Sorry if this post ends up looking like a reply, I'm kinda new here and still learning the controls.
Either way, I am 17 years old and very much in to model railroading, among other forms of modeling (military, that sort of thing). I personally have noticed it is extremely difficult to locate other people my age in to the hobby, but I do notice they exist. One major contributing factor as to why I am in to this hobby is the support I have received from the members of my local train club. At the same time, it has also been adults who have discouraged me from the hobby. Whether it be in person or over the internet, I have noticed adults seem (to me) overly critical of our mistakes, and tend to not appreciate our skills. I'm not sure as to why this is happening, as all we wish to do is be accepted as another member of the modelling community, but this is hard for us when we are constantly judged by those who themselves started at a young age. One noticable judgement is when adults display completed projects, locomotives, models and only receive praise and a little judgement, but it seems when ever people my age or myself submit something for approval, it is judged harshly and is shunned without any concern. I have to ask myself why this occurs, as sometimes the people who act this way seem threatened by our presence. Either way, I am, and will continue to be, a devout model railroader, and to any young person who is having these same problems, I have a few words of advice:
1) It will ease with age
2) Don't be daunted by the negative
3) What matters most is that at the end of the day, YOU can sit down and be satisfied.
To any adults who still have further question regarding the possible decline, just ask...I'm sure most people, I know I will, will answer any questions.
It isnt always fair to judge by age but I have done it. The club I used to belong to had several younger members (under 21). They were much better than me at building scenery and programing decoders, but they were also the ones that ran trains around the layout at full speed. And when a locomotive derailed and was damaged they usually didn't have the funds to buy owner a new one, if they admitted who did it. I'm sure some of the damage was the result of older members but kids are alway's blamed. I hope you younger folks keep up the hobby, just remember its not a slot car track.
Merc 006: Your post on the "Re: Young People and Model Railroading" thread this morning breaks my cotton-pickin' heart. I find it a sad testament of our society when "older folks" do not give of themselves to others, especially to good-intentioned youth such as yourself. Your text was very well presented, Merc 006, and points well made. You obviously are an intelligent young man, who has found a passion in life and so very much wants to pursue it with vigor, but also with some reassurance, support, and encouragement (please!). How great it is when, as a youth, we often stumble upon an interest that totally occupies our thoughts and actions, probably to forever be a part of us. It need not be modeling, but anything (history, sports, surfing, fishing, genealogy, running, whatever). As a high school coach (FB, BsB, BkB, track) and pretty athletic guy myself (triathlete, marathoner, mountaineer, rock climber, sculler, sailor, etc.), I've worked with folks your age, and think that I know "how you think," "why you act," "what you hope for," etc. I will admit that I would like more young people (and adults) to get outside, at least somewhat. Instead of "No child left behind," let us ensure that there is "No child left indoors." But, whatever it is that has captured your interest deserves the full but honest support of the rest of us. I now coach several college age young men in running, climbing, and even life. Those of us my age often started with a model train, as you are now. But, as in my case, we've perhaps switched to real train travel or whatever, and our train stuff sadly is boxed up unused. My son has no interest. If I knew someone like you in my neighborhood, I'd give them all of my stuff (most 1946 Lionel "O" gauge). There may be some adults who decry the alleged destruction that "kids" make to model trains. Well, "deal with it," adults. It's just a game. My brother drove my Lionel "O" gauge engine off our ping-pong table minimalist track setup several times, but we all lived through it and the locomotive survived quite well, thank you. It irritates the heck out of me to hear that you've been harshly and shabily treated. Give me break, adults! Give a kid a hand.
Merc 006: Your post on the "Re: Young People and Model Railroading" thread this morning breaks my cotton-pickin' heart. I find it a sad testament of our society when "older folks" do not give of themselves to others, especially to good-intentioned youth such as yourself.
Your text was very well presented, Merc 006, and points well made. You obviously are an intelligent young man, who has found a passion in life and so very much wants to pursue it with vigor, but also with some reassurance, support, and encouragement (please!). How great it is when, as a youth, we often stumble upon an interest that totally occupies our thoughts and actions, probably to forever be a part of us. It need not be modeling, but anything (history, sports, surfing, fishing, genealogy, running, whatever).
As a high school coach (FB, BsB, BkB, track) and pretty athletic guy myself (triathlete, marathoner, mountaineer, rock climber, sculler, sailor, etc.), I've worked with folks your age, and think that I know "how you think," "why you act," "what you hope for," etc. I will admit that I would like more young people (and adults) to get outside, at least somewhat. Instead of "No child left behind," let us ensure that there is "No child left indoors." But, whatever it is that has captured your interest deserves the full but honest support of the rest of us. I now coach several college age young men in running, climbing, and even life.
Those of us my age often started with a model train, as you are now. But, as in my case, we've perhaps switched to real train travel or whatever, and our train stuff sadly is boxed up unused. My son has no interest. If I knew someone like you in my neighborhood, I'd give them all of my stuff (most 1946 Lionel "O" gauge).
There may be some adults who decry the alleged destruction that "kids" make to model trains. Well, "deal with it," adults. It's just a game. My brother drove my Lionel "O" gauge engine off our ping-pong table minimalist track setup several times, but we all lived through it and the locomotive survived quite well, thank you.
It irritates the heck out of me to hear that you've been harshly and shabily treated. Give me break, adults! Give a kid a hand.
Merc_006 Sorry if this post ends up looking like a reply, I'm kinda new here and still learning the controls. Either way, I am 17 years old and very much in to model railroading, among other forms of modeling (military, that sort of thing). I personally have noticed it is extremely difficult to locate other people my age in to the hobby, but I do notice they exist. One major contributing factor as to why I am in to this hobby is the support I have received from the members of my local train club. At the same time, it has also been adults who have discouraged me from the hobby. Whether it be in person or over the internet, I have noticed adults seem (to me) overly critical of our mistakes, and tend to not appreciate our skills. I'm not sure as to why this is happening, as all we wish to do is be accepted as another member of the modelling community, but this is hard for us when we are constantly judged by those who themselves started at a young age. One noticable judgement is when adults display completed projects, locomotives, models and only receive praise and a little judgement, but it seems when ever people my age or myself submit something for approval, it is judged harshly and is shunned without any concern. I have to ask myself why this occurs, as sometimes the people who act this way seem threatened by our presence. Either way, I am, and will continue to be, a devout model railroader, and to any young person who is having these same problems, I have a few words of advice: 1) It will ease with age 2) Don't be daunted by the negative 3) What matters most is that at the end of the day, YOU can sit down and be satisfied. To any adults who still have further question regarding the possible decline, just ask...I'm sure most people, I know I will, will answer any questions.
I started model railroading about 41 years ago and spent the first 8 of those years as a teen model railroader. I recall having been "mentored" when I just wanted to show my work. I resented the way other model railroaders (adults) seemed to assume that I was young and therefore needed teaching. Often, their lessons came accross as criticism. My opinion is that we adults should be sensitive to that and be careful not to mentor until there is an indication that our fellow modeler wants some advice.
A suggestion I'll make to youthful modelers is to not put your age out there on page one. I don't see many of the chronologically-gifted bunch listing our ages as part of our signature or in our posts. I want my work to be considered on its own merits, not by whether I got it done in spite of bi-focals, shaking hands, and arthritis. My guess is that you want the same consideration and not to be given special treatment (positive or negative) because of your youth. Fair enough.
Years ago, Model Railroader ran a monthly column titled "Student Fare." Even the title implied that kids "get in for less." I resented that column because I was one of the under 21 qualifiers for the column and I didn't want to "get in for less"; I wanted to be considered as if on a level playing field.
By the way and setting age issues aside - regarding the whole issue of criticism, my opinion is that the only time it is appropriate to give it is when a modeler asks for it. Otherwise, I think the old rule of etiquitte still applies - If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all.
Finally, regarding the decline of the hobby. I don't see it declining; I do see it changing:
It appears to me that the crowds at train shows are growing and about the same proportion of the population is still involved in this hobby. All in all, I think the hobby is quite healthy.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
MisterBeasleyAround hear, the Young Model Railroaders have become an accomplished modular group at most of the local shows. The "grown-up" clubs all seem to have a few younger members as well. Very often, these teenagers are the go-to guys for troubleshooting during show sessions. If they stay with the hobby, or even if they drift off for a few years and return as many of us have, we're in good shape.
You're planning to be at the Greenburg show again, yes?
In my opinion, kids will either be interested in model railroading(or railroading in general) or not. There's not much one can do to influence likes and dislikes on a child or teenager. While hobby shops are closing, this is not because the amount of people in the hobby are dwindling but because most sales have shifted online, and/or to larger retailers who offer discounts. Whether this has any effect on the amount of children in the hobby, I can't say.
I've been the president of the above mentioned youth club for almost 5 years (I joined when I was 12), and a member of the NMRA since I was 13. Both clubs were helpful in promoting the railroading to the younger children. The members of the local NMRA module group were very welcoming to younger members and in assisting them.
In conclusion, there's a lot in the hobby being offered to teens and kids and the decrease in brick-and-mortar hobby shops likely has little effect on this. You just need kids that have an interest in trains, and those will always be around.
Alex
Boy scouts (celebrating its 100th anniversary in 2010, and honored by Union Pacific with a custom decorated locomotive) still promotes its Railroading Merit Badge to youth aged 11 to 17. In 1993, 2,300 Railroading merit badges were awarded, but the number has increased to 6,300 in 2007.
(source - http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/2005_Merit_Badges_Earned_Statistics_-_Rank_for_the_Year)
As a merit badge counselor for Railroading, I've promoted the hobby at merit badge fairs and one of our local clubs offers to host educational group tours to cub scouts (ages 6-10) and boy scouts (11-17) by appointment.
Here's a link to the merit badge requirements - http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Railroading
As a young model railroader, I always find threads like this one rather interesting to read. I'm 20 years old, and nearing the end of my Bachelor's degree, and have been a MRR since I was 8 years old, and a train nut since...well...I don't ever remember not being one!
I had the situation of not having anyone in my family to introduce me to the hobby, or even to trains really...neither my parents nor grandparents were model railroaders, and there was (and still is) noone else in my wider family in the hobby. Apart from my grandfather working some of his young days for CP Rail (which I didn't know about until more recently), there are no railroad connections in the family, or among close friends. So how did I find this hobby? Well, there must have just been something the first time I ever saw a train. I fell in love with Thomas the Tank engine the second I saw it the first time, and have never looked back. All of my earliest drawings (because I loved to draw) were of trains (except a few of school buses and snowplows!). What is quite interesting though is that apart from a tourist steam train (the Hull-Chelsea Wakefield Steam train in Quebec) which I saw once in a while, there were no trains around where I grew up in my earliest years to be exposed to. It wasn't until some years later that we moved to South-east Ontario, and lived just down the street from the CN/VIA main line. But by then I already loved the trains, and was just thrilled to get to see more of them.
For my introduction to model railroading, I must thank both my parents and grandparents. My grandparents knew I loved trains, so they bought one of those old battery-powered plastic-track Christmas trains you could run on the table...no speed control, just an on/off switch. Well, I think I asked to get that train out every single time I was there for years. When I was quite young, I had all of those old die-cast Ertl Thomas the Tank Engine toys, which I loved...and I even had a section of our "playroom" where my dad had set up a counter-top for me to "run" my trains...I suppose a precurser to my later interests!
Anyway, at some point I had discovered the idea of electric trains, and begged my parents for a train set. At Christmas after I turned 8 (since the sets said "for children 8 and up"), my parents gave both me and my brother Bachmann train sets (with a simple oval, and F7, and a couple freight cars)...and that's where it began. We ran those trains in circles on the floor for hours and hours on end. Despite my dad not having any interest in model railroading himself, he helped us put together a plywood table where we could set up the trains to run, and put down a grass-mat and some cheap toy hills and bridges. We had so much fun! He also took me to every train show in the area, and took me to the closest LHS (which was a 40 minute drive away!) at least once a year, where I would drool over the trains...and while the trains remained at the basic set, dad would always get us something new to add to the layout. Switches, bridges, people, etc.
Eventually I had my first job, and every paycheck involved a trip to the LHS (I think I spent every dollar from my first part-time jobs on trains!). As I have developed as a MRR, I have taken over and my dad has slipped out. It was never really his hobby anyway...but he did the best he could to make it possible for me. For that, I am forever grateful. Despite not knowing anything about the trains, he taught me all I know in wood-work, electrical wiring, and so many other skills you need to build a layout.
I was lucky enough to be a part of a small highschool MRR club (not at my school, but at another), and helped work on that little layout and at the annual show hosted there. From that I learned so much of what I know in the hobby. Since then, I have been growing and developing my skills as I go. Last year, I fully detailed my first locomotive. More recently, I fully painted and decaled my first custom locos. I just built my first resin kits, and learned to use an airbrush. There are now so many projects I feel confident to take on.
I do find it disappointing that there seem to be so few young people in the hobby. But I realize from talking to people that there is just a general lack of knowledge, and a lot of misconceptions. Myself, I am a well-adjusted, socially competent and academically successful young man, with many other interests and a happy relationship (with a girl who has actually come to think MRR is pretty cool). I enjoy sports, rock concerts, and the odd party here and there. But that's not the picture many people have of those guys that "play with trains". Few people appreciate just how many facets there are to this hobby, and how diverse and fulfilling it is. For me, it's a way to bring the trains I love into my home.
I'm not sure what the key is for bringing young people into the hobby, but I know there are many ways it can happen. While it might help, you don't necessarily have to have connections to trains or MRRing in the family!
-Tim
Rob - This is a GREAT post. I'm 59 (going on 21!) and have four adult children ( all over 25 yrs. of age ). My lovely wife and I tried to get all of them interested in all sorts of activities and hobbies ( MRing included ). What I found out with my children is that my wife and I gave them the tools to pursue their own interests; to decide for themselves what would be their own "joys of life", as it were. What else I found out is that, in the end, we did a good job. None of them have even a passing interest in MRing (DANG!), however, they are good human beings and DECENT people. My oldest son (31) is a software developer/programmer for Thompson/Reuters in Eagan, MN , my oldest daughter (28) is employed with General Mills in St.Louis Park, MN, as a food biologist/scientist in the snack foods division, my youngest daughter (27) is a K-12/Special Ed. teacher in south central, MN and my youngest son (26) is now a cop in St. Paul, MN. My wife and I are VERY proud of all of them. You can never tell where their interests will take them but you should encourage them to follow same (within reason, of course) and in the end, you will be pleased. Sorry for the long rant. Expose them to everything interesting and they will find their way, hopefully to MRing!
Jimmy
ROUTE ROCK!
As I consider the concerns about getting young people to participate in model railroading it occurs to me that as a hobby, this one really doesn't lend itself to the life-circumstances for most young people. It may not be a question of interest, but issues more basic than that:
Space - Model railroading takes up a lot of space. A small layout covers an area of 15-20 square feet and in a typical kid's room that's a healthy percentage.
Mess - If the kid's room is carpteted, a hobby including paint, plaster, etc. may not be a realistic option.
Cost - a lot of adults complain about model railroading prices; consider how it must be to finance a model railroad by mowing lawns, shoveling, walks, and cooking at the local fast-food joint.
Portability (lack there-of) - So, a young model railroader overcomes all of the above and builds a layout. After college, it's time to strike out on his/her own. Hauling even a small layout from town to town and apartment to apartment is not impossible, but it is difficult.
If you add it all up, our hobby really doesn't fit a young person's typical circumstances very well; no wonder they do other things.
My opinion is that the true "young" model railroaders are mostly in their late thirties/early forties and many discover or re-discover the hobby when they "help" their kids build a layout. At the early middle-aged stage of life, most of the issues above are no longer road-blocks (maybe speed-bumps). By that time many of us have enough financial stability/job stability and a large enough home that we can really get into the hobby; then many of us stay in it for the rest of our lives.
You'll note that I did not indicate that these are universal facts. There are plenty of exceptions, but I think most young people face the challenges that I've described and that makes our hobby a hard thing to integrate into their lives. I was a youthful model railroader and this is how I dealt with the obsticles.
Space - my layouts were small, shelf-type, and n-scale. Not so much because it is what I wanted, but because it was what I could find space and funds for.
Mess - When it was time to re-carpet my room, I asked for vinyl tile and I got it. Still, I was expected to clean up spills and exercise caution in terms of mess.
Cost - I kept it small and did more scratch-building than kit building or RTR. A tight hobby budget can make you a better modeler - I learned to hand-lay N-scale track mostly because it cost less to do so. Yes, I had a job, but I was also saving and then paying for college.
Portability - I finished college and it was time to go start my career. I gave my layout away to a 14 year old budding model railroader. Then I was out of the hobby for 25 years (hello Space Program; see ya later, trains).
I really think my story is fairly typical, and it illustrates the reason that the "youth" of our hobby are mostly thirty/forty - somethings.
Merc_006 Either way, I am 17 years old and very much in to model railroading, among other forms of modeling (military, that sort of thing)
Either way, I am 17 years old and very much in to model railroading, among other forms of modeling (military, that sort of thing)
I am 22, and had similar experience but what matters the most - fascination in trains. Being harsh with - may discourage from modeling but unlikely to alter interest.
Merc_006 One major contributing factor as to why I am in to this hobby is the support I have received from the members of my local train club. At the same time, it has also been adults who have discouraged me from the hobby. Whether it be in person or over the internet, I have noticed adults seem (to me) overly critical of our mistakes, and tend to not appreciate our skills.
One major contributing factor as to why I am in to this hobby is the support I have received from the members of my local train club. At the same time, it has also been adults who have discouraged me from the hobby. Whether it be in person or over the internet, I have noticed adults seem (to me) overly critical of our mistakes, and tend to not appreciate our skills.
Exactly: I got encouragement from some people and discouragement from others within same club. This is my idea that got criticized - bringing in the "natural" clickety into the scene. By natural I mean avoiding recorded loops since track varies even on the same route. Different sounds on turnouts vs mainline track or jointed track, sometimes jointed changes to welded on the same route.
This is the most successful video: https://youtu.be/jLt6N1Br01k?t=89
This is the most successful part of long experiment on what I attempted to be "welded" track but due to flexibility and no fixed place to attach it to, joints expanded even within a single train run. https://youtu.be/ee9ZfTjyS1U?t=928
I hope you will understand me, given experiencing same situation and at least here I wont be criticized for my ideas, although I agree, some of them may be insane.
But I hope you will agree: the bottom line - your layout, your rules and it should be built to your liking, not the common stereotype.
Oh look another "The Hobby Is Dieing" thread. How novel. *Minor poking there...don't worry it's all in good jest.*Why are local hobby stores dieing? Because lowest price wins. And if you aren't on the internet and a large supplier like MB Klein, or Train world, or Factory Direct, you have a harder time competing. As my uncle says who runs a hobby shop, "It's all about volume. No one cares about support." So you lower your price to compete and sell more. Kind of a win for us. Kind of a loss for us. (Depends on how you look at it.) But I still visit my local hobby shop (White Rose) for most stuff.Now as to kids, I will admit it's hard to compete with electronic gadgets. They are the baby sitters of the 21st century. My oldest (8) likes uber fast passenger trains, but it's a passive interest. My youngest however (4) is a TRAIN NUT. He rails the engines and cars, and throws the switches. He started with wooden thomas, and he then went to dad's layout. He plays at least an hour a day on the layout I recently started building for him. He also loves visiting the Pennsy RR museum and their kids room. He likes it because it's dad time. He also likes putting things on the tracks to see who wins....the cars on the track or the train. I don't tell him "No" I just let him run them with a cheap Bachmann FT unit. So the point of this story...why did one take to trains, and the other didn't? Well the second I more openly invited into my train room and let him run trains the way he wanted. I also sat and played Thomas with him, making silly sounds like "You have created confusion and delay" "Oh the indignity" and "Whooot Whoooot"Kids love their parents attention. If you give them your time, they are more likely to love the things you do. Be it soccer, baseball, football, cars, or trains.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I see this come up a lot and I have fun responding, mainly because I am 15 years old. I have done a lot about this to. I started a model railroad club at my middle school and we built a model railroad. Then this past July I gave a clinic at the NMRA convention in Indy on youth in the hobby. I am likely doing it again at the Midwest Regional in April. I had many people attend and two magazine editors came by (no kalmbach though) It was a great time and I brought along many ideas that I hope were used elsewhere. So those that disagree I disagree with you I would say the youth is going strong.
Rob
Well done with your son and his friends ! That is a great way to get their interest in the hobby.
The NMRA has a program they do with the Boyscots. I think they can earn a badge. I have LONG advocated that the hobby make some changes. One thing they can do is provide support in school systems clubs. Encourage kids in clubs in schools. Be more public with public events. Like providing a float or be in a home show.....There are all kinds of ways teh hobby can be promoted. But the vision is lacking. Where there in no vision the hobby dies.
I am sixteen years old. I am building a 9x8 foot layout. None of my ancestors were model railroaders, or real railroaders. No one I knew when I was young had a layout. My first influences were Strasburg, PA, where Strasburg RR and the Choo-Choo barn are located.
my parents bought us children a G scale set, an HO scale set, and some toy trains. When I was 10, my parents bought me Bachmann Thoroughbred NS set. I then expanded it with a jackpot of second-hand equipment.
My point is that there are still 1st-generation modelers. I am one and one of my friends is also. There was little influence, and no one was trying to make us MR's. I still can't really figure out why I am a modeler.
I'm a'workin on the railroad.
Sheldon Beiler None of my ancestors were model railroaders, or real railroaders. No one I knew when I was young had a layout.
None of my ancestors were model railroaders, or real railroaders. No one I knew when I was young had a layout.
Same, except my first influences were the legendary Soviet train ER2. Ironically produced in excess of 2500 consists, 10% of them operate today from original number and by this time no professional true-scale model made. Its powerful DC motor sound captivated me from childhood. Now I found out this is one of the heaviest passenger multiple unit in the world, where motorized car reaches about 60t or 132000lbs (not sure how heavy US diesel or electric multiple units existed though) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRFGxnzmgxg heard from 0:15 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKy0rl1TmxY This was so pleasant for my musical ears (I also play piano by this time).
Now I even aside from musical education plan to establish a model train company that specializes on the trains I saw in my childhood. Very few at this point make Eastern European trains like Polish, and none - Soviet. I think I will fill this niche with negligible competition.
At this point I care not as much about profit but about saving heritage that is about to be in the void of history if someone does not intervene. In the course of political turmoil history gets erased very fast if someone caring does not save it.
Don - this thread is from 7 years ago, it just got resurrected.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
It's challenging to get kids interested in trains, especially these days kids aren't as open minded as they were 15 years ago that and there's less of them, so it's definitely a gamble.
rrinker Don - this thread is from 7 years ago, it just got resurrected. --Randy
It's "Return Of The Living Dead" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wylpeAXYcBQ meets "Reefer Madness" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjHOBJzhb0 meets "Village Of The Damned" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AUBlW5EWnI .
Andre
While on the topic of bringing back the dead how about MRR brings back student fare being 15 I would love to see that return.
trainmaster247 While on the topic of bringing back the dead how about MRR brings back student fare being 15 I would love to see that return.
That was a neat column. It encouraged younger modelers to try things without being overly critical. I recall many of them were actually quite accomplished and had some nice work to their names.
Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.
Bundy74 trainmaster247 While on the topic of bringing back the dead how about MRR brings back student fare being 15 I would love to see that return. That was a neat column. It encouraged younger modelers to try things without being overly critical. I recall many of them were actually quite accomplished and had some nice work to their names.
So I have seen I picked up a few free old issues at the convention in Indy and loved reading through them.