Drywall, masonite, or any other material can be bent to whatever radius you desire even down to about 8" if you do it correctly. Just grabbing the sheet and forcing it won't work. How do you think all those curved walls in high end housing are made? The secret is to score the back with a utility knife for an inside curve. The tighter the curve the more score marks you need (vertically parallel to each other). For an outside curve the score marks are on the outside of the sheet. Then use joint compound to smooth everything and sand it. I use 1/8" paneling for my ballast board in HO. a piece with a damaged corner can be had for a couple of dollars. I rip it in 1" wide pieces 8' long giving me roughly 47 pieces or 376'. Then I use the same principal and stack them up on edge and cut slots about every 1/2" about 3/4" deep with a radial arm saw. It will easily bend below a 30" radius curve
jwhittendoctorwayne as well as a sometimes-storage place for the line's doodlebug, the "Bee". Now that's a really good idea that gives it some life! Good plan.
doctorwayne as well as a sometimes-storage place for the line's doodlebug, the "Bee".
as well as a sometimes-storage place for the line's doodlebug, the "Bee".
Now that's a really good idea that gives it some life! Good plan.
That track is the caboose/wreck train/ snowplow/etc. track, John. Here's a shot with the car shop included - it's beyond the coaling tower, and to the left, almost at the edge of the layout.
Its position so close to the edge makes it difficult to get more than a small part of it in the frame when photographing from the aisle. However, from the air it's a little easier: that's it at right, with the rear doors open.
doctorwayneThe scale test cars are used as an operational feature and must be moved by only one coupler - in other words, behind the caboose. On a through train, this would pose little problem. However, almost all trains are required to switch the various towns through which they pass, and this can generate a lot of extra moves to ensure that the rules are followed. There's a story HERE which tells of such a train, although none of the photos will be visible unless you're a Member of that Forum.
The scale test cars are used as an operational feature and must be moved by only one coupler - in other words, behind the caboose. On a through train, this would pose little problem. However, almost all trains are required to switch the various towns through which they pass, and this can generate a lot of extra moves to ensure that the rules are followed. There's a story HERE which tells of such a train, although none of the photos will be visible unless you're a Member of that Forum.
jwhitten I *was* able to see the photos... !!! Excellent work, both pictures and story. I loved every moment. It was very easy to fall into the scene and be a first-hand spectator from your photos and telling.What is the water, btw? Also, I don't think the water looked as good from the eye-level view. The aerial shot though was beautiful. The "doctored" image with the water and grass extended as also interesting, and definitely filled-out the view considerably.Your modeling ability is superb!
I *was* able to see the photos... !!! Excellent work, both pictures and story. I loved every moment. It was very easy to fall into the scene and be a first-hand spectator from your photos and telling.
What is the water, btw? Also, I don't think the water looked as good from the eye-level view. The aerial shot though was beautiful. The "doctored" image with the water and grass extended as also interesting, and definitely filled-out the view considerably.
Your modeling ability is superb!
Thanks, John, although I'm unsure as to which water you're referring: the lake or the muddy river? All of the water was done with Durabond patching plaster, then painted with latex house paint and given three coats of water-based high gloss urethane. I am surprised that you were able to see the photos, although I am pleased, as I think that they complement the story.
jwhitten A question about your turntable-- why did you choose green ground foam (grass) for inside the pit? Have you seen that somewhere before? Most of the ones I've seen have been rocky, full of weeds and whatnot and, you know, just dirty. Granted I'm nowhere near an expert on Turntable-pitothology or anything, just curious though about your inspiration.
A question about your turntable-- why did you choose green ground foam (grass) for inside the pit? Have you seen that somewhere before? Most of the ones I've seen have been rocky, full of weeds and whatnot and, you know, just dirty. Granted I'm nowhere near an expert on Turntable-pitothology or anything, just curious though about your inspiration.
That's the young weeds, John, before they've grown. I may add some taller ones eventually, and of course you're right in saying that it should be dirtier. In fact, very little of the railroad's "fixed plant" has been weathered much at all - only that little which was included when stuff was first painted. I do plan on weathering the right-of-way, and the turntable pit will be included. Before I go any further with the latter, though, I want to add a couple of cast iron catch basin grates in the floor of the pit. Because of the high snowfall in this area of the province, the entire shop complex will be furnished with steam from the powerplant just across the tracks, which will keep the coal and sand flowing in the tower, help to thaw coal frozen in hoppers and, of course, heat the buildings and supply "house steam" for locos on layover. A couple of pipes under the turntable pit will make short work of any snow drifts. (Otherwise, the LPBs would have to shovel it all out by-hand, and in the close confines of the narrow layout, the only place for them to throw it would be over the edge of the layout. I'd get wet feet every time I walked by!)
John, there's no need to fear weathering or scenery - most of it, at least the way I do it, is seat-of-the-pants technology. I read-up on it a bit, then just jump right in. If it turns out lousy, tear it out and try again. (Of course, pick an area on which to try it - not the entire layout in one attempt.)
An awful lot of layouts never get scenery because many people are afraid to "just do it". And for scenery, you could just as easily substitute "weather cars and locos", "lay track", or any other task that keeps layout construction from moving forward. If something one tries doesn't turn out as hoped, all you've really lost is the time thus spent. Even then, you've learned something, so it's not a total write-off. Simply try again. Even when you get the results which you wanted, you may find, perhaps ten years from now, that your satisfaction with that early success has dimmed, and you'll want to re-do it. That's a good indication that your skills (and your self confidence) have grown.
Wayne
doctorwayneThat track is the caboose/wreck train/ snowplow/etc. track, John. Here's a shot with the car shop included - it's beyond the coaling tower, and to the left, almost at the edge of the layout. Its position so close to the edge makes it difficult to get more than a small part of it in the frame when photographing from the aisle. However, from the air it's a little easier: that's it at right, with the rear doors open.
Oh, I see. I misunderstood which bldg you were talking about.
doctorwayne There's a story HERE which tells of such a train, although none of the photos will be visible unless you're a Member of that Forum.
jwhitten I *was* able to see the photos... !!!
doctorwayne I am surprised that you were able to see the photos, although I am pleased, as I think that they complement the story.
The answer is simple, I am a member of that forum (Thanks to you actually)
jwhitten What is the water, btw? Also, I don't think the water looked as good from the eye-level view. The aerial shot though was beautiful. The "doctored" image with the water and grass extended as also interesting, and definitely filled-out the view considerably.
doctorwayne Thanks, John, although I'm unsure as to which water you're referring: the lake or the muddy river? All of the water was done with Durabond patching plaster, then painted with latex house paint and given three coats of water-based high gloss urethane.
The lake. It looks great from the air, but one of your "eye-level" shots either in the story or in the subsequent discussion (don't recall now which) showed it at "eye level" (your decription) and it was harder to tell it was water. Could have just been the way the lights or camera flash (if you used it) was hitting the scene too. Your river is gorgeous and I've seen a lot of pictures you've posted of that from all kinds of angles.
doctorwayne That's the young weeds, John, before they've grown.
Heheheh -- you know, even as I was asking the question I just knew that was gonna be your answer!
doctorwayne I may add some taller ones eventually, and of course you're right in saying that it should be dirtier. In fact, very little of the railroad's "fixed plant" has been weathered much at all - only that little which was included when stuff was first painted. I do plan on weathering the right-of-way, and the turntable pit will be included. Before I go any further with the latter, though, I want to add a couple of cast iron catch basin grates in the floor of the pit. Because of the high snowfall in this area of the province, the entire shop complex will be furnished with steam from the powerplant just across the tracks, which will keep the coal and sand flowing in the tower, help to thaw coal frozen in hoppers and, of course, heat the buildings and supply "house steam" for locos on layover. A couple of pipes under the turntable pit will make short work of any snow drifts. (Otherwise, the LPBs would have to shovel it all out by-hand, and in the close confines of the narrow layout, the only place for them to throw it would be over the edge of the layout. I'd get wet feet every time I walked by!)
I like the idea of the grates and the "house steam" running under the turntable. They would also help promote plant growth as well, wouldn't they? Is that a common thing, btw? Running steam under the turntable (in regions where it can get cold, I would assume). For that matter is "house steam" a regular thing as well? There's just so many little details and stuff I'm constantly finding out about.
doctorwayne John, there's no need to fear weathering or scenery - most of it, at least the way I do it, is seat-of-the-pants technology. I read-up on it a bit, then just jump right in. If it turns out lousy, tear it out and try again. (Of course, pick an area on which to try it - not the entire layout in one attempt.)
I don't really "fear" it, more like anticipating it with a little trepidation since I've never done it before. The backdrop though is a different story. I *might* be able to pull off painting a big section of wall blue, possibly even with a gradient.... and its not completely out of the realm of possibility I might even be able to pull off a believable cloud or two-- but that's the whole extent of my artistic ability. Not that I'm unwilling to try or learn new things, but I'm not all that artistically-adept.
I do think I will be able to succeed at the terraforming though. Except maybe for one thing-- I am in awe of you people who are able to discern and *apply* the subtle colors and aspects of nature and the big outdoors. I can *see* it with my eyes, and even imagine it in my head, but I have never been able to figure out how to apply it with my hands, in any medium.
doctorwayne An awful lot of layouts never get scenery because many people are afraid to "just do it". And for scenery, you could just as easily substitute "weather cars and locos", "lay track", or any other task that keeps layout construction from moving forward. If something one tries doesn't turn out as hoped, all you've really lost is the time thus spent. Even then, you've learned something, so it's not a total write-off. Simply try again. Even when you get the results which you wanted, you may find, perhaps ten years from now, that your satisfaction with that early success has dimmed, and you'll want to re-do it. That's a good indication that your skills (and your self confidence) have grown.Wayne
Painting rolling stock is another point of anxiety. But I have picked-up a bunch of old cars and locomotive shells for the express purpose of learning with. I have used the airbrush on one or two previous occasions (for non RR-related stuff) but cannot say I have mastered it. My biggest achievement thus far is being able to keep it pointed at the workpiece... mostly.
I think I have figured out the answer to my peninsula problem too-- mostly anyway, some minor jiggling left to do, but overall I figured out what to do yesterday.
-- I wanted to keep the visible climb if possible
-- I wanted to preserve the real-estate around the end-loop as much as possible
-- I wanted to achieve as much depth (of scene) along the peninsula as possible, particularly in the end-loop
-- I wanted the scenery & industry around the loop to be more flexible than just dedicated to "gaining elevation"
With those general parameters I looked at everything with one final critical eye and came up with what I think is an elegant set of compromises-- which don't even feel or seem like compromises at all actually...
The inner side of the peninsula is a 180-degree turnback with a really narrow aisle. I had been forcing myself to keep it at 30 inches but I really wanted it to be narrower but didn't want to cramp anybody working the yard. The bit of benchwork across the way from it (along the wall) is also very narrow-- just as narrow as I dared make it (about 14 inches) and still hope to have a decent (double-tracked) curve coming into it. I had originally intended to use the inside of the peninsula as a long yard with a town in the vicinity of the main loop, and the outside for climbing / gaining elevation.
Then it occurred to me to essentially switch the purposes of the inside and outside of the peninsula-- to put the climb on the inside and the yard on the outside. I couldn't figure out quite how to make it work until it also occurred to me to angle the benchwork along the wall (just before the turnback) and then also angle / curve the uprights (think framed-wall w/o drywall cover) for the peninsula to match, which resulted in a much shallower curve for the peninsula. The portion along the wall I widened at the top, out to about 20 inches from the wall which gives me a lot more room to work in the double-tracked curve into that section which leads to the turnback-- so that was an improvement. Then I adjusted the joists along the wall of the peninsula so there was more length on the outside than the inside-- essentially "flipping them around", though there was some additional adjustment / improvement.The shift in purpose also means I can begin my climb *before* the turnback which is really nice since I didn't know exactly what I was going to put there anyway it was so narrow.
I modeled a straight 2% climb along the inside and was only a few inches from the target height when I reached the loop at the end of the peninsula. I measured it all out carefully and I now have my choice, I can either (a) go hidden [double-tracked] at about 54 inches in diameter; or (b) go visible at up to 96 inches-- and whichever one I choose, it will only take about a quarter to a half (depending on diameter) of loop to finish the climb which means that I will end up with two whole complete decks around the loop unencumbered (can do with what I want) *PLUS* a good-sized portion reaching back to the inside loop that I never anticipated (free, bonus space!) and the outside of the peninsula is now 24 inches deep at the *shallowest* point and gets deeper as it moves out toward either end (due to the curve in the wall of the peninsula).
Moreover the whole top deck around the outside of the peninsula is essentially the same depth (although for aesthetics I artificially limit all of the upper decks to about 4-5 inches less than the depth of the lower deck).
Finally it gives me a whole another "leg" to the geography of the railroad-- I'm thinking it will be the connection to "Shippensburg PA"-- a slight stretch but it will work itself out okay in the end due to some hidden trackage. It won't appear back out on the layout until the right time and place (taking it back to meet up at "Carlisle"). This will permit me to interchange visibly with the N&W and/or C&O. I'm a long-time fan of the N&W so that's a major win for me !!
And, now I have a whole deep deck to work out the approach to the bridge across the exterior door to the "bottom" part of the room. That had always been a difficult spot up until now-- and another bonus-- since the bridge is curved (about a 65-70 inch arc), and the end of the peninsula (at the outside of the turnback-- we're at the opposite end now) is similarly curved, the hinge for the bridge can be on the same side as the peninsula. And when it opens (whenever it needs to open) it will fit nicely in the niche created by the deeper deck around the outside of the peninsula (remember the upper deck is shallower than the lower deck, but both decks are deeper than they were previously-- were 10 inches, now 20-24 inches or more).
*AND* it gets even better. Now that I've switched the inside of the peninsula to climbing for elevation, I don't really *need* to get in there anymore (as an aisle) so the aisle can get narrower which allows me to have actually *more* depth in the decks, *AND* I can put a loop around to/from the under-deck staging. It cuts into the inside aisle, but who cares :-) So the concept even improves the staging possibilities considerably. It goes from being single-ended staging to dual-ended staging.
One final benefit is that it greatly improves the aesthetics when you walk into the room and see the layout for the first time-- before it would have just been a climb / sneak-around to the bridge across the door. Now its a full-depth scenic expanse-- I can put anything I want there without concern to the climb since I'm already at the right elevation.
So just a little bit of rethinking the design and location of a few items has lead to an enormous breakthrough in possibilities, stronger raison d'être for the railroad, considerable additional space, better staging-- in fact I can't think of anything I really *lose*, except maybe the feeling that there oughta be a yard on the inside of the peninsula-- which is now only moved around to the outside (and in fact, there will now be *two* yards on the outside :-) which is good anyway because I kept thinking the towns were too close together.
Obviously, the shortest distance between two points isn't always a straight line, at least when non-linear thinking is involved. I'm glad that you've worked out the solution, John, but a sketch (doesn't need to be detailed) would help me better envision it. There's no real rush, though: someone once asked me for a drawing of my trackplan and, two years later, I posted that crummy drawing of my layout room. Even though I eventually got a scanner, I still haven't posted a trackplan - I'd have to create one, 'cause I didn't have one when the layout was built.
I'm not sure how common "house steam" was, but my favourite prototype, the TH&B, was an early proponent of it (they were the first road in Canada to employ "direct steaming" for locomotives). I need to add the overhead pipes to my servicing area, and, of course, the downcomers for the individual facilities.
doctorwayneObviously, the shortest distance between two points isn't always a straight line, at least when non-linear thinking is involved. I'm glad that you've worked out the solution, John, but a sketch (doesn't need to be detailed) would help me better envision it. There's no real rush, though: someone once asked me for a drawing of my trackplan and, two years later, I posted that crummy drawing of my layout room. Even though I eventually got a scanner, I still haven't posted a trackplan - I'd have to create one, 'cause I didn't have one when the layout was built. I'm not sure how common "house steam" was, but my favourite prototype, the TH&B, was an early proponent of it (they were the first road in Canada to employ "direct steaming" for locomotives). I need to add the overhead pipes to my servicing area, and, of course, the downcomers for the individual facilities. Wayne
Yeah, I know, after awhile it gets pretty convoluted doesn't it? :)
I've got some stuff I can post-- just gotta find some time to get it done. And then hopefully between tonight and tomorrow I'll have the peninsula built-- or mostly built (fingers crossed)-- so I can just take a picture and post it.
I have a long weekend coming up next week and I am extremely hopeful (though not holding my breath) that I can start laying some track, even if its only a piece or two, on the layout. I am very ready to get to the next stage.
I still need to finish adding the benchwork for the "bottom" and "right-side" portions, but I think that will go pretty quick with double-track shelf standards and my wooden arm modification. I've got that down to a set of jigs that helps it go pretty quick.