Loco, What to oil/lube for best performance and electric pickup

[GoleyC]

I've been out of the hobby for quite some time.  Roughly 14 years, and have several older locos that have been sitting in their boxes.

I have noticed that they axles, pick-ups and gear boxes look dry.

So, what type of oil should I use and what specific points or parts should I oil to get them back into running shape again?

Craig

[Mark R.]

I use 3-in-1 oil, and only the metal contact points, like the motor shaft and the worm axle. Apply it with a tooth-pick as you only need a very small amount.

You make have to completely tear down the trucks (maybe) if the oil / grease in them has gotten thick and hard over the years on non-use. Personally, unless the trucks gears have some serious issues, I never lubricate the gears. Even on brand new engines, the first thing I do is tear them down and remove the factory lubricant.

Over time this lubricant can leach, finding its way to the axles and ultimately the wheels where they will be a real dust and dirt magnet .... and we all know where thet leads !

If I have to lubricate the gears to eliminate some chatter or odd noise, I'll use Vaseline. It acts like a packing grease which does a great job removing end-slop in worn gears and after many years, I've never noticed any leaching properties to the stuff.

Mark. 

[bobwrght]

What ever you use make sure it is plastic compatable or it will eat up your parts. There are better choices than 3-1 oil.

[GoleyC]

Thanks for the information.  However, if there are better choices, what are the other choices that are better and why is it better?

The more information I have, the better prepared I am to tackle this task of oiling up and lubing my locos.

[MRTerry]

Craig,

I find that it depends on the way that the locomotives are constructed. In some locomotives, electricity flows through the axle bearings, bolsters, or both. In that case I use small amounts of a conductive oil (Bachmann offers one) on the axle bearings as needed. The less, the better. If the current doesn't flow through the axle bearings, then you can use small amounts of a conventional light, plastic-compatible oil on them. You can use the same type of oil on motor bearings and the bearings at either end of the worm. The worm and worm gear require a thicker lubricant, such as a light plastic compatible grease.

The goal is to use the smallest amount of lubricant that enables your locomotive to operate properly, and you want to be sure to remove any thick, gummy, hardened grease before adding new lubricant.

Thanks for reading MR,

Terry.

[fwright]

GoleyC

Thanks for the information.  However, if there are better choices, what are the other choices that are better and why is it better?

Like so much of model railroading, there are no definitive answers.  There is no body of universal or comparison testing of various alternatives.  As a result, each individual may try one or several alternative materials for a given purpose.  He finds one he likes, and works for him.  He's now convinced that he a good or great material for the purpose, and will recommend it to others.  He will also tend to poo-poo other materials that are/were not his choice, regardless of whether he had done any testing himself.  Given the state of the hobby, defining "best" can't happen.

For lubrication:

- Labelle lubricants were specifically designed for model railroading and similar applications.  There is continual improvement of the product.

- 3 in 1, sewing machine oil, and other household light lubricants have been frequently used in the past, especially before Labelle lubricants were available.  I personally don't like 3 in 1 because of it's "gritty" feel, and the ready evaporation of some of the solvents.

- WD40 and some of the various CRC products are not lubricants.  WD40 and the original CRC formula was developed to displace moisture as an aid in salvaging engines and/or electronics that had been immersed in water.  That said, both have solvents that have pretty good lubricating qualities for the 1st few weeks.  The residue of WD40 when the solvents evaporate is a gummy, sticky substance that is great for repelling water, but not fun to clean or remove.

- Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF).  ATF is hydraulic fluid that has a lot of lubricant qualities added to it.  It is designed to be the compressed hydraulic fluid in a car transmission, while at the same time lubricating all the parts.  It has to remain stable for years under a wide range of temperatures.  For this reason, some Lionel display layout operators starting using ATF to lubricate their engines.  It allowed them to avoid nightly teardowns for re-lubing after 8-10 hours of constant operation.  At the time, most other lubricants would suffer from evaporation of key components under the steady heat.  Since then, ATF has grown in popularity because it clings well to gears without the problems of most greases.

- grease.  Various greases have been used over the years on model engine gears.  And most greases have the lighter components evaporate over time, leaving a congealed or hardened mess after a few years or decades.  I've had to clean out a few gearboxes full of hardened grease.

Based on my above analysis, I use Labelle lubricants and ATF on my model trains.  My personal gut feel is that ATF is not fine enough for motor bearings in my tiny HO and HOn3 engines, so I use Labelle there.  For gears and similar applications, I'll use either the Labelle grease or ATF, depending on my mood.  For long term with little use, I think ATF is slightly better.  For a more used engine, the Labelle is probably a better lubricant.  How much better?  Couldn't tell you.

my thoughts and experiences, your choices

Fred W

[bogp40]

Fred, I couldn't agree w/ you more.  Hit the nail on the Head! Never liked 3 in 1,  Solvent/ vehicle will evaporate and will gum up.

[sfcouple]

Fred,

Excellent summary,  I've cut and pasted your comment for future reference.

Thanks,

Wayne

[DigitalGriffin]

Conducta-lube works well for me for pickups/wipers.

Other than that I only use Labelle greese for gears, and regular lebelle or Wahl clipper oil for bearings.

[Medina1128]

I ONLY use LaBelle products. They're all plastic compatible.

[ratled]

My vote goes to ATF but ONLY 100% SYNTHECTIC ATF.  That is so it will not gum up.  With any lube, a little goes a long way

ratled

[dstarr]

Locomotives and other rolling stock, left unused for years suffer from dryness and or stickiness.  The more volatile fractions of the lubricants evaporate over time  and what's left behind is stiff and sticky.   You need to clean the old and sticky lube out and relube everything.  

I get the old lube out by taking things apart and cleaning them with solvent.  Alcohol, mineral spirits, or perhaps WD-40.  I don't use anything more active than that  lest it eat plastic parts. 

 Most moving parts, wheel bearings, drive rod ends, motor bearings, want light oil.  I have used 3 in 1, gun oil, and Labelle something-or-other.  I never had any trouble with any oil attacking plastic.  I haven't tried automatic transmission fluid. 

Gears want grease, the extra thickness is needed to keep the grease on the gear teeth.  I have used Vaseline and white lithium grease (sold in small tubes at auto parts stores).  Metal gears, especially worms, definitely need lube.   The slippery plastic gears are pretty much self lubricating so you don't have to go over board

I never oil commutators.   "Pickups"?  Not sure what you mean there.  On Lionel I used to give the third rail roller pickups a drop of oil to help the roller turn freely, but HO doesn't have that sort of pickup.  HO picks up juice thru the wheels.  They will want cleaning and so will the truck bolsters, and the matching bosses on the frame.  I like Googone for wheel cleaning.  I also use a wire wheel in the Dremel.

[tschwarz]

Medina1128

I ONLY use LaBelle products. They're all plastic compatible.

 

I couldn't agree with you more.  I've only ever used Labelle oil and grease and have never had any issues.  I like the Labelle oil also because it has the needle applicator which is great for lubricating the running gear on my steamers.

Tom

 

[GoleyC]

Fred,

Thanks for the detailed answer.  I did read, just in the last issue of MR, that ATF was being used for lubricants, so you information only backed that up.

I'll tear things down in the engines and see what needs a good cleaning and go from there.

To all others who have responded, thank you for your input.  It has steered me in the right direction.

I"m looking forward to my work ahead.

On a side note; If it doesn't work or things go horribly wrong and they don't run, then I'll just have to invest in some new locomotives.  I would have to convert them over to DCC anyway once I do get them running, so  buying some new DCC ready or DCC installed loco will be my next purchase.

Thanks again!

Craig

[bogp40]

dstarr

   "Pickups"?  Not sure what you mean there.  On Lionel I used to give the third rail roller pickups a drop of oil to help the roller turn freely, but HO doesn't have that sort of pickup.  HO picks up juice thru the wheels.  They will want cleaning and so will the truck bolsters, and the matching bosses on the frame.  I like Googone for wheel cleaning.  I also use a wire wheel in the Dremel.

Some engines use wipers for electrical pick up. They generally "wipe' the back of a wheelset. This is more common on tender wheels. Some pick ups are wipers that ride on the axle like many of the light kits. These do need cleaning and can be noisey and may require lubrication. Also stops excessive wear of the bronze wiper. An example of this is many of the Rocco engines. Have had the wipers wear right through on many Atlas/ Roccos This is where Conduct-a -lube will work well. For all other I prefer Labelle products as mentioned earlier. I wll need to try synthetic ATF.  I have many to pick from for a "Guinea Pig".

[richg1998]

There is no best, only what works best for you.

I have used the LaBelle stuff for many years.

Below is a link about the Conduct-a -lube.

http://aerocarlubricants.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

Replace GREASE on all gears, counter-gears, shafts, and bolsters. In daily use at Litchfield Station!

Rich

 

[Hamltnblue]

I too use Labelle. For grease I use the stuff with PFTE.

[AntonioFP45]

Just  like to add that for Walthers passenger cars equipped with lighted interiors, Moly Magic (from Hob-E-Lube) is excellent for lubricating the journals of the trucks.  Moly contains graphite, which helps with the electrical conductivity from the trucks to the lighting kits.

Unlike oils and some of the thinner lubricants, Moly won't ooze out down onto the rails.  It also stops the annoying wheel squeaks that dried out journals can emit.