of Delta Creative's all-purpose sealer. It looks like a bottle of watered-down white glue and I wouldn't be surprised if it is. It cleans-up with water and soap, which is what I prefer. From the bottle:
For use on most porous and non-porous surfaces. Creates a non-porous protective barrier that requires fewer coats of paint. Creates a slight texture or “tooth” for easier paint adhesion. Ideal for wood, paper mâché, terra cotta, plaster, resin and bisque.
When I got home, I remembered that I have a bottle of Future floor finish, which is some kind of miracle acrylic sealant that I keep reading about on various model sites. Since Future is cheap, readily available, and comes in a huge bottle, I decided to perform a test: Future vs. Delta.
I coated half of the box car roof with 2 coats of the Delta product and the other half with two coats of Future. (The roof piece won't show in the final model since it gets covered with the scribed wood, so I figure it was a good place to experiment.) The Delta sealer is thicker than Future and when it dried, it did leave a little texture; similar to what one might expect if he painted the wood with diluted white glue.
The Future floor finish was absorbed into the wood and didn't appear to leave any texture behind. Being an almost water-like consistency, I didn't really expect it to leave any texture behind.
After both sides dried, I sanded the roof with 400 and then 600 grit sandpaper. Finally, I painted the roof with ModelFlex primer gray via airbrush to see which sealer worked better.
My very non-scientific conclusion is that both sealers worked well. The Delta side looked a tad smoother, but that could simply be because I might've spent a little more time sanding that side to get the brush marks out.
My opinion is that if you have a large, flat wood surface that you want to paint and want to fill-in the pours of the wood so it doesn't look like wood, I'd recommend the Delta sealer (or maybe there's a better sealer?) because it dries with a little texture that seems to fill in the grain a bit. However, if you're working on a detailed piece of wood where sanding it really isn't an option and you don't want brush marks on it, the Future floor polish might be a better choice.
For the box car kit, I think I'm going to use Future for almost the entire thing. I don't want to accidentally fill-in any of the scribed marks on the roof or siding pieces. The floor of the kit is channeled, which would be nearly impossible to sand, so once again I'll likely use Future. When I get around to the combine kit I purchased, I'll likely use the Delta sealer for the roof and then sand the bajeebers out of it as I want it to be smooth and not look like wood.
So take my 'research' with a grain of salt!
Those LaBelle kits do look really nice! I got one of their freight motor kits as a Christmas present, and now I need to get around to building it!
_________________________________________________________________
I found that there is something else these kits don't come with, aside from trucks and couplers...
Weights.
For this box car kit, I can probably fill it up with anything because no one will see it. However, how does one go about adding weight to a passenger car when you can see inside? I'm probably at least going to put seats in my car, hence it's going to be hard to hide weights.
A quick search online shows that some hobby companies sell lead weights which are nothing more than automotive wheel weights:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/PWT0/100360.oap?ck=Search_wheel+weights+-+adhesive+-+lead_-1_4004&keyword=wheel+weights+-+adhesive+-+lead
However, they're rather bulky and might be hard to hide in a passenger car.
Have any of you found a good source of flat, easily cut-able flat weights? Maybe something readily available at a hardware store that I'm not thinking of? Most model train cars come with a flat piece of steal, but that's pretty hard to cut to fit. Any suggestions?
Todd M. Taylor Have any of you found a good source of flat, easily cut-able flat weights? Maybe something readily available at a hardware store that I'm not thinking of? Most model train cars come with a flat piece of steal, but that's pretty hard to cut to fit. Any suggestions?
Try a plumbing supply place. You should be able to get some sheet lead (it comes in various thicknesses) that will do the job. Use a straightedge and utility knife to cut it. You can put one or two layers on the floor before installing the seats, and more, if needed, either in the clerestory or as a ceiling. If the car has washrooms, that's also a good place to conceal extra weight. There's a thread on adding weights in the Layout Forum HERE.
Wayne
Construction has begun! I think I've spent way more time reading the instructions and viewing sites of other people who have built similar kits than I have actually building, but so far I really enjoy the kit.
Thanks for the info and link to the car weights discussion, Wayne. As mentioned in the discussion, I agree that pennies are the most cost effective way to add weight to a model train car. Not only that, President Lincoln played a major role in making the transcontinental railroad a reality, so it's only appropriate that I let him ride my train
A penny apparently weights 0.88 ounces, so I'm hoping 4 of them will be appropriate. I don't have a postage scale, so I guess I'm just going to have to "wing it".
Progress so far...
I found an excellent article from the Raiload Model Craftsman web site showing many great tips on assembling these wood kits. In particular, the article shows how to apply the decals to avoid "silvering".
Todd M. Taylor However, how does one go about adding weight to a passenger car when you can see inside? I'm probably at least going to put seats in my car, hence it's going to be hard to hide weights.
However, how does one go about adding weight to a passenger car when you can see inside? I'm probably at least going to put seats in my car, hence it's going to be hard to hide weights.
Brass weighs 5 oz. per cubic inch (10% more than steel). It's easy(ish) to cut with, among other things, a razor saw. If you put a piece of 1/16 x 1 brass bar 6.5 inches long into the floor of your car, you'd gain 2 ounces. The brass bar is available through most hobby shops and my hardware store.
With the combine, I'd just put my weight(s) in the baggage section towards the car center.
The NMRA standard for HO is 1/2 ounce per inch of length plus 1 ounce. Your combine is 8" long, so that's 5 ounces. I've got a cheap mechanical postal scale that I've had for years. It'll weigh up to a pound. Nowadays, it might cost $5.
Progress has been made!
The roof walk isn't glued on yet so I can paint the roof. The braking system was rather confusing, I'm not sure if I got it even close to being right. Unfortunately, one of the 'wires' provided with the kit is clear fishing line, so it didn't show-up very well in the photo. The trucks and couplers are on order so my little strong men have to hold the car for now.
Next comes the scary part... paint! The only hobby shop near me didn't have a color any where close to a box car red, so I took a gamble by getting some paint from Michael's craft store, but I think it looks too burgundy. I hate to have gotten this far to paint the car some wacky color that doesn't look remotely close.
Looks good, especially with it being your first ever wood kit.
Check out the various red primers when looking for a suitable paint. There's usually a range of shades if you compare different brands. Be cautious about the "sandable" primers, as they're somewhat tricky on plastic. They might be just the ticket on wood, but I've never used them on it.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Those LaBelle kits are fun to build.
This is my H0n3 RPO car, waiting for the paint shop.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
I'm interested in trying one of the HO scale coach kits. Who makes a high quality 6 wheel truck that would go well with one of these kits? Are the precision scale trucks the best out there right now?
dekemd I'm interested in trying one of the HO scale coach kits. Who makes a high quality 6 wheel truck that would go well with one of these kits? Are the precision scale trucks the best out there right now?
The open platform coach models in the photos aren't long enough to justify 6 wheel trucks, IMHO. I don't remember seeing photos of such prototypes with 6 wheel trucks.
The longer closed vestibule models are a different story. I would visit the Walthers catalog to get an idea of what is available. Personally, I'm into buying used trucks of suitable era when they become available at my LHS, regardless of make. I look for clean details and castings, and avoid obvious defects. Wheels can be replaced. When I build a car, I look at prototype photos and try to match from stock I have on hand. Otherwise, the Walther's, PSC, Bitter Creek, Blackstone, etc., catalogs and web sites, and other sources are used to select and order from.
If I can find them, and they match what I'm looking for, the old Central Valley trucks are my personal preference. I haven't assembled enough PSC trucks (that I specifically recall being PSC) to offer an opinion on them.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
i have built three passenger cars and two freight cars from labelle models.i think they are definitely worth the price.they also make beautiful models.i would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone. tuxedo.
What trucks do you all recommend? Do you buy them from Walther's?
Robert Sylvester, WTRR
After some 2 gazillion hours of online research and 3 bazillion hours of actual model building, my first wood kit is pretty much done:
(Looks like my home-made 'rust' color on the axles needs to be toned-down a little )
I'm hardly a 'master modeler' yet, but for my first wood kit and first time airbrushing a complete model, I'm pretty happy. I'm also thankful for the suggestion that I start with the box car and work my way up to the combine. My next model is the LaBelle Soo caboose and I'm already a bit scared after just opening the box!
Despite the advice to use enamels with wood, I blazed a new trail (at least in my mind) and completed this kit entirely with acrylic paints. Not only that, I got sick of driving a long distance to my nearest hobby shop to buy overly priced model paints, so I experimented with cheap 'craft paints'. There's a Michael's and Hobby Lobby relatively close to where I live and they both carry a brand of acrylic craft paint called "Americana" that's just over $1 a bottle. I chose a color called "Heritage Brick" to be my "box car red", and I think it looks close enough.
I eventually settled on using Kadee #158 couplers and #501 trucks and I'm pleased with both. The #158 couplers are smaller than the standard #5's and are a little more detailed. The trucks are also very detailed and didn't cost an arm-and-a-leg. Note that neither came with screws, so order some 2-56 screws if you plan on doing a similar kit. You can get the #501 trucks right from LaBelle, although I got my stuff from ModelTrainStuff.com.
Adding decals to the model did prove to be a huge challenge. I gloss-coated the entire model and spent days trying to get all the air out with decal setting solution, but lots of air pockets still showed-up after applying the clear coats over the top Oh well... I did get better at applying them the more I did it.
Mounting the trucks almost gave me an ulcer. I needed to lift the body about 1/8" in order to get the coupler height correct and to keep the wheels from hitting the body. I started by putting in 4 small washers above each truck, but when I put the car on the track for the first time, it had a horrible lean! I thought I drilled the mounting screws off center (which I did) or didn't get the screws in straight, so I filled the holes with glue and tried several more times... all with the same result As a last resort, I bought a wood dowel from Menard's, cut off a small slice to serve as the height adjuster I needed, and that worked wonderfully... no more lean and it looks better than having a bunch of washers holding the car up. I think the dowel gave the trucks more surface area to sit on and don't allow the car to lean over.
Todd,
Congratulations! Despite your trials and tribulations, in the end you ended up with a beautiful model. Finishing is always a weak spot for me, so I know what you've been through. Nothing I can see detracts from it. Very clean craftsmanship, which is the key to getting a wood kit right. You've done it.
The laser roof walk is a good touch. That's in the LaBelle kits now? Another improvement among many done to the kits recently, making them even more of a value.
Thanks, Mike!
mlehmanThe laser roof walk is a good touch. That's in the LaBelle kits now? Another improvement among many done to the kits recently, making them even more of a value.
The roof walk comes as one piece that you cut the ends off of once it's glued down so everything is straight. However, I put the nail holes and cut lines in it to give the appearance of being multiple boards. I have no idea if that's prototypical or not, but I thought it would look cool. I did see a photo of a wood Soo caboose where the roof walk wasn't painted, so I figured I'd try that as well.
One benefit of modeling this era, at least in my opinion, is that there are so few people who know what trains liked like in the early days of steam that you can pretty much do what you want and no one is going to nit-pick Since I never did find a photo of a real Soo box car that looks like this one, I kind of doubt there ever was a prototype just like it. Therefore, in my mind, my model is exactly like the prototype!
Nice job on the construction and painting, Todd.
Todd M. Taylor One benefit of modeling this era, at least in my opinion, is that there are so few people who know what trains liked like in the early days of steam that you can pretty much do what you want and no one is going to nit-pick Since I never did find a photo of a real Soo box car that looks like this one, I kind of doubt there ever was a prototype just like it. Therefore, in my mind, my model is exactly like the prototype!
There may or may not have been a car just like it, but the lettering seen HERE is at least similar in style, and supposedly made directly from builder's photos of the prototype car.
There's some more info here: Art Griffin decals and lots of other old-time lettering if you choose to build some more LaBelle kits.
Thanks for the link, Wayne! And here I thought I had already searched to the ends of the Internet and seen every site there was pertaining to modeling the early years of railroading. The homepage of that site has a lot of photos of good looking box cars and I'm excited to see that many of them are not box car red.
Heartland Division CB&Q Todd ... Central Valley made quality trucks many years ago, but not anymore. ...
...
Sorry to bring up an older post. Todd your car looks fantastic. Having built many wooden car kits, a suggestion. Slit the decals between the boards prior to applying solvent. Slit any air bubbles left in the decals with a sharp, ie new #11 blade and reapply solvent. I suggest you use solvaset on these decals as they are a little thicker than the modern decals from Micro scale and anything weaker than solvaset just won't work as well.
While I would personally buy just CV trucks if they were still available, they can be had on E-bay every now and then. But you have to be prepared to pay anywhere from $20-$30 for 4-wheel freight trucks, to over $60 for some passenger and 6 wheel buckeyes.
The story as to why they are no longer made is a sad one indeed. George Hook, the founder of Central Valley , the original company, died in the late 1970's. The family didn't wish to continue the company so all their dies for the trucks and their wooden kit line, were sold to another company. (Can't remember who).
The truck that transported these dies was involved in a wreck, the truck caught fire, and all of the dies were destroyed. Until someone designs new dies from maybe NOS, (New Old Stock), the CV's of old will never return.
Carey
Keep it between the Rails
Alabama Central Homepage
Nara member #128
NMRA &SER Life member
I've been building some Labelle cars recently, so thought I'd throw up some pics.
This is the LaBelle SG&N gon lettered for the Silverton Northern (decals included with the kit.):
I built two short RPOs. The first was done per the kit as D&RGW 62. The roof may throw you at first, since it seems too short. But that's the way most of the short RPOs were set up. I added the side plating done to update the RPO to USPO standards to better resist crash damage. I also added the roofwalk and handrail:
The second one I special ordered from Rick with a longer roof. Some of the short RPOs did have a roof that overhung the platforms like on regular passenger stock, so I did this one that way as D&RGW 123. Conveniently enough, pics of 123 are scarce, so I could get away with just about anything on it.
When painting these cars, I sealed and primed them with Zinser 1-2-3 Primer/Sealer in the spray can. It did a pretty good job. I should've knocked the fuzz off of SN 3005 with some sandpaper, but the RPOs sealed up really well. Then I just shot some Floquil spray Pullman Green. The RPO decals are pieced together from some old Walthers ones for Rio Grande NG passenger cars I had on hand.