I have prepared a harbor scene and now need to decide what to use to simulate the water. My thoughts were to use one of the two-part epoxy products to form the clear, level base, then add surface details such as small waves with acrylic gloss gel, per Dave Frary.
I've heard of many products that form a clear base: Enviro-tex, Magic Water, etc. but would like to hear suggestions from the forum. What have you used? Would you use it again? How do you determine the volume needed?
Thanks in advance.
John
I opted for a rather costly product, a two-part finish quality epoxy from Swing Paints called NuLustre-55. I suspect any decent two-part epoxy meant for clear coating should work, but it will also be costly. I have heard of using urethane, polyurethane, gloss medium, even reflective mylar sheeting. One gentleman (hminky here), demonstrated that the inverted shiny surface of a Chinese take-out meal pie-shaped container does a passable job.
I used the two-part NuLustre-55 for the river here. I added a tiny drop of yellow and Hauser Medium Green acrylic craft paints and a pinch of plaster of Paris powder for opacity/turbitidy. Once the second such pour had cured atop the first, I painted the top surface with gel gloss medium to get a moving water effect.
[This is on a diorama specifically made for use outdoors. The water and bridge, rails, close-up flora and terrain are all part of the module. The water past the 'dam' is actually 100' below the diorama and about 3/4 of a mile away in the Strait of Georgia off the coast of Vancouver Island. I set the diorama up on a railing surrounding a deck overlooking the property down to the water line and beyond to Texada Island and the Coast Range in the far distance.]
Here it is some days later, but looking west toward the Comox Glacier in the Beaufort Range.
Crandell
Crandel ;thats nothing short of amazing .....Jerry
Thanks, Big Jerr. It is hard to beat nature's Big Bulb. The reflection of the sky makes all he difference.
I've used Envirotex Lite for all my water. I'm very happy with it for a flat-water model.
Go online to www.acmoore.com and find their weekly coupon in the "Store Finder" section. Print it out, and they'll give you 40% off (sometimes 50%) on one item. Use it for Envirotex Lite. I got the big package. I've been using it for years, and I've still got a quarter of it left. It doesn't seem to have a shelf-life problem, even after opening.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Real nice Crandal and MrB. I like how the Enviortex light works to show water/ detail depth. Even coloring/ tinting the pours for murky water depths.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I have used Enviotex Lite for a lake and small river and it worked OK. Then I tried Woodland Scenics Water Effects for a larger area, and it worked OK too. Next I just tried Gloss Medium for a harbor and it was OK too, but a whole lot cheaper than the others. Picture below.
The base for the harbor was a Luan sheet. I primed it with Kills and sanded it. Next I painted it 'Midnight Blue' with craft paints. Then applied the gloss medium and made the wave surface with a brush.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I have used Envirotex for a smooth surfaced pond and had good results, first try.
As for volume, you should pour about an 1/8" depth each pour. Most folks seem to use 3-5 pours. Mix a small batch, pour it in. That will give you an indication of how much you will need to mix for later pours of the proper depth.
Paint your pond/river bottom to indicate depth, blending a dark color for deep water to your earth tone at the shore. That is unless you are doing a quarry or pier, where it gets deep immediately. To make your water look a little murky you can add a drop or two of a green (I used Olive) or light brown in the first pour or two. I used clear for the top pour, but if you wanted it turbid, color all layers, maybe just a little less for the top.
Good luck,
Richard
Thanks for all the great tips and photos!
I didn't realize that multiple applications of Envirotex was the norm. I thought you had to get it right the first time. I assume that you would use solvent-based paint to tint and not water-based.
Dave Frary suggests using a propane torch to heat the surface of Envirotex releasing the inevitable bubbles that form from a quick pour. Do any of you do this? I've also heard of slowly pouring in the epoxy down a brass tube.
John,
It is hard to follow the quality work of Crandell, MrB, and Elmer, but I will try. I used Woodland Scenics Realistic Water with a touch of WaterEffects on top.
I started with ground goop and the rocks in my riverbed.
I started the pour at the top and let the Realistic Water run down hill being careful not to pour very much at a time, 1/8" only. It took many many days before it reached the bottom. With the old formula, I had to wait a week in between pours, but they reformulated it set faster.
I let it run off the layout until I got the top part right. Then I placed the fascia, and formed the pool at the bottom. I dabbed the Water Effects where I wanted ripples around the rocks.
When I was doing mine, there was lots of grumbling on the forum about the old formula, but since I used both, I feel the problem was resolved.
Have fun with yours.
Sue
Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.
You don't need to use a blow torch!!!!!!
The NuLustre-55 instructions warned that there would probably be some bubbles. And, there were bubbles during every pour of the what-must-be eight or nine that I have done since entering the hobby. They recommend waiting for perhaps 10 minutes, let the mixture spread and find its natural level and surface area, and then deal with the bubbles.
(Note, you can use a spatula or stick to spread the stuff if you are impatient. Just be patient about spreading it or you may end up with an uneven application. If your batches are really much too small, they won't cover what you think they should. Typically, mix equal measures of about 1/2-3/4 cup at a time to total near a cup or up to two cups, say. When it cures, mix more and apply it over the first pour.)
After 10 minutes, take a soda straw, insert one end in your mouth, and place the open end about one inch above the fresh surface. Blow gently and watch all the bubbles disappear. Move around. The whole process of ridding the surface of bubbles takes maybe 20 seconds. I have done this just pursing my iips and blowing near the pour.
Sue, that is one heckuva bridge. I like it!
The straw works well, however you have to watch out for drops of moisture coming out of the straw and dripping on the surface, so do it quickly.And a little about mixing: I recommend that you use three cups. One cup for part A and one for part B. Then pour part A or B into the other and mix for a few minutes. Then pour that into a new cup and mix some more using a new stirring stick. If you don't get it all mixed up really good, it may not fully cure.
Sue; I also like your stream. That looks awesome. I am getting ready to work on something like that now.
Br. Gregory uses a blow torch to take the bubbles out of plaques that he makes. Since a straw works, perhaps a gentle blast of canned air will work too. Maybe you paint sprayer will do it assuming that you have one of those, which I do not.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Hi seaside John,
For my harbor I used Enviro-Tex and yes I would and will use it again. I tried almost all the other stuff you can think of, but to me nothing compares to E Tx I found that the best way to pour it is to pour it out onto a flat paint stick and direct it to where you want it to flow. What you see here is just one pour.The bottom looks black but it's not. It is a very deep dark, dark blue painted on hard board. I never did get around to make waves or ripples, but that can always be done any time, even after the Enviro- Tex cured.
Sam
By the way, I just have to say YOU DO AMAZING WORK Crandel. That bridge and river scene is just about the best I have ever seen. Terrific.
Thank-you very much, Bob and Olle!
BroadwayLion Br. Gregory uses a blow torch to take the bubbles out of plaques that he makes. Since a straw works, perhaps a gentle blast of canned air will work too. Maybe you paint sprayer will do it assuming that you have one of those, which I do not.
One thing to note here is that the bubbles are dissipated by CO2. This is what the blow torch is for; not producing heat. Blowing on it with a straw works so long as you are exhaling the air into it since you exhale CO2. Canned air or air from an airbrush won't work since it is just regular air without extra CO2.
With the Envirotex lite, I didn't use a straw, just blew my breath over the surface several times, until the bubbles were gone. My pond was close to the edge, with no trees or other scenery in my way.
I do keep a piece of paper over the pond when not operating to keep the dust and other stuff off the surface. The surface cleans easily, but cleaning around the grass tufts can be a bit difficult.
Thanks, Crandell. That was Larry's first attempt at scratch building a bridge. It is on an incline, has a curve and a turnout. Nothing like keeping it simple for your first one.
gandydancer19 The straw works well, however you have to watch out for drops of moisture coming out of the straw and dripping on the surface, so do it quickly.And a little about mixing: I recommend that you use three cups. One cup for part A and one for part B. Then pour part A or B into the other and mix for a few minutes. Then pour that into a new cup and mix some more using a new stirring stick. If you don't get it all mixed up really good, it may not fully cure. Sue; I also like your stream. That looks awesome. I am getting ready to work on something like that now.
Elmer, Thanks. The pour flowed nicely. I have a pond at the top. I overfilled it, and let it drizzle down the hill. Each pour flowed further down the hill. I was surprised that the ground goop stood up to the pour. Have fun with yours. Be sure to post photos.
I have used a much cheaper and easier product for a ship diorama, ModgPodg(sp?), available from Michael's for all you will ever need. Dries clear and glossy, and one can add pigment easily.
Anybody else likes this stuff?